Gold dot vs hp

[Robbins290]

Does anybody know the difference between gold dot bullets and regular hp's. im trying to load blue dot in 9mm with 124 grain berrys hp's. all i can data for is gold dot? Is there a difference? I prefer 231 for 9mm and 45 but haven't found it in 6 months.

 

[LiveLife]

Gold Dot HP bullet has thicker copper plating than most plated bullets. I have used Speer Gold Dot/TMJ plated bullets and jacketed load data with good results.

Here's a listing of approximate plating thickness

Speer TMJ: .015"
X-Treme: .010" - .012"
PowerBond/HSM: .010" - .011"
Berry's Thick Plated (TP): .012"
Berry's regular: .006" - .008" (thickness varies for caliber)
Rainier: .004"

Berry's plated bullets come regular or thicker plated (TP). The regular plated bullet are rated to 1250 fps and the TP bullets are rated to 1450 fps. Berry's recommends we use low-to-mid range jacketed load data for their plated bullets. I have used jacketed load data with their TP bullets with good results.

Hodgdon recently added 40S&W load data for Berry's bullets under BERB. The only Berry's load data Hodgdon lists for 9mm is for 130 gr RN bullet.

130 gr BERB RN W231/HP-38 Diameter .356" OAL 1.150" Start 3.9 gr (903 fps) 27,600 PSI - Max 4.3 gr (1005 fps) 33,000 PSI

 

[valleyforge.1777]

Here's something to think about and hopefully someone will expound about this stuff, too:
Some reloading bullets that have an HP appearance are not expanding bullets like self-defense ammo HP's. In other words, some of the bullets for reloading, like the Montana Gold HP's, have an HP appearance and thus have the bulk of their weight towards the back of the bullet to improve accuracy but they do not expand when encountering the target/backstop/jello/whatever. Others, like the Gold Dots (that are available from Speer for reloading under a different name) do in fact expand on impact, just like the commercially-made self-defense ammo.

 

[LiveLife]

Good point. Montana Gold JHP bullets have more rounder nose tip for more reliable feeding than expansion. I would consider MG JHP and most plated HP bullets for "target/practice" use only and use Gold Dot HP and other premium JHP bullets with proven/verified expansion performance for defensive use.

BTW, Berry's MFG has been working on replacing their HP bullets with new "expanding" type bullets similar to Gold Dot bullets but the release date has been delayed - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8493525#post8493525

 

[warhwkbb]

Gold Dot's have a longer\thicker bearing surface than many other HP's of the same weight, so Gold Dot's are listed separately in Speer's manual. Using plated bullets like Berry's, the starting load for jacketed works well.
I question your use of Blue Dot for 9mm. It is a slower powder that I do not think is going to work very well with your plated bullets. You would probably overdrive the Berry bullet with the Berry 124g/Blue dot recipe.

 

[LiveLife]

im trying to load blue dot in 9mm with 124 grain berrys hp's

You would probably overdrive the Berry bullet with the Gold Dot 124g/Blue dot recipe.

Here's current Alliant load data for 124 gr GDHP and Blue Dot.

9mm 124 gr Speer GDHP Blue Dot OAL 1.120" Max 7.9 gr 1,238 fps

Here's 2004 Alliant load data showing 9mm loads for Blue Dot.

 

[Robbins290]

Thanks. That does explain alot. I couldt find anythin on google. Those berrys bullets dont look like they would expand very much. Im just loading to punch paper. So im not too concearned about the expansion

 

[gamestalker]

I load oodles of Gold Dots and XTP's for 9mm, as well as a few other cartridges with those projectiles. But Gold Dots are by no means a target, or plinking round, just too expensive for that. XTP's are a bit less costly, but still a bit too much to just waste on paper punching for most. As for how Gold Dots rank in terms of a self defense bullet, I think they are among the top performers as self defense projectiles. Good stuff!

As for load data, JHP data and Gold Dot data are the same in my books, and my loading experience supports such. Plated bullets, other than Gold Dots, generally operate at lower velocity / pressures, with the exception being those specified as TP, or specified as being capable of handling jacketed data.

However, regarding self defense, I wouldn't rely on a plated bullet to perform, or expand anything like a JHP will. My personal top 3 self defense projectiles in order are Gold Dot's, XTP's, Golden Saber's.

I've loaded a good bit of 9mm using Blue Dot, and actually liked the load characteristics it produced. But again, we are talking about jacketed bullets, which are intended to handle such typical pressures produced by slower burning powders like Blue Dot. I would still load my SD carry rounds with Blue Dot, if unable to find Longshot. In this respect, Longshot seems to get me Blue Dot velocities, with easier to manage pressures.

GS

 

[119er]

I too use Blue Dot in 9mm with Gold Dots and like it in that application but stick to HP-38 with the plated bullets.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I prefer 231 for 9mm and 45 but haven't found it in 6 months.

You do know HP-38 is the same exact powder as W231, right? If you find HP-38 grab it and load as you would with W231.

 

[1SOW]

Thanks. That does explain alot. I couldt find anythin on google. Those berrys bullets dont look like they would expand very much. Im just loading to punch paper. So im not too concearned about the expansion

Here's the trick:
The Berry's 124 HP bullet is a very different "nose shape" than the G.D. 124 HP. The Gold Dot can load long in almost any pistol, the Berry's bullet won't load long in tight chambered pistols like XDs and CZs..

Find the longest oal that will reliably feed and extract and work from there to find a load that's safe.

CZs will load to around 1.05" or less and feed reliably. Find YOUR PISTOLS MAX usable oal and we can give you some data.

As said above, Blue Dot is not a good choice for a light load. It'll burn very dirty and have a lot of muzzle blast. As the load goes up it'll start burning more efficiently, but you'll reach your Berry's max bullet speed pretty fast.

 

[Ex]

I have extensively test both Montana Gold and Zero brand JHPs in .40/10mm 165 gn and 180 gn and .45 in both brands with 230 gn.
The Zero retains weight better through all kinds of material, both expand well and with good shape. I have never had any in-stability
with either in flight. Have driven both VERY hard in 10mm usage. I am perfectly confident using either for SD in home or eslewhere.
I have probably used 8 or 9K rounds form these guys testing into all different materials like gel (gelatin and metamucil), water jugs both frozen
and liquid, wet phone books, 50 gal water jugs from the top.

Zero brand gets a plus 5-10% on jacket retention but bot have always performed to above my expectations.