glock .40 kaboom question

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cameramonkey

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Does anyone know which .40 caliber model of the glock has the most kaboom issues? I was just wondering if the compacts or the fullsize models were more prone to the issue or if it was all entirely ammo related. Maybe there's a trend in frame size in relation to kaboom occurance and that could be part of the issue. Just a thought...... this isn't a flame. I'm actually considering one ....(now ducking and running from die hard 1911 fans ;) ). I also like the Springfield XD but was wondering if it had any kaboom problems....
 
All of the .40 S&W (G22/23/27/35) have a history of "kabooms." It is not limited to one particular. No it is not always ammo-related. It happens factory new commercial ammo from major manufacturers. So, no, it is not reload or lead bullet issue. So, far as I know, the XD40 does not seemed plagued with the kaboom issue that haunts the Glock .40 S&Ws.
 
It's not a model issue.

It's related to several things.

1. Glocks don't tolerate lead bullets well due to the rifling method used. Using lead bullets can cause a dangerous increase chamber pressures during firing.

2. .40 S&W ammunition is very sensitive to bullet setback with the 180 grain loading being the most sensitive. Even relatively small amounts of bullet setback in this loading can cause chamber pressures during firing to rise to unsafe levels.

3. Glock chambers are cut on the generous side which allows the brass to expand more than usual upon firing. This weakens the brass more than normal which means that using reloaded brass, or especially reloading .40 brass from rounds shot in a Glock can compound the #2 problem while also increasing the chances that the case will fail.

If you stick to high quality factory ammo with bullet weights under 180 grains and stay away from aluminum case ammo, you should have no problem. Federal ammo seems to be over-represented in the failures associated with factory ammo--might want to stay away from them although I usually recommend their ammo in most cases.

For what it's worth, this phenomenon is not limited to Glocks. There have been kB!s in most brands--and in other calibers than .40. The .40 Glock does seem to get more than its share, but it's likely that some of this is due to the large number of these guns in service.
 
First off, you'd be hard pressed to find any accounts of a Glock .40 blowing up with factory ammo. Not to say it NEVER happens, but not very often. Generally it will happen if you shoot thousands of rounds of lead bullets (a no-no in a polygonally rifled barrel) and never clean it. Or, if you get a BAD factory load or a BAD reload. Sorry, ALL Glock kabooms are ammo-related in one way or another.

Glocks are nost certainly NOT "plagued" in any way by kabooms. I own 2 .40 Glocks, a 27 and a 23 (which is my daily carry piece) and have shot literally thousands of rounds through each of them. The ONLY difficulty I ever had was a FTF once due to limpwristing. Strange, neither one of mine ever blew up. Maybe because I use factory jacketed ammo in it like the instructions say.

If you're referring to a recent event regarding some inaccurate statements made by a PD, I believe they blamed their badly-maintained Glock 22 pistols. Interestingly, they all blew up while shooting reloads too....Hmmmmm......
 
Wrong answer jc2. It is ALWAYS an ammo related problem. Kept at or below SAAMI rated pressures for a 40 S&W cartridge you will NEVER EVER EVER have a problem. You can easily exceed the rated pressures with bullet setback, hot loads, barrel obstructions and the like. A gun will never blow itself up, and neither will in-spec ammo.

Millions of rounds per year go downrange in 40 caliber Glocks, more than any other 40 caliber gun by a large margin and probably a million to one over the XD. A FEW issues per year is not a big deal, statistically there are lots worse bets like getting in your car tomorrow for instance. Statistically the odds of having a 40 Glock KB are so low as to truly be 'insignificant'.

The Glock does have less chamber support than some other guns out there. They are less tolerant of over-pressure than some other guns out there. They are also more reliable than most other guns out there, and the large chamber and feedramp cut are very much the reason for such feeding prowess.

The Glock is not 'prone' to KB.
 
There's been absolutely too many cases of kabooms with factory ammunition from major manufacturers to say, "It is ALWAYS an ammo related problem," (and no, "thousands of rounds of lead bullets" are not the culprit. There is a combination of design issues to make the Glock more prone to kabooms with factory ammunition than many competing handguns. These factor include very generous chambers and looser tolerances that allow it to fire out of battery.
The Glock does have 1. less chamber support than some other guns out there. They are 2. less tolerant of over-pressure than some other guns out there. They are also 3. more reliable than most other guns out there, and the large chamber and feedramp cut are very much the reason for such feeding prowess.
Click to expand...
1. True

2. True

3. Not true. There are a large number "other guns out there" that are every bit reliable as Glocks without a "large chamber and feedramp cut."

There is a thriving market for "after-market" .40 S&W barrels for a reason.

I do agree with your opinion that "statistically the odds of having a 40 Glock KB are so low as to truly be insignificant," but there are other .40 S&W handguns equally reliable that are less likely to have a kaboom. If you want a Glock in .40 S&W go ahead get one--the odds are definitely on your side on your side, but the bottom line remains your chances of having a kaboom with a Glock are greater (but your odds of a kaboom with any handgun chambered for .40 S&W are higher than with 9x19 or .45 ACP). Frankly, if I were looking for a .40 S&W, it wouldn't be a Glock. YMMV
 
I've owned/own three .40 Glocks, G-35, G-24, G-20KKM.40 conversion.
The stock barrels have a dissapointingly large and sloppy chamber.
IF the ammo is new in spec and not been re-chambered, you will probably never have a problem.
The KKM barrel is noticably tighter.
A pistol designed for .40 (HK, etc..) will have a greater safety margin for slighly out of spec ammo.
Glock should have redesigned the basic frame when the .40 came out.
I feel better shooting the G-20/.40 conversion than the others. The brass comes out obviously less expanded.
That said, there are so many .40 Glocks out there that the 'problem' is a little overblown and the injuries are very minor.
People tend to forget about the 1911/.38 super problems. Remember 'super face'?
 
What the heck does super face have to do with this discussion? Super face never occurred with factory ammo, only with super hot handloads that far exceeded the design limits of both the brass and the gun. With some of the loads the IPSC shooters were using its amazing there wasn't alot more cases of super face.
 
jc2, your information about Glocks and their "loose tolerances" is inaccurate. A Glock will fire out of battery? That's news to me.

Yes, Glocks do not have a "fully supported chamber". This means absolutely nothing. If you're using new factory ammo (as per the instructions) there is NO issue at all. The only thing that could have any impact on that would be if you had a defective casing or an overcharge or some other deficiency with the ammo. Therefore, it's an AMMO related problem.

There's a big aftermarket for replacement .40 barrels because people like to save money and shoot lead bullets in them, which as was stated earlier, you should not do in a polygonally rifled barrel. This is not exclusive to Glock. HK uses the same type of rifling in the USP and you shouldn't shoot lead from them either. Also, there are a lot of folks shooting Glocks in IDPA and GSSF who would like a match grade barrel.

Glocks are not the prettiest guns in the world, nor are they the most accurate (although mine have historically been very accurate). They are service pistols plain and simple. As such they get grief, usually from the 1911 fans or the Sig fans. Personally, I own a Kimber 1911 and I think it's a great gun, but I'd be too afraid of nicking the delicate finish to carry it daily. I think Sigs are overpriced but are good guns. I wouldn't trade a Glock in towards either.

I'm just curious, have you owned a Glock? Do you have any hands-on experience with them? The rumor is a bigger issue than the actual kabooms.
 
I have owned 3 glock 40's, and have picked once fired glock 40 brass with the following findings. I have nevr had one blowup but have found that brass expansion within some glock chambers is excessive. New brass is .418 outside measurement. I have found some glocks to stretch the brass to .438 after firing FACTORY ammunition at the police range. I am also saying this has been of variuos factory loadings from various manufacture. Some even had a bell at the web and were VERY close to rupture, I consider this unsafe as I have owned 4 S&W 40cals, a springfield xp40, Taurus millenium Pro 40, Browning Hi-power 40, 2 Sig Sauer 40's P239, Sigpro polymer. NONE of these guns exceeded .430 on fired brass both factory and reloads! I still own thw Sigpro, the Milleniumpro, and the Browning. I shoot 3-5 times a week and have fired thousands of 40 cal rounds for years. I will say this I would not buy a glock unless I was permitted to measure the inside chamber dimension or measure brass fired from the weapon from more than one brand of ammo. The glocks also suffer severe primer swipe, you can always tell a glock fired 40 from the primer strike. Would I own another glock? yes only if I could test the gun or measure the chamber first as glocks seem to have a wide variance of chamber dimension. Yes they are reliable and rugged with the exception of some of the 40's. Your chances are low of getting a KaBoom, but they are also low of getting hit by lighting, I personnaly am a play it safe person, I dont stand in a thunderstorm holdng a lightning rod!
 
1) Buy a Glock 40 S&W and a CZ52 for destructive test.
2) Incrementally increase the the powder charge until you see a feed ramp case bulge.
3) What? The CZ52 split the barrel and slide? .....What gun has a kaboom problem again?
 
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What the heck does super face have to do with this discussion?
-
Only that back then, people understood they were pushing the edge and took responsibility for it themselves and took measures to prevent it.
These days shooters hear of KB's and blame the gun, blame the ammo, and if it happens to them they call a lawyer and sue the pants off somebody because it can't be their fault.
 
These days shooters hear of KB's and blame the gun, blame the ammo, and if it happens to them they call a lawyer and sue the pants off somebody because it can't be their fault.
END QUOTE

Well quite simply most of the KB's I have delt with have been in LEO circles because I am a cop. As cops we don't use reloads. Glocks do blow at a greater rate than other guns due to the reduced chamber support. I will say if the ammo is within spec the Glock will do fine. The problem is when the ammo companies mess up the Glock is not tolerant in the least. This is more of a 40sw problem than a Glock Problem because this cartridge has been plagued with KB's from not just Glock but also Bereta (96) Sig, (229 happened to me) and a few others. This is part of the reason I have come to Like Glock 9mm's more so than the larger calibers.
Pat
 
"-
What the heck does super face have to do with this discussion?
-
Only that back then, people understood they were pushing the edge and took responsibility for it themselves and took measures to prevent it.
These days shooters hear of KB's and blame the gun, blame the ammo, and if it happens to them they call a lawyer and sue the pants off somebody because it can't be their fault."


The occurances of Super Face and Glock kb's are totally different. Super Face resulted from knowingly pushing .38 Super rounds to the max, and beyond. kb's are typically reloads, as well as factory ammo, that in most instances is intended to be within normal operating pressures, rather than intentionally hotrodding the round.

And if anyones contention is that Glock kb's result from overpressure loads, I would certainly like to hear how, after the fact, that overpressure was determined to be the cause of the kb (versus loose tolerances or firing out of battery, or any other possible cause).



Scott
 
And if anyones contention is that Glock kb's result from overpressure loads, I would certainly like to hear how, after the fact, that overpressure was determined to be the cause of the kb (versus loose tolerances or firing out of battery, or any other possible cause).
Click to expand...

Process of elimination. If the tolerances are tight, and the gun hasn't fired out of battery, and the shooter hasn't been shooting lead bullets and the gun has been functioning perfectly up until now aqnd has been properly maintained, the only thing left would be an overpressure round or a bad case.

If the less-than-full case support could be responsible for an otherwise working gun, firing perfect ammo, to kaboom, then it stands to reason that ALL cartridges would always blow up in the gun. The chamber doesn't change from round to round, the cartridge does. Therefore, if it's not the ammo's fault but the chamber's then you wouldn't be able to fire any cartridge in the gun without a kaboom.

It's for this reason that I second the statement that a Glock is not PRONE to kabooms due to a design deficiency, but rather is unforgiving of bad loads.
 
Okay, well, I seemed to have stirred up the hornet's nest here.... Maybe I'll ask a simpler question. Since the .40 is a high pressure round, which manufacturer's platform do you think is designed best to handle it? Sig, HK, Glock, 1911, Springfield XD..... any others?????
 
And if anyones contention is that Glock kb's result from overpressure loads, I would certainly like to hear how, after the fact, that overpressure was determined to be the cause of the kb (versus loose tolerances or firing out of battery, or any other possible cause).
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to hear how "loose tolerances" will cause a SAAMI-spec cartridge to rupture the chamber of a pistol and peel the top of the slide back like a banana, without an out-of-spec case, overcharge of powder, or bullet setback being a contributing factor.

Bear in mind that the .40 Glocks have passed obstructed bore tests with duty ammo many, many times, so obviously there's more at work here than just "loose tolerances."

Yes they seem over-represented in the statistics, however .40 caliber Glocks are over-represented in the general populace, too. I remain agnostic as to whether their actual failure rate is higher than other .40 pistols but it may well be so. I'd imagine it has more to do with the gun being at the ragged edge for a .40, and therefore being more susceptible to an out-of-spec load (I don't think that "out of battery" can explain the catastrophic barrel & slide failures adequately, either.)

It may look hideous, but the actual market version of the G37 had me breathing a sigh of relief. When I saw the original at SHOT, my first thought was "Didn't they ream the G17 out enough to create the G22? Another .05" is kinda pushin' their luck..." :uhoh:
 
Okay, well, I seemed to have stirred up the hornet's nest here.... Maybe I'll ask a simpler question. Since the .40 is a high pressure round, which manufacturer's platform do you think is designed best to handle it? Sig, HK, Glock, 1911, Springfield XD..... any others?????
Click to expand...
S&W--particularly the 4006 (steel frame, full-size).
 
I would vote for the HK USP, simply because it was designed from the start for the .40 S&W cartridge. All the other calibers available in that model were offshoots of the .40 model.

I had an XD40 and wasn't convinced that it was the ideal platform for the cartridge. I never had any issues with it as far as FTF or FTE, but it had an annoying pause when loading the chamber. The slide would cycle back, pick up a round and on it's way back would pause for a split second as the new round was entering the chamber. The 9mm versions didn't do this, and I've not tried the .357Sig, so who knows? I do know that the original HS2000 was designed for the 9mm.

Dunno about the .40 S&Ws though I suspect they are fine guns.

If you have a concern over this, have you considered a different caliber? 10mm comes to mind. Maybe .45? both are excellent cartridges. Point being, you're better off with a gun that you're confident in and not worried about for whatever reason, especially if it's your defensive arm.
 
Kabooms, there are different kinds:

1) A hole blows in the case, sending hot gas down the feed ramp into the magazine.
I have done this a couple times, but it is not memorable.

2) The case head blows off, cutting the extractor in half and sending half to the right at lethal velocities, the bottom plate of the magazine blows off dumping the follower, spring, and ammo. Some debris may come back through the ejector slot in the slide and hit the shooter in the face [major face]. I have done this a couple times, and it is very memorable. I have not been hurt, but I HAVE had to pay for new pistol parts.

3) The chamber splits. The slide gets bent up. This makes the gun a total loss. Anyone standing on the right is in danger. The only semi auto pistol that will do this in a incremental work up that stops when the brass fails is the CZ52. I have tested about 18 semi auto designs, including the Glock 19, 20, and 22.
Three of ten revolver designs I tested split the chamber before the brass got stuck or the latch got loose. Semi auto's are usually stronger than the brass.

4) There are other non kaboom events to look for:
1) case bulge in the shape of the feed ramp [this is a warning]
2) primer piercing
3) primer falling out due to primer pocket growth.
5) Primer "top hats"



What does it all mean?
Per my experiments, I can't see a Glock that is free of bore obstructions blowing up with SAAMI pressure ammo.

--
A society that teaches evolution as fact will breed a generation of atheists that will destroy the society. It is Darwinian.
 
jc2,

S&W--particularly the 4006 (steel frame, full-size).
Click to expand...

Interesting that you'd pick that one, as the 4006 is just another "tarted up 9mm", being more-or-less a "bored-out" 5906. :confused:
 
I recall a picture someone took of some barrels several years back. Most likely I saw it on glocktalk or the firing line.

The picture had a factory glock barrel and 2 other factory barrels. All had a round in them and you could see the different half moon shapes of exposed brass. The barrels were out of the gun and standing on end next to each other.

As I recall, and I am sorry I did not keep the picture, the glock was not majorly different from the other two.

Does anyone with a digital camera have a few guns chambered in 40S&W to compare?

I have zero worry about my little glock 27 since I use factory ammo and don't rechamber stuff. Actually I have made it a good habit for all rounds in all guns since any round can wind up with a setback if the right conditions are met.

Oh, and the reason I will buy aftermarket barrels for the 27 is for shooting lead or to change over to another caliber. :D
 
What does it all mean?
Per my experiments, I can't see a Glock that is free of bore obstructions blowing up with SAAMI pressure ammo.
Click to expand...
Coming from a man whose hobby is blowing up guns on purpose, that's high praise!

For those of you who don't know Clark, he spends a good bit of his time and money doing reloading experiments in which he reloads ammunition with incrementally increased powder charges to see what happens in various fire-arms.

It gives him an unusual perspective into the strength of brass and firearms.
 
Boy, this Kaboom thing seems to pop up everywhere!
The advice is pretty standard and always the same:

1. Use factory ammo. It is true that the Glock does not have as much support to the chamber as some other guns. However, it is NOT the only brand that does not fully support the case web.

2. Make sure the recoil spring is good. My personal homemade test is to load a snap-cap into the weapon and holding the weapon with the barrel pointing up, gently pull the slide back just until the gun is out of battery and gently release. Does the slide move FULLY into battery every time? If not, replace the recoil spring.

3. Repeat number one. I can see the case bulges (or glock smiles) as I have seem them called on the brass from my Glock.

Glocks are good, reliable weapons. You just have to make sure to use good quality ammo and verify all of the working parts are in good shape.
I always clean my stiker channel after shooting a few hundred rounds through it (personal preference) and I verify firing pin safety operation (easy to do with the gun unloaded) and recoil spring performance whenever I clean and reload my weapon.

Check the maintainence tips at www.topglock.com
Excellent advice on their website.
 
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