Good shoot? Y/N?

[Warren]

Clerk kills robber and wounds hostage in store shooting. This is the link to the article.

Hawthorne store clerk kills robber, wounds girl
Employee shot the suspect during an attempted theft Thursday night, police say. Co-worker who had been taken hostage is critical but stable.

By Denise Nix
Daily Breeze

A Hawthorne liquor store clerk shot and killed a 20-year-old armed robber and wounded a 15-year-old girl who had been taken hostage, police said Friday.

The unidentified clerk at Center Market in the 13000 block of Prairie Avenue, fearing for his life, shot Jeremiah Williams during the attempted robbery around 7:30 p.m. Thursday, according to the Hawthorne Police Department.



Williams entered the store with an accomplice and pointed a gun at the store clerk, who in return produced a revolver, according to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department statement.

"Suspect Williams grabbed a 15-year-old employee and held her hostage while firing at the store clerk," according to the statement. "The store clerk returned fire, striking both suspect Williams and the 15-year-old clerk."

Williams was dead at the scene. An autopsy was pending, according to the county Coroner's Office.

The girl was taken to a hospital, where she was in critical but stable condition, authorities said.

A second suspect fled on foot, police said.

Williams had four misdemeanor convictions in the Antelope Valley, Inglewood and Compton, said district attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons. The convictions include driving without a license, attempted entry of a dwelling and marijuana possession, Gibbons said.

A sheriff's spokesman told KABC Channel 7 that the store clerk would not be prosecuted and that he may have saved lives by his actions.

City News Service contributed to this story.

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I love that last attribution, I'm glad to find out the clerk will not be prosecuted and I'm sick of hearing cop spokesmen say things like "Don't resist, give them what they want" etc.

The big question is (and to make it sensible that this is in S&T):
If you were the clerk would you have shot back in that situation?

 

[COACH]

Good Question

I really cannot answer that question unless I ever experience this situation (which I hopefully never do)..... I know what I would like to say, ........And of course, if there wasn't a hostage......no brainer

 

[Double Naught Spy]

He had the right to defend himself against the robber, but that does NOT include shooting non-combatants. While he may not be charged, I bet he and the store get a nice civil suit that both will lose.

"Shoot the hostage" is a movie strategy from "Speed" as I recall. You don't find many SWAT officers or others suggesting it to be a valid form of self defense in real life.

 

[FPrice]

Did he intentionally shoot her or was it accidental (i.e., he was trying to shoot the robber)? I "think" that if I were in that situation I would try to avoid shooting unless I had a clear shot or the robber started shooting and gave me little recourse but to fire back to avoid being shot myself.

How many people really practise trying to shoot past a hostage while scared half to death? It's harder than you think.

 

[JohnKSa]

"Shoot the hostage" is a movie strategy

I SERIOUSLY doubt that the clerk shot the hostage on purpose. And I don't think anyone's suggesting that he had a RIGHT to intentionally shoot the hostage.

The fact that they've already stated that he won't be prosecuted seems to imply heavily that he did ok.

The bad guy came in and drew a gun and then failed to surrender/flee when the clerk drew in self-defense. That demonstrates not just the means, but the willingness to use deadly force. If the clerk gives up at that point (after the attacker clearly demonstrates that he's willing to shoot it out), then not only is the clerk in mortal danger, but so is anyone else in the store who may end up witnessing a murder. It's entirely possible that the clerk saved the hostage's life by killing the attacker even though the hostage was wounded in the process.

By killing the attacker, the clerk was able to neutralize the threat and then summon medical help for the wounded hostage. Something that the attacker would have been highly unlikely to do had he gained the upper hand.

I do agree that it's likely a civil suit will result.

 

[Preacherman]

The civil suit, if any, will be interesting. The clerk can claim (legitimately) that the robber was shooting at him, and that if he had not shot back, he would have been killed, and possibly the hostage as well, so as not to leave any witnesses. He thus had no choice but to defend himself. Whilst I agree that the hostage being shot was tragic, the argument can be made that this was unavoidable under the circumstances. She may get some damages out of it (particularly her medical expenses), but with no evil intent on the part of the clerk, I don't think she can sue on the grounds that she was deliberately harmed.

 

[armedandsafe]

"Suspect Williams grabbed a 15-year-old employee and held her hostage while firing at the store clerk," according to the statement. "The store clerk returned fire, striking both suspect Williams and the 15-year-old clerk."

I just don't understand the second-guessing going on here. Lets look at what was reported.

held her hostage while firing at the store clerk

The store clerk returned fire

BG comes in with a gun. Clerk grabs his and brandishes. BG shoots at clerk, using a 15 yo girl as a shield. Clerk shoots back.

Sounds pretty simple to me, and completely understandable action/reaction in a couple of seconds, while under duress and incoming fire. The suit probably won't get very far.

Pops

 

[Bob F.]

Preacherman: I agree; but you just never know about juries or the skill of the attorneys involved!

Would I have taken the shot? Dunno, wasn't there. Recent range time, weapon-at-hand and range would be major factors! I didn't get to shoot/compete much last summer, virtually none over the winter; distance to target would have to be pretty short right now or absolutely no choice/no cover for me.

Stay safe.
Bob

 

[OCJ]

*** kind of liquor store hires 15 year olds?

 

[outlawgunslnger]

what was a 15 year old doing in a liquor store?