Anyone know any places that have good prices on "tier 1" AR15 complete lowers (I consider Colt, KAC, Noveske, BCM, etc. to be tier 1)? I'm thinking about a Sionics for $230 but I don't know much about the company. Please don't let this devolve into a debate about tier 1 vs. other AR15s.
Good Prices On Complete "Tier 1" AR Lower?
- Thread starter HGM22
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MachIVshooter
Member
I wouldn't put much thought into the lower beyond a good buffer and the trigger. Spend your money on a quality BCG, barrel and hand guard.
Buzznrose
Member
BCM BLEMISH lowers...
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM
http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=LWR-BCM-BLEM
C-grunt
Member
I was also going to suggest G&R. Sionics is good to go as well.
Blade First
Member
I've been impressed with Sionics' offerings as well as Aero Precision's. You might want to compare their websites and lower builds. 
Jackal
Member
OP must want a classy roll mark. I currently have a new Colt 6720 and a PSA lower sitting side by side. Aside from the rollmark, I wouldnt be able to tell them apart. They both fit/pin the upper the same, they both hold the FCG the same, they both thread the buffer tube the same.... Literally the exact same thing, except markings. They both function the same too. I've had "high" tier lowers and "low" tier ones, I cant tell the difference, either passively or in use.
C-grunt
Member
As someone who is particularly selective on AR parts, some call me a snob, I completely agree. A properly built stripped lower is a properly built stripped lower. It is a non stress piece that just holds the fire control group together. I have a PSA blem on a build and a Anderson Defense lower on a build. Neither are known to be top of the line AR companies. Though I would say PSA is getting close if they could tighten up their QC.
One thing you do get with going with a "top tier" company is the higher standards of QC. Ive seen out of spec lowers from a couple well known AR companies. Thats not to say its impossible for BCM, Colt, Daniel Defense etc.. to put out an out of spec part but it is less common.
If you consider Colt upper tier, sure. They don't forge their own platters, just machine them.
One aspect of forging is that there is a variation on the overall thickness and thin platters are a result. Machining them to spec internally may mean having a wall thickness under milspec which would not pass government standards. Colt no doubt selects platters that will meet specs to eliminate that issue becoming the focus of rejecting a batch of contract guns.
Soooooo - what do they do with the finished receivers that are just a few thousandths under spec but have all the machining cost in them? Throw them away, nope, even in the white lowers are controlled items.
While higher tier makers do keep from pushing the boundaries of inadequate strength or material weakness, the buying public is clueless about whether their particular lower is on the spec or .030" under. And it mostly doesn't make much difference - they are finished and sold.
High tier guns are better as a whole compared to others sold for a price, but in regards the lower, it would take an experienced inspector to discover the differences in any specific one.
What most buyers who ask that question are wanting is the security and prestige of having something that is guaranteed reliable and which has high social standing. Here's the reality, tho - like collectors who covet only the originals and who pay high prices for legendary sports cars, the hot rod industry can deliver a turn key vehicle superior in every way except the VIN plate. And the individual builder can, too, with attention to detail.
It's exactly why some Brand snobs play the "kitchen table" card. They want the provenance of reputation to enhance theirs. Doesn't mean they can use it or know how it works, it's just social escalation to them and to play that game it takes money.
The market absolutely fuels it to get more revenue. Up front they all profess to be "milspec," but out back they ship what they can get away with.
What is the milspec thickness dimension across the trigger housing? Or the number for the wall thickness at the magwell front? Most fit and finish fans spout brand names, not facts, so take with a very large grain of salt their assertions that a Brand is better because.
It's a locker room measuring exercise and their self image and ego is on the line. Since that is the #1 factor in buying a firearm in the first place, buy which one feeds your ego in the way you like.
The rest of us will be buying the cheaper stuff and building kitchen table guns. The money saved goes to ammo expenses and demonstrating actual skill using it.
One aspect of forging is that there is a variation on the overall thickness and thin platters are a result. Machining them to spec internally may mean having a wall thickness under milspec which would not pass government standards. Colt no doubt selects platters that will meet specs to eliminate that issue becoming the focus of rejecting a batch of contract guns.
Soooooo - what do they do with the finished receivers that are just a few thousandths under spec but have all the machining cost in them? Throw them away, nope, even in the white lowers are controlled items.
While higher tier makers do keep from pushing the boundaries of inadequate strength or material weakness, the buying public is clueless about whether their particular lower is on the spec or .030" under. And it mostly doesn't make much difference - they are finished and sold.
High tier guns are better as a whole compared to others sold for a price, but in regards the lower, it would take an experienced inspector to discover the differences in any specific one.
What most buyers who ask that question are wanting is the security and prestige of having something that is guaranteed reliable and which has high social standing. Here's the reality, tho - like collectors who covet only the originals and who pay high prices for legendary sports cars, the hot rod industry can deliver a turn key vehicle superior in every way except the VIN plate. And the individual builder can, too, with attention to detail.
It's exactly why some Brand snobs play the "kitchen table" card. They want the provenance of reputation to enhance theirs. Doesn't mean they can use it or know how it works, it's just social escalation to them and to play that game it takes money.
The market absolutely fuels it to get more revenue. Up front they all profess to be "milspec," but out back they ship what they can get away with.
What is the milspec thickness dimension across the trigger housing? Or the number for the wall thickness at the magwell front? Most fit and finish fans spout brand names, not facts, so take with a very large grain of salt their assertions that a Brand is better because.
It's a locker room measuring exercise and their self image and ego is on the line. Since that is the #1 factor in buying a firearm in the first place, buy which one feeds your ego in the way you like.
The rest of us will be buying the cheaper stuff and building kitchen table guns. The money saved goes to ammo expenses and demonstrating actual skill using it.
An in-spec lower is an in-spec lower. I can totally see wanting a certain rollmark, or wanting certain features of a non-traditional high-end lower like the ambi controls on a KAC lower.
If you just want a standard lower, get whichever one is the best price from a good company. You could do a lot worse than the BCM blem combined with a BCM upper, one of their uppers with a nice rail would make the build ~$1100 ish.
If you just want a standard lower, get whichever one is the best price from a good company. You could do a lot worse than the BCM blem combined with a BCM upper, one of their uppers with a nice rail would make the build ~$1100 ish.
Blade First
Member
"The rest of us will be buying the cheaper stuff and building kitchen table guns. The money saved goes to ammo expenses and demonstrating actual skill using it."
Well done, sir! I'd only change one word of your post...substituting 'less-expensive' for 'cheaper'.
Thank you for the exposition; it's a good day when a man learns something so valuable in just a few paragraphs.
Well done, sir! I'd only change one word of your post...substituting 'less-expensive' for 'cheaper'.
Thank you for the exposition; it's a good day when a man learns something so valuable in just a few paragraphs.
Jackal
Member
My kitchen table guns have always been MORE expensive that any factory Colts I've purchased.... I must be doing it wrong.
Blade First
Member
"I must be doing it wrong. " -- Jackal
You're not doing it wrong when you're building exactly what you want.
The mil-spec fanboys will be here in 3, 2, ...
You're not doing it wrong when you're building exactly what you want.
The mil-spec fanboys will be here in 3, 2, ...
C-grunt
Member
Milspec fanboy already been here.
Jackal
Member
I start with mil spec as a guideline and make it better. Mil spec is really just "minimum spec" anyway. Ever had an Egg Omelet MRE? Rest my case.
Blade First
Member
"Mil spec is really just "minimum spec" anyway. Ever had an Egg Omelet MRE? Rest my case." -- Jackal
Roger that...
Roger that...
1911 guy
Member
I've homebuilt a few ARs. I've used Aero Precision upper with S&W lower on one and BCM blemished upper with Palmetto lower on another. They are running good barrels and quality bolts. Spikes and BCM on them, respectively. Some disagree, but I and others maintain that a forgin is in spec or it isn't. There are only a handful of companies that make them, often for "tier one" and also for "bargain hunter" brands. The difference is the rollmark. Buy in spec receivers and spend the money on barrel, bolt, LPK and whatever goodies you want. Assemble it properly (yes, use a torque wrench, not a calibrated elbow) and you're good to go.
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