Glock "limp wrist" --- my experience

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This might sound funny. But you're doing it wrong. LOL. Try bending your elbow more and/or holding the gun to your side. If that doesn't work, keep moving farther to the side, incrementally, as long as you feel safe and in control.

The idea is to get your arm out from behind the gun. You should be able to make those guns limpwrist, if you're creative.
 
I agree with GLOOB, you're doing it totally wrong. It's not about how loose your grip is, it's about how much the gun moves when you're shooting: Bend your elbow at least 90 degrees and keep it as limp as possible. Then hold the gun way down on the grip; keep the web of your hand far away from the beavertail so there's as much muzzle flip as possible. Of course, this is a grip you would never use in real life no matter how injured you were, but it will cause a stoppage.

And for safety's sake, I recommend loading only one round in the gun when you're trying to cause a limp-wrist stoppage. The type of stoppage will be a failure to extract or eject, which won't be affected by having only one round in the gun. And if the gun ejects the case properly and locks back on an empty magazine, then you know you've failed to cause a limp-wrist stoppage.

But when you hold it like I described above, there's always a possibility that you'll lose control of the gun and have an ND on the second round. And it's possible the ND will occur with the gun pointed in an unsafe direction.
 
Well, to be super truthy, having only one round in the gun might affect things. The last round is most prone to ejection problems, IME. The Glock extractor, esp in 9mm, is pretty lame. Without the next round pushing the case up, it can slide down. Combined with a limp wrist, the case can bounce wrong and fail to eject in a way it otherwise wouldn't have. IMO.

But from a safety standpoint, you make a good point. Don't do anything you feel is dangerous. Safety, first.
 
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That's a good point. But a gun should still be able to properly eject the last round. And from a safety standpoint, holding the gun in the manner I described is not a great idea.
 
How bout putting a snap cap in the mag? There's the safest way to test your life-and-death, last ditch, horribly insufficient grip where you might still dare to pull the trigger and still wish for the gun to cycle. :)

For some reason, I picture my attacker snatching the gun out of my stupid grip and shoving it where the sun don't shine. But just in case I'm still running around laying down suppressive fire at SD distances with two gimp arms, why not?
 
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Of course, snap caps! Great idea. Yeah, snaps caps will work and will also keep someone from accidentally shooting themselves in the face. :evil:
 
Theohazard said:
it's about how much the gun moves when you're shooting
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Seems like it moves quite a bit to me. I wouldn't even try to much more, I don't want it pointing at my head while I barely have "control" over it.

Doing it with only one round as mentioned might "help" (and I do have dummy rounds)

23k2qvl.gif
 
Well, to be super truthy, having only one round in the gun might affect things. The last round is most prone to ejection problems, IME. The Glock extractor, esp in 9mm, is pretty lame. Without the next round pushing the case up, it can slide down. Combined with a limp wrist, the case can bounce wrong and fail to eject in a way it otherwise wouldn't have. IMO.
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See your on to something. :scrutiny: without a mag inserted my 17 will stovepipe every single time. "Showing clear" in a match will result in a round dribbling through the open magwell half the time.
 
That's due to poor extractor tension. Easily tested but half the glocks I've seen have that problem. Moving away from the mim extractor to a machined one like the one from apex and fitting the pad if needed should fix that and erratic ejection.
 
tarosean said:
See your on to something. :scrutiny: without a mag inserted my 17 will stovepipe every single time. "Showing clear" in a match will result in a round dribbling through the open magwell half the time.
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Mine actually had this problem too and the extractor was damaged. After it was replaced the issue went away completely.
 
That's due to poor extractor tension.Easily tested but half the glocks I've seen have that problem.
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Yeah I know... I just live with it as I don't get BTF and I will never depend on the gun for life or death anyhow.. (Lightened trigger and striker/springs)
 
Warp said:
Seems like it moves quite a bit to me.
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It's not enough. All you're doing is holding it with one hand and loosening a few fingers. But your wrist and your arm are still in line behind the gun, and so it's still working fine.
 
Man, I must be really stupid, try, try as I may. my glocks will not malfunction from "limp wristing".

Maybe if I get on the internet and do a search, I can find an instructor who will show me how to do it.

Maybe some hypnosis or mindful mediation will help me learn.:evil:
 
1KPerDay said:
Try it like this

http://youtu.be/fsewsolPyBU?t=2m26s
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I knew what you were going to post before I clicked it.

That is just plain stupid.

I say that if that is what must be done to get a malfunction..."limp wristing" is impossible. Because that ^ is not "limp wristing".


This whole thing really does go to show just how -silly- it is for people to say that if you have sweat on your hands it might prevent you from gripping the gun well enough for function. I mean...lol
 
Warp said:
This whole thing really does go to show just how -silly- it is for people to say that if you have sweat on your hands it might prevent you from gripping the gun well enough for function. I mean...lol
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Bingo. By the way, I've shot my Glock 19 just like he did in that video and it functioned flawlessly. It wasn't until I held it like I described in post #3 that I was able to induce a stoppage. I was using just one single round in the chamber and an empty magazine for safety's sake. And, like GLOOB and others have pointed out, that may have contributed to the stoppages.
 
Warp said:
...
This whole thing really does go to show just how -silly- it is for people to say that if you have sweat on your hands it might prevent you from gripping the gun well enough for function. I mean...lol
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Having a wet (and/or cold) hand can, however, seem to prevent some folks from acquiring a proper initial grip on their gun during drawing & presentation, which can complicate maintaining an adequate grip during recoil & torquing.


Your 2 videos show an apparent intentional reduction in grip firmness, but your shooting hand is still nicely aligned with your wrist & forearm.

This is an important consideration than many folks miss when trying to diagnose a grip stability/technique problem that results in a feeding stoppage and/or ejection issue.

I've never liked the term or description "limp-wristing" when it comes to semiauto pistol functioning issues. The looseness or lack of firmness of the actual grip is only a part of the potential problem with some shooters. The angle of the wrist/forearm relative to the gun hand is also very important.

When a shooter "breaks" their wrist behind the shooting hand, allowing their wrist to acquire an angle in one or more directions (or planes), it can substantially reduce the support of the frame ... independent of the grip's firmness. Two different influences that can be acting on the gun hand's support during the recoil cycle.

I've seen some shooters "break" their wrist inward, moving the gun more toward their center-line, while raising or lowering the gun relative to their elbow/forearm, flexing their wrists ... and at the same time they may also let the gun come closer to their torso or loose clothing (think car coat, bulky sweatshirt, etc). They may be gripping the gun with their fist firmly, but "breaking" the angle of their wrist may introduce 2 disadvantages.

First, it reduces the support of their forearm (bones) being aligned directly behind their gun hand. The actual grip may be less-than-ideal, but the support of the wrist/forearm may mitigate that "loosened" grip influence.

Secondly, it shortens the distance between their gun hand and their clothing (or torso), which may result in a "torquing" gun's slide to have a weakened (velocity) & shorter slide run ... and also risk bumping up against their clothing (or body) just enough to rob slide travel ... inducing an ejection problem or feeding stoppage. This can be a grip-technique-relative-to-clothing-and-body-indexing issue.

Then, there's the folks who can somehow manage to induce a grip stability stoppage while shooting 1-handed/point-shoulder, or even 2-handed, up and away from their clothing/torso because they unintentionally reduce the support of their wrist/forearm behind the gun hand.

Then there's the folks who can't seem to induce an intentional grip stability functioning issue ... unless they come across a low-powered round of ammo.

Trying to fix such shooter-induced issues can be complicated by not properly diagnosing what's actually happening. Sometimes it's not just one influence at work. ;)

FWIW, over the years of watching grip stability issues occur, it's seemed that more often than not, it's involved some lack of sufficient grip, but also someone unintentionally "breaking" the angle of their wrist/forearm behind that less-than-ideal grip.

Now, introducing shooter movement, or reacting to the presence of a barrier/barricade, can complicate shooter grip technique & stability in even more interesting ways. :scrutiny:
 
1KPerDay said:
*shrugs*
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If you read my entire post my point would make perfect sense.

Of course, snipping partial sentences out of context leads to pronouns like "it" losing their intention.

As I said, that video isn't "limp wristing", it is something else entirely.
 
Nah, that's not what people are talking about. Think about those people you've seen shooting who allow the gun to move their arms (by bending at the elbows) up a foot and a half. Your forearms are being too still. The butt of the gun is staying relatively stationary, even as the muzzle flips a lot. The whole gun has to move to get failures.

What you have done is demonstrate that "limp writs" is a bad name for the phenomenon, not that there is no phenomenon of insufficient resistance to recoil generating jams.
 
Well, I'll give it another go next week.

The plan: Start out using cheap FMJ range ammo, I think CCI Blazer Brass and Tulammo BrasMaxx mixed together is what I'm using right now. Use magazines of one live round followed by one dummy round/snap cap. Hold loose as I have been, also bend my wrist excessively such that the forearm to get my forearm out from behind the pistol at least somewhat. I probably won't even be standing behind the gun at this point.

Assuming I get it to malfunction this way, once I can make it malfunction, I will put higher power defensive JHP ammunition in for the live round, repeat, and see if it still happens.
 
What are you trying to "prove", anyway? That it's possible to induce a grip-related shooter-induced stoppage of one sort or another? Already been accepted as a possible cause of problems by the major pistol makers. ;)

That's probably why many of the armorer manuals I've collected in classes over the years typically list "shooter grip" as a common "probable cause" in the trouble-shooting sections. Nothing new or surprising.

Just like under-powered & over-powered ammo can cause - or contribute to - the potential for functioning problems.

As an instructor I've had at least my fair share of opportunity to deal with shooter-induced grip technique/stability problems for folks with insufficient (or borderline) grip techniques, and that was with metal-framed pistols. Some plastic pistols, with their reduced mass (and any frame flexion), have apparently made it more noticeable for some folks.

Grip stability might vary enough for some shooters to make other influences more plikely to cause occasional problems ... meaning ammo power variance, dirty guns, insufficiently lubricated guns, over or under-sprung guns, etc.

The "perfect storm" might be a shoot of smaller stature, with grip/wrist/forearm strength issues, using a grip which allows the wrist to radically "break" inside & downward (like locking elbow at hip and bringing the gun inward their belt buckle, so their forearm is nowhere near being behind their fist), using low-powered ammo and wearing a loose outer garment that cushions the recoiling slide. :uhoh:

Might as well expect someone not seated behind a steering wheel, not being able to reach the pedals or see out any of the mirrors, to drive a car as well as someone who is properly seated and able to reach/see all the necessary controls. :eek:
 
fastbolt said:
What are you trying to "prove", anyway? That it's possible to induce a grip-related shooter-induced stoppage of one sort or another? Already been accepted as a possible cause of problems by the major pistol makers.
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I'm assuming he's trying to prove the same thing I was: That it's a lot harder to induce a "limp-wrist" stoppage than many people think.

I see it all the time on this and other gun forums: Many people believe the internet myth that Glocks will "limp-wrist" if you use anything other than a perfect grip and stance. And that's simply untrue.
 
Theohazard said:
I'm assuming he's trying to prove the same thing I was: That it's a lot harder to induce a "limp-wrist" stoppage than many people think.

I see it all the time on this and other gun forums: Many people believe the internet myth that Glocks will "limp-wrist" if you use anything other than a perfect grip and stance. And that's simply untrue.
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This was the impetus, correct.

I'm tired of people claiming that having sweaty hands or a "less than perfect" grip will lead to malfunctions. It's just silly.

Now I want to see what it takes to induce malfunction with cheap FMJ range ammo, and then attempt to duplicate that with quality defensive JHP to see if it still happens
 
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