Glock lovers check this out!
- Thread starter Jiles111
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Dave Markowitz
Member
I see that the ammo used was American Ammunition. I.e., junk. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an overcharge in it.
Btw, maybe a mod could move this to the correct forum?
Btw, maybe a mod could move this to the correct forum?
Brigrat
Member
This is not completely false. I work in an industry that has large armed security forces across the country. Many of them are issued Glock 22's or 23's. I have received reports of dozens of glocks going boom instead of bang over the last few years. I watched a Glock 23 KB right before my eyes with factory ammo. When we contacted Glock about whether our issued G22's were at risk, they said no, and then replaced all of our lower receivers, and recoil springs at no charge.
Before the swapping of parts, we had probelms with cracked slide stops twice, and FTF's, and FTE's about 1% of the time. Since the upgrades, we have had no problems.
In my opinion, as a glock hater, Glock probably had serious problems with their early .40's. With Gen 3 guns, there are probably no problems, and I carry my issued G22 now. I did not before.
This used to be a problem, even if Glock lovers, and Glock workers deny it, It should not be a problem anymore.
This is based on my opinion, and experience.
Before the swapping of parts, we had probelms with cracked slide stops twice, and FTF's, and FTE's about 1% of the time. Since the upgrades, we have had no problems.
In my opinion, as a glock hater, Glock probably had serious problems with their early .40's. With Gen 3 guns, there are probably no problems, and I carry my issued G22 now. I did not before.
This used to be a problem, even if Glock lovers, and Glock workers deny it, It should not be a problem anymore.
This is based on my opinion, and experience.
The guy that runs that sight has some kind of beef with Glock. That said, the kaboom rumers did steer me clear of .40 Glocks for a while. I went to Glock 20-10mm. A .45 sized pistol chambered for 10mm makes me feel better than a 9mm sized pistol chambered in .40s&w. I think Glock has it straightened out now.
goalie
Member
Any gun can Ka-Boom. The only one I have seen in person was a Sig. Of course, if there are 10 times the number of Glocks than there are the number of brand X issued to police and owned by civilians, then wouldn't we statistically expect more kabooms? Then again, any idiot can blow up a polygonally rifled pistol with lead bullets as well.
Mr. Mysterious
Member
And how is that the Glocks fault? Thats like blaming a 3 year kid for getting beat up by his parents.
Albert Shear
Member
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- 204
First. Mr Speir has made it his mission to first chastise Glocks out of existence and now Beretta 92s. He is not a qualified weapons expert in the field, just a writer with an opinion that prints 10 year old pictures over and over again.
Second. Yes Glock did have problems and I will be the first to say so. The company called them "upgrades" instead of the dreaded recalls. But, lets not lose sight of one fact. The gun was designed by Europeans for the European market. There are hardly any reloaders there. One type of ammunition is used so there is basically a closed weapons system. Now bring it here and introduce all the variables we Americans love to tinker with and problems crop up. The engineers now have to deal with variables they never dreamed of before.
Third. Even HK when they came out with their P9 series with polygonal rifling some twenty years ago made the disclamer not to use lead bullets(sorry, but a thin wash in this case) bullets are the same in my mind. I helped teach a class where American Ammunition was used for the first time, some 3k rounds were ordered and I ended up throwing away 2700 rounds.
Fourth. I have seen just as many 1911s, SIGS etc with broken frames as I have Glocks, even revolvers with stretched frames and blown barrels.
As you can see I don't take much of what Mr Speir says as truth and I do not agree with Glock Smyrna on a lot of issues either. But I do sit here typing this with a Glock19 at my side with 16 rounds of Federal 9BP 115gr.
Second. Yes Glock did have problems and I will be the first to say so. The company called them "upgrades" instead of the dreaded recalls. But, lets not lose sight of one fact. The gun was designed by Europeans for the European market. There are hardly any reloaders there. One type of ammunition is used so there is basically a closed weapons system. Now bring it here and introduce all the variables we Americans love to tinker with and problems crop up. The engineers now have to deal with variables they never dreamed of before.
Third. Even HK when they came out with their P9 series with polygonal rifling some twenty years ago made the disclamer not to use lead bullets(sorry, but a thin wash in this case) bullets are the same in my mind. I helped teach a class where American Ammunition was used for the first time, some 3k rounds were ordered and I ended up throwing away 2700 rounds.
Fourth. I have seen just as many 1911s, SIGS etc with broken frames as I have Glocks, even revolvers with stretched frames and blown barrels.
As you can see I don't take much of what Mr Speir says as truth and I do not agree with Glock Smyrna on a lot of issues either. But I do sit here typing this with a Glock19 at my side with 16 rounds of Federal 9BP 115gr.
Can we move this to the Glock bashing forum. What? There isn't one? Could have fooled me... 
I'm so dissappointed. Normally this is where everyone jumps in and says that their buddy's uncle's neighbor had a KB one time so all Glocks suck. And of course noone in these episodes are using reloads.
Anyway, thanks to those that have actual firsthand experience with Glocks and their issues for relating them to us. It is much more helpful than third party info.
I'm so dissappointed. Normally this is where everyone jumps in and says that their buddy's uncle's neighbor had a KB one time so all Glocks suck. And of course noone in these episodes are using reloads.
Anyway, thanks to those that have actual firsthand experience with Glocks and their issues for relating them to us. It is much more helpful than third party info.
I'm not a Glock lover persay, since I still like to poke the true kool-aid drinkers with a sharp stick just to see them raise their hackles and defend their one true saint Gaston. That said, I have two Glocks I shoot the snot out of, only 20K rounds through one, but give me time, it is only 15 months old. I compete with them and trust them for carry.
All guns break. I was at the range last week and cleared one of the shop's G-19 rentals for some retard that couldn't seem to clear it without putting his hand on the muzzle. The shop let me look since I seem to be the default Glock expert, a title I never thought I'd claim. My first clue something was up was that the barrel would not unlock from the slide until I pushed down on the hood with my thumb. I thought broken locking block as soon as that happened. Well, I got the chamber clear which turned out to be an empty case. I pointed the gun at the floor, pulled the trigger and the slide promptly fell off the gun. Hmmm. The locking block was fine, so fine in fact that it was retaining the entire lower locking lug of the barrel. Pics to come when I get them developed.
Another data point. I fired a mag of various factory 10mm through one of the shop employee's G20. After firing I picked up the brass and noticed that the brass from the 3 Hornady XTPs that had been fired were badly bulged at the 6 o' clock position of the web. Hmmm again. Fired the same ammo through his Smith 10mm(10mm freak) and the brass looked virgin. Pics when I get them.
I try not to jump on the "unsupported chamber" bandwagon when I think back to a pic Tamara posted on TFL with a Glock barrel lined up next to several other autoloader barrels. Truth is many other models are throated as much as a Glock.
Some theories I cannot support without a highspeed camera and other cool gadgets. I believe that some Kb! Glocks unlock early, as in before the bullet leaves the bore. Glocks are somewhat unique in that they operate on a spring balance, that being the closing force of the recoil spring at extension must overcome the trigger return and striker springs. Case in point. I had a light recoil spring in my G34 with a heavy trigger return spring and standard striker. This gave me a smooth cycling gun with a light trigger for IPSC. I had several malfunctions where when I seated a reload mag with one in the pipe the jar of seating the mag would help the striker pull the gun out of battery. The barrel hood would be dropped down to the unlock point. This confounded me until I sat down and tried to replicate it. I thought it was a trigger freeze, which made no sense as my trigger finger leaves to run the mag release. I think it may be possible that some guns slightly unlock due to a similar situation with a bullet still in the bore, leading to blown and bulged cases. Dunno, just a theory.
Another, relating back to the 10mm tale. Is it possible that the Glock rifling seal up differently than conventional, yielding a different pressure curve to the powder ignition? I could see that happening, the bullet obturates quicker, better gas seal. What is the leade of the rifling as compared to conventional? Folks throw Bar-stos and KKMs at a Glock to get a "fully supported chamber" which is nigh impossible in an autoshucker; could they be inadvertantly fixing the problem by getting the conventional rifling?
The third theory which is somewhat proven by Darwin, P.T. Barnum et. al. People are freakin idiots. The two biggest Glock purchasers are total neophytes and very experienced handgunners that recognize reliability is a good thing.
The tyros blow #### up because they don't know any better. Case in point, the guy I tapped on the shoulder who was shooting factory lead reloads from a G21. I said "Excuse me, it's really none of my business but you are about to blow yer face off." I proceeded to explain the whole lead+Glock bad thing and showed him one of his badly bulged cases. He then allowed as to maybe that was why his first G21 blew up and Glock was nice enough to replace for 150 bucks.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
The experienced guys blow stuff up because they do know better. They know they can change this, that, cram so much powder in the case, etc. Occasionally that goes all wrong.
The last is fact. Glocks like other guns have problems and the factory would do well to call a recall a recall and get to the root of the problem. Still great guns, gonna carry one today when I head out, just don't drink the kool-aid.
All guns break. I was at the range last week and cleared one of the shop's G-19 rentals for some retard that couldn't seem to clear it without putting his hand on the muzzle. The shop let me look since I seem to be the default Glock expert, a title I never thought I'd claim. My first clue something was up was that the barrel would not unlock from the slide until I pushed down on the hood with my thumb. I thought broken locking block as soon as that happened. Well, I got the chamber clear which turned out to be an empty case. I pointed the gun at the floor, pulled the trigger and the slide promptly fell off the gun. Hmmm. The locking block was fine, so fine in fact that it was retaining the entire lower locking lug of the barrel. Pics to come when I get them developed.
Another data point. I fired a mag of various factory 10mm through one of the shop employee's G20. After firing I picked up the brass and noticed that the brass from the 3 Hornady XTPs that had been fired were badly bulged at the 6 o' clock position of the web. Hmmm again. Fired the same ammo through his Smith 10mm(10mm freak) and the brass looked virgin. Pics when I get them.
I try not to jump on the "unsupported chamber" bandwagon when I think back to a pic Tamara posted on TFL with a Glock barrel lined up next to several other autoloader barrels. Truth is many other models are throated as much as a Glock.
Some theories I cannot support without a highspeed camera and other cool gadgets. I believe that some Kb! Glocks unlock early, as in before the bullet leaves the bore. Glocks are somewhat unique in that they operate on a spring balance, that being the closing force of the recoil spring at extension must overcome the trigger return and striker springs. Case in point. I had a light recoil spring in my G34 with a heavy trigger return spring and standard striker. This gave me a smooth cycling gun with a light trigger for IPSC. I had several malfunctions where when I seated a reload mag with one in the pipe the jar of seating the mag would help the striker pull the gun out of battery. The barrel hood would be dropped down to the unlock point. This confounded me until I sat down and tried to replicate it. I thought it was a trigger freeze, which made no sense as my trigger finger leaves to run the mag release. I think it may be possible that some guns slightly unlock due to a similar situation with a bullet still in the bore, leading to blown and bulged cases. Dunno, just a theory.
Another, relating back to the 10mm tale. Is it possible that the Glock rifling seal up differently than conventional, yielding a different pressure curve to the powder ignition? I could see that happening, the bullet obturates quicker, better gas seal. What is the leade of the rifling as compared to conventional? Folks throw Bar-stos and KKMs at a Glock to get a "fully supported chamber" which is nigh impossible in an autoshucker; could they be inadvertantly fixing the problem by getting the conventional rifling?
The third theory which is somewhat proven by Darwin, P.T. Barnum et. al. People are freakin idiots. The two biggest Glock purchasers are total neophytes and very experienced handgunners that recognize reliability is a good thing.
The tyros blow #### up because they don't know any better. Case in point, the guy I tapped on the shoulder who was shooting factory lead reloads from a G21. I said "Excuse me, it's really none of my business but you are about to blow yer face off." I proceeded to explain the whole lead+Glock bad thing and showed him one of his badly bulged cases. He then allowed as to maybe that was why his first G21 blew up and Glock was nice enough to replace for 150 bucks.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
The experienced guys blow stuff up because they do know better. They know they can change this, that, cram so much powder in the case, etc. Occasionally that goes all wrong.
The last is fact. Glocks like other guns have problems and the factory would do well to call a recall a recall and get to the root of the problem. Still great guns, gonna carry one today when I head out, just don't drink the kool-aid.
ken grant
Member
KA-BOOMS
More Glocks bit the dust! M21's go ka-boom! Police force re-issues pistols to remove Glock M21 from service.
Portland police Chief recalls all G21's because of 2 ka-booms that happened in training
More Glocks bit the dust! M21's go ka-boom! Police force re-issues pistols to remove Glock M21 from service.
Portland police Chief recalls all G21's because of 2 ka-booms that happened in training
GLOCKT
Member
30k and still firing
Close to 30k thru my 3 and all in .40(smith & Wally)
Lets see, maybe overcharged and over sized.
Shoot what you want,know what you shoot.
Close to 30k thru my 3 and all in .40(smith & Wally)
Lets see, maybe overcharged and over sized.
Shoot what you want,know what you shoot.
Albert Shear
Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2003
- Messages
- 204
Ken Grant wrote "More Glocks bit the dust! M21's go ka-boom! Police force re-issues pistols to remove Glock M21 from service.
Portland police Chief recalls all G21's because of 2 ka-booms that happened in training"
Just to simply say the G21 was at fault is an oversimplification. I would be interested to find out 1-what is the practice ammo, is it remanufactured because that could have been the problem and 2- what were the habits of the individual officers. Did they unload their weapons a lot and continously rechamber the same round ? Setback can cause a very dangerous pressure spike. Please remember I am neutral on Glocks, they are in my battery and are a useful tool but I will not unduly blame them when it is not their fault but the human being behind them.
Portland police Chief recalls all G21's because of 2 ka-booms that happened in training"
Just to simply say the G21 was at fault is an oversimplification. I would be interested to find out 1-what is the practice ammo, is it remanufactured because that could have been the problem and 2- what were the habits of the individual officers. Did they unload their weapons a lot and continously rechamber the same round ? Setback can cause a very dangerous pressure spike. Please remember I am neutral on Glocks, they are in my battery and are a useful tool but I will not unduly blame them when it is not their fault but the human being behind them.
The Portland PD was using Federal Hi-Shok.
Mr. Speir does not hate Glocks, in fact he has been known to carry one from time to time. He has dedicated part of his site to pointing out a potentially dangerous flaw in the design of large-bore (>9mm) Glocks pistols that has manifested itself on several occasions.
Unjacketed bullets, combined with a partially unsupported chamber and the possibility of firing out of battery have resulted in the graphic destruction of several weapons and I have seen the photos, and in one case, the scars that resulted.
Fine, you say, any gun can come apart with bad ammo.
Yes, but the Glocks can come apart with factory ammo, as Portland PD can tell you. The problem could be resolved if only Glock would fully support the barrel, like all the aftermarket Glock barrels are.
But no, Glock's solution is to blame the ammo, 100% of the time and stand by their "perfection" marketing campaign.
So, yeah, hold their feet to the fire. When countless police and citizens use these weapons (for the vast majority without a problem) Glock has an ethical obligation to correct a flaw that could result in death if the gun explodes at the wrong time, like the middle of a gunfight.
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Any weapon will fire out of battery if the firing pin jams in the forward position.
The Glocks do have a disconnect that prevents firing out of battery as long as the gun is in proper working order. In fact, it has more than one internal safety that performs that function.
The Glocks do have a disconnect that prevents firing out of battery as long as the gun is in proper working order. In fact, it has more than one internal safety that performs that function.
Gosh, I must be doing something wrong. I fire several hundred rounds of lead bullets a week through a Glock 34. I wish this "wives tale/urban legend/myth" would just go away. Most people just "parrot" something they have heard without checking to see if is fact or fiction.
A while back I decided to see if there really was an issue with Glock barrels and lead bullets. Common sense said there should not be a problem when one looks closely at the rifling design of the Glock.
I fired 500 rounds of 125 gr lead bullets from Valiant Bullets through the G34. I loaded them to a little over 1000 fps. There was little if any lead deposits in the barrel. The stock G34 barrel leads a fraction of what my 9mm conversion barrel does in my G35. The G34 barrel is cleaned by two passes with a brass brush and a couple of patches soaked with Hoppes #9.
A while back I decided to see if there really was an issue with Glock barrels and lead bullets. Common sense said there should not be a problem when one looks closely at the rifling design of the Glock.
I fired 500 rounds of 125 gr lead bullets from Valiant Bullets through the G34. I loaded them to a little over 1000 fps. There was little if any lead deposits in the barrel. The stock G34 barrel leads a fraction of what my 9mm conversion barrel does in my G35. The G34 barrel is cleaned by two passes with a brass brush and a couple of patches soaked with Hoppes #9.
Lone_Gunman
Member
The manufacturer even says not to do this, so you decide to check and see if it will really cause a Kaboom???
"Here's your sign..."
Maybe you could get a job testing shark-proof wet suits?
Get your heads out of the sand. Try some independent thought. BTW the world is not flat. Thank goodness someone checked to see rather than just parroting something they heard.
Most manufacturers also say one should not use relaods either. I guess neither of you do.
Lone I guess you may not know what a bore light is, but I used one to check the bore every few shots. There is also another device, which you my not understand it's workings, called a micrometer that is used to check case expansion.
TBeck try to stay awake in the hotel room kidneys are hard to come by.
I guess the concept of empirical data is probably not in your vocabulary.
I am certain both of you put far more bullets down range per year than I do so I guess I will have to bow to your superior experience. I will stop shooting lead bullets right now!!!
BTW man really did walk on the moon.
Most manufacturers also say one should not use relaods either. I guess neither of you do.
Lone I guess you may not know what a bore light is, but I used one to check the bore every few shots. There is also another device, which you my not understand it's workings, called a micrometer that is used to check case expansion.
TBeck try to stay awake in the hotel room kidneys are hard to come by.
I guess the concept of empirical data is probably not in your vocabulary.
I am certain both of you put far more bullets down range per year than I do so I guess I will have to bow to your superior experience. I will stop shooting lead bullets right now!!!
BTW man really did walk on the moon.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Dude, my post was made with the intention of sarcasm that I guess did not translate well.
I will retract my comment if it will make you feel better.
On a serious note, however, "independent thought" voids the manufacturer's warranty.
On a less serious note, how do you know man walked on the moon?
I will retract my comment if it will make you feel better.
On a serious note, however, "independent thought" voids the manufacturer's warranty.
On a less serious note, how do you know man walked on the moon?
My DI let us watch it on TV and we all know everything we see on TV has to be true. I am sorry if I missed your sarcasm and got a little tense. This Glock lead bullet thing really is a myth. I have several friends that shoot lead bullets in their Glocks. There are several G21 shooters, G17 and G34.
I was totally shocked at the utter lack of lead in my G34.
There was also slightly less case expansion with the lead bullets.
Leading could be a problem if one tried to drive the bullets too fast I guess.
I fire thousands of rounds a year through my Glocks. The lead bullet experiment was an attempt to reduce my cost of practice ammo. 125 gr lead bullets at $16M is a lot cheaper than even plated bullets.
I have seen Sigs, HK, Berettas and 1911s all blow up. 99.9% of the time it is shooter error. Double charge/over charge is a problem, but I think most blowups are caused by bullet set back.
I do think some Glocks can fire slightly out of battery. Usually the case is strong enough to handle this, but not always. The .40 case needs to be a little thicker in the web section IMO.
I was totally shocked at the utter lack of lead in my G34.
There was also slightly less case expansion with the lead bullets.
Leading could be a problem if one tried to drive the bullets too fast I guess.
I fire thousands of rounds a year through my Glocks. The lead bullet experiment was an attempt to reduce my cost of practice ammo. 125 gr lead bullets at $16M is a lot cheaper than even plated bullets.
I have seen Sigs, HK, Berettas and 1911s all blow up. 99.9% of the time it is shooter error. Double charge/over charge is a problem, but I think most blowups are caused by bullet set back.
I do think some Glocks can fire slightly out of battery. Usually the case is strong enough to handle this, but not always. The .40 case needs to be a little thicker in the web section IMO.
Lone_Gunman
Member
Joe D,
If it is a myth (and I am not saying it is or isnt), why does Glock say not to shoot lead?
If it is a myth (and I am not saying it is or isnt), why does Glock say not to shoot lead?
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