Glaser Safety Slugs/MagSafe

[mountaindrew]

I always thought that the purpose of shooting in self defense was to stop the threat, i.e. incapacitate the attacker. Not to make sure he dies later in the hospital. When you survive, how are you gonna look on the witness stand at your wrongful death trial: " Yes Your Honor, that is right. I wanted to be sure that whomever I shot would be sure to die a long horible death, even after I was safe at home"
I just want to save myself and my loved ones. I dont want ti kill anyone.I will shoot antone who puts me or my family in jeopardy, but if we sit around talking about killing people ( not about self defence ) doesn't that make us, like uhhh... potential killers? Just my thoughts.

 

[Plinkerton]

I realize this thread has been cooling off for a week or so, but I have some questions.

I live in an apartment complex, and must put overpenetration into my first priority.

I have a 4" 686.

Do the Glaser's actually help with overpenetration issues? They seem to be powerful enough to, at the very least, DETER someone. I don't need to blow a hole in them, just stop them.

I am really concerned about overpenetration, because, If I were to shoot someone in my house, I would most likely be shooting them, while the common wall of my apartment was behind them. I can't have bullets flying thru the wall, and hitting my neighbor, or her daughter.

Are Glaser's a good choice? Or should I just go with a lighter weight .38 of some sort?

Thanks a lot.
-Plink-

 

[strambo]

Plinkerton,

The Glaser silver line uses bigger shot inside so it should have better penetration in the target. 3 Glaser silvers followed by 3 standard HPs might be a good bet. If the Glasers don't finish the job, the HPs should (or mabey nothing will!) and you're first shot is probably the most likely one to miss. Speers new 135gr Gold Dot snub load would be good too...hopefully it wouldn't have a lot of energy left after going through the wall.

 

[Plinkerton]

One more question I forgot to ask.

In regards to HP's, is a lighter bullet better as to not overpenetrate? I realize the lighter bullet will probably have a higher velocity, but will the penetration be less?

Also, with the Glaser's should I be using .38 special+p's or .357 mags?

Also, would the Silvers have the posibility of more overpenetration than the blues? I gotta pick the one with the least amount.

Thanks again,
-Plink-

 

[Plinkerton]

Hmm. I just read a list of failures from the Glaser slugs. Many due to insufficient penetration.

I really have to consider the problem of overpenetration, but I do actually want the round to cause some damage!

Are the silvers significantly better than the blues?

Thanks again.

 

[JPM70535]

I had the priveledge of meeting Jack ( J.D. ) Cannon many years ago when I was living in Louisiana. What stands out most vividly was the dog who would lie on the floor watching every move made by anyone in close proximity to his master. Common sense dictated that any agressive movement towards J,D. would have resulted in an encounter with that Canine on a far too persoal level. Over the course of time I heard him relate stories about the development of the Glaser while he was operating as a mercenary on the African Continent. IIRC this was during the Mau Mau uprisings. He told of testing his loads on Human targets, I can't verify the veracity of this statement, but listening to him and watching the way he was always in condition Red, eyes constantly scanning the room for anything amiss, I had no trouble believing every word. When he described taking time to measure the wound dimensions on the bodies of the ones he dispatched.

As a disclaimer, I have to add that these were the stories he told, whether or not they were the whole truth, I cant say, but I for one believed them all.

 

[BluesBear]

The Glaser Silver has bigger shot but less of it than the Glaser Blue.
The velocities are the same as are the total projectile weights.

I don't think either would have much energy left (if any) after encountering two layers of wall board. The first two rounds in my house guns are Glasers. If I lived in a warmer climate where the chance of an intruder wearing a heavy jacket were less I'd load 3 Glasers.

Regarding standard Hollow Points, the lighter wight bullets usually have more muzzle velocity but a lighter weight bullet is easier to slow down.
I can throw a tennis ball faster than I can throw a brick. But at 20 feet which would do the most damage?

 

[carpettbaggerr]

Hmm. I just read a list of failures from the Glaser slugs.

Where did you find this list?

 

[Plinkerton]

Thanks Blues.

Shootings with Glasers

I suppose some of this could be heresay, but, some of "failures" aren't something I'd like to have happen to a BG when I need him stopped.

 

[BluesBear]

From reading that link it seems that most of the failures came from shots entering the body from the side. Most self defense shootings are frontal shot and this is where the Glaser seems to "shine".

An arm hit by a Glaser is pretty much FUBR even though the torso is undamaged. This is why I never load 100% Glaser.

Also that link refers several times to the no longer produced flat nose Glasers. All Glasers in the recent past have had round noses and seem to have better initial penetration. In fact I guess I haven't seen a FN Glaser in over 10 years.

The oldest Glasers I have in my "stash" are some round nosed .44 Magnums that actually have the dark gray tips (even though they were called "Blue") like they used right before introducing the "Silver". Yes, some of the original "Blue" Glasers were Gray. I bought 10 packs from Gary Roman in Louisville in the early 90s, 7 packs were gray and 3 were blue. All were marked Blue.

 

[Plinkerton]

OVerall, they seem to be decent rounds. I will definitely be buying some and keep a few loaded with some HP's.

 

[444]

"I suppose some of this could be heresay, but, some of "failures" aren't something I'd like to have happen to a BG when I need him stopped."

I don't have an ax to grind here, and I honestly didn't go to the link and read the stuff there, but you can put together a long list of "failures" with any ammunition be it HP, SP, FMJ, rifle, handgun, or shotgun. It is simply a matter of looking at enough shootings: there will be failures to stop somewhere, some time no matter what you are using.

 

[Plinkerton]

Okay 444. I agree with you about that. But, when I am using a round that seems somewhat "drastically" different than "standard" rounds, I will definitely be more picky, and more critical of it, until it has "proven" itself.

Many of the "failures" that were noted, seemed to have something to do with penetration issues. Since I have never used Glasers, I was curious if they were completely a gimmick, and if the light penetration made them somewhat "useless", and possibly dangerous in certain situations.

I would imagine that Glasers are used less often than standard rounds, so reading a bunch of "failures" about it, is going to spark my interest faster. If they are being used less, and having many "failures", I have to decide if I want to use them or not, and possibly trust my life with them.

Overall though, they seem like they would fit the bill perfectly in my case.

 

[444]

Right, you make a good point.
I see them as serving a niche and they seem to be just the ticket for what you describe.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

GeorgeH writes:

My life, my choice.

Your life, your choice.

I'm not here to proselytize, just to participate in a discussion.

Plinkerton writes:

I am really concerned about overpenetration, because, If I were to shoot someone in my house, I would most likely be shooting them, while the common wall of my apartment was behind them. I can't have bullets flying thru the wall, and hitting my neighbor, or her daughter.

I suggest you retire the 686 for home defense, buy yourself a shotgun and load it with birdshot. Glaser isn't designed to fragment in walls. It has greater wall penetating potential than birdshot. Anyone who loads a handgun with Glaser and expects it to fragment in sheet rock is in for a surprise.

BluesBear writes:

Most self defense shootings are frontal shot and this is where the Glaser seems to "shine".

I'm unaware of any data to support the claim that "most self-defense shootings are frontal". This is pure speculation. If we're gonna play the odds, why put bullets in your gun at all since "most self-defense uses of a firearm don't require firing a shot"? (Just playing Devil's Advocate here.) Plan for the worst, hope for the best.

 

[444]

"I'm unaware of any data to support the claim that "most self-defense shootings are frontal". "

I have no data to support it either, but it only stands to reason. As private citizens, we use a firearm to protect ourselves from an immediate threat of deadly force. This usually results in the person facing us to be an immediate threat.

 

[Plinkerton]

Shawn, I have a shotgun, and it most likely would be my first choice, but unfortunately, my dad uses it to keep at his house. So, I'm "stuck" with the 686.

 

[Shawn Dodson]

444 writes:

This usually results in the person facing us to be an immediate threat.

I don't know about that. People move a lot, changing the angle of their body. A Seattle police SWAT team once shot a man who was attacking them head-on with a sword. Just as they fired, he turned and was shot several times in the back, which created A LOT of controversy.

The chance that an arm will get in the way of a frontal shot is very real and has already been mentioned. I've seen more than one X-ray of a Glaser that hit an arm and didn't exit.

Then there's the chance one might have to come to the aid of a family member.

I'm not clairvoyant. I'm unable to predict the circumstances of any future attack directed at me or a family member.

Plinkerton:

Seems like you and your dad should trade. If he lives in a house and you an apartment, perhaps you should both reevaluate your equipment needs.

Cheers!

 

[Alan Fud]

Would these be a good choice against wild animals (not for hunting but for self defense situations ... such as encountering a coyote or a wolf or rabbid dog while hiking or something) instead of regular hollowpoints?

 

[priv8ter]

Blast from the past

I was doing a search for magsafes, and found this old thread, with question remaining unanswered, so, allow me to dig this up.

Alan, I don't think that a frangible type ammo would be something I would want to use against a four-legged threat. Coyotes, maybe. But when you figure in Wolf's and Rabbid Dogs, like you asked...well, I want something that is going to pentrate deeply, and break as many bones as possible on the way in.

Since you mentioned 'hiking or something' also, I wouldn't even think of frangibles in bear or cougar country.

Four-legged animals are not like us two-legged ones. Assuming drugs aren't involved, I think the pain and shock of being shot, even with non-ideal pentration, is going to stop a lot high percentage of the threats against you. But, like I said...animls react different. They don't seem as affected by shock as we are.

Hopefully, you wren't eaten by a rabbid dogs while waiting for a responce to this thread!

greg

 

[Newguy1]

I worked as a Medic (MTA) for the California Department of Corrections in from 1994-2000. When I first started we used HK 94 9mm Carbines (before spare parts became to hard to get because of the AWB). I was first responder to several inmates who were shot with Glasers. I can remember two cases pretty well. One was a lower abdominal shot, the other was a hit to the foot. In both case the inmate lived, but the guy who was "gut shot" barely lived.

I liked the Glasers because after the department got rid of the HK 94, they started using Mini-14 with FMJ rounds. The FMJ rounds bounced like crazy when shot in a concrete building.

 

[The_Antibubba]

What about the Magsafes?

Most of the talk in this thread is about the Glaser. Who's had experience with the MagSafes? The nose cavity seems very wide-has anyone had a failure to feed with these?

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Most self defense shootings are frontal shot

I agree with Shawn that this is an uncertain assumption at best.

 

[c_yeager]

I liked the Glasers because after the department got rid of the HK 94, they started using Mini-14 with FMJ rounds. The FMJ rounds bounced like crazy when shot in a concrete building.

You guys use long guns INSIDE the prison?!?!

 

[Newguy1]

Yep... the control booths had M-14, 37mm Gas Guns and HK94s. The floor officers only carried PR24 Batons. As a MTA I didn't carry anything other than keys and a radio.