help me get my AR facts straight...

[Shadow Man]

Most of the AR's that I have run across will print very respectible groups at 100 yards, regardless of the brand name on the upper/lower. My advice (and this is how I got into the AR world) is to buy a weapon well inside your budget. I'm not trying to push a manufacturer, but as someone else said, DPMS makes a very accurate system OTB, no tweaking necessary. Save some money on the weapon itself and put that extra cash towards more ammunition or magazines, and shoot the weapon often. If you really get into the AR system, you can upgrade your parts as you see fit, and if you don't, then you haven't spent 1K on a safe queen. Just my $0.02.

 

[Zerodefect]

Colt 6920 falls in your price range, and by the sound of it, will exceed your expectations.. 1200-1300 is normal. LMT also sells a very good rifle.

 

[GPWASR10]

I've never spent near 1300 for an AR... So for some buyers it's not "normal".

 

[shadowalker]

Most quality AR-15s are going to be 1.5 MOA or better.

 

[kerank]

Thanks for all the feedback guys (I'm the OP), it really helps to hear others opinions and personal experiences...keep 'um coming!

To clear up some points I didn't make clear:
- I would like a 16" barrel so that leaves me with either carbine length or mid length gas system (DI - not piston). Several have mentioned that the mid-length gas system does indeed offer real world advantages (now where do I find one of these midis?).
- I would like a chrome lined barrel (I think?). I read that the service life of a non-chromed barrel is much lower than I expected...I want it to last many years at an estimate of 3,000 rounds a year. So how long will a non-chromed barrel last (gas port errosion?)?
- I'm torn between 1/7 and 1/9 twist rate. Realistically 90% of my shooting will probably be with the cheap ammo which tends to only come in 55 - 62 grains. However, I realize that 1/7 gives me the ability to stabilize the heavy stuff, but how will it do with 55 grain?
- if I get 1.5 MOA with cheap ammo, I will be a very happy camper, it seems I have under estimated the AR accuracy potential!
- I want a rifle that is reliable, and doesn't continuously break parts (I realize they all break eventually). Do I need to buy from top tier manufacturers (Colt, LMT, Noveske) to ensure that I get reliability and durability?

 

[Shadow Man]

Thanks for all the feedback guys (I'm the OP), it really helps to hear others opinions and personal experiences...keep 'um coming!

Glad to be able to help.

- I would like a 16" barrel so that leaves me with either carbine length or mid length gas system (DI - not piston). Several have mentioned that the mid-length gas system does indeed offer real world advantages (now where do I find one of these midis?).

Definitely go with a mid-length system, they do not cause as much excessive wear on parts. Any respectable AR manufacturer should offer a 16" carbine with a midi system. I wish I could give you a defenite answer, but you will need to shop around a bit.

- I would like a chrome lined barrel (I think?). I read that the service life of a non-chromed barrel is much lower than I expected...I want it to last many years at an estimate of 3,000 rounds a year. So how long will a non-chromed barrel last (gas port errosion?)?

Chrome lined barrel and chamber, definite musts for hard-use. At 3k a year, expect barrel life of around 6 or 7 years (20k rounds). I may be a little off, so if anyone knows better, feel free to correct me, please.

- I'm torn between 1/7 and 1/9 twist rate. Realistically 90% of my shooting will probably be with the cheap ammo which tends to only come in 55 - 62 grains. However, I realize that 1/7 gives me the ability to stabilize the heavy stuff, but how will it do with 55 grain?

1:7 can cause keyholing with lighter grain rounds; 1:9 is probably the best compromise, and you will be able to shoot everything fairly well. Personally, I favor 70+gr rounds, so 1:7 is a must for me.

- if I get 1.5 MOA with cheap ammo, I will be a very happy camper, it seems I have under estimated the AR accuracy potential!

AR's are generally very accurate platforms. They have tight tolerances and few moving parts when compared to other systems, so the rifle may very well shoot better than you.

- I want a rifle that is reliable, and doesn't continuously break parts (I realize they all break eventually). Do I need to buy from top tier manufacturers (Colt, LMT, Noveske) to ensure that I get reliability and durability?

This is a tough question to answer, as everyone has a different opinion, but in this case, I think the old standby fits well: you get what you pay for.

Hope that helped.

 

[SpeedAKL]

-CMMG, BCM, RRA, and a few others sell midlength systems
-1/7 should be fine with most 55-grain
-if you avoid Olympic and Vulcan/Hesse most manufacturers hold up fine save for under heavy use (500rounds+ in one sitting or a couple thousand over a period of a few days). If you are planning to run the gun very hard the quality-control issues discussed under "the chart" come into play more

 

[kwelz]

1:7 can cause keyholing with lighter grain rounds; 1:9 is probably the best compromise, and you will be able to shoot everything fairly well. Personally, I favor 70+gr rounds, so 1:7 is a must for me.

I need to correct this part my friend.

1/7 will not cause a bullet to keyhole. A bullet Keyholes when it is understabalized. This is cause by 1/12 or 1/14 barrels. 1/7 twist will only be a problem with extremely light bullets. 45 Gains and less. These will not keyhole but it is possible to spin them apart.

1/7 twist works for 50 grain bullets and up 1/9 works for bullets around 68 and less. The most commonly used bullet is 55 and 62 grain so technically either will work. However I am more likely to use longer bullets than shorter lighter ones so I prefer 1/7 to 1/9.

Keep in mind through all this that bullet weight is actually less important here than bullet length when we are talking about twist rates. But the weight is a good indicator of overall size so we use that most of the time.

 

[Shadow Man]

I need to correct this part my friend.

1/7 will not cause a bullet to keyhole. A bullet Keyholes when it is understabalized. This is cause by 1/12 or 1/14 barrels. 1/7 twist will only be a problem with extremely light bullets. 45 Gains and less. These will not keyhole but it is possible to spin them apart.

1/7 twist works for 50 grain bullets and up 1/9 works for bullets around 68 and less. The most commonly used bullet is 55 and 62 grain so technically either will work. However I am more likely to use longer bullets than shorter lighter ones so I prefer 1/7 to 1/9.

Keep in mind through all this that bullet weight is actually less important here than bullet length when we are talking about twist rates. But the weight is a good indicator of overall size so we use that most of the time.

Correction noted, thank you sir.

 

[Zerodefect]

1/7 is better for todays defensive 5.56 ammo.

Silver state armory has a real nice 62 and 77 gn round that likes the 1/7. 1/9 works best with 55-62, IME. 55 works well for plinking with a 1/7. Go to 62 or 77 for defense and longer range plinking.

As long as you get a good bore snake or Otis cleaning kit so you don't scratch the bore all up, your chrome lined barrel will last plenty long. Also I clean after each range trip. So sometimes running a wet patch down the bore is all thats needed. You don't allways have to brush it.

Plus there is no breakin for a chrome barrel. And they clean nice.

 

[Offfhand]

Kerank, excuse me, but isn't this what you said at beginning of this thread:

"help me get my AR facts straight... "

Had to laugh after reading all the above posts, What you've learned is about like going to a retirement home in Florida and asking everyone how to vote. Hanging chads anyone?

 

[beeenbag]

I've got a stag arms model 3, flat top. I purchased iron sights for it and thats it. Still smile everytime I get it out. Great rifle. > than $1000 for the whole setup. Also comes with hard carry case and lifetime warranty. In my opinion you cant really beat it.

 

[12131]

So, find one that looks cool...

Don't they all look the same?

 

[Shadow Man]

Originally posted by Offfhand

Had to laugh after reading all the above posts, What you've learned is about like going to a retirement home in Florida and asking everyone how to vote. Hanging chads anyone?

Originally posted by Kerank

Thanks for all the feedback guys (I'm the OP), it really helps to hear others opinions and personal experiences...keep 'um coming!

I'm confused Offfhand, sounds to me like the OP himself is saying that we are helping. How do you suggest we help him out better?