Got a Saiga..conversion not worth it.

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orangeninja

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I got some awsome instructions on the Saiga conversion....but now am completely turned off to fitting it out.

Reasons:

1.) I don't know for SURE how many !@*$( American parts are needed. Some say 5, some say 10.

2.) Just adding a pistol grip requires cutting, drilling, sawing, sanding, painting, baking. DANG!!!!

I may just leave it stock and see where the gun ban goes. At least then I can have a high cap "sport" rifle withou the evil pistol grip.

Can I convert it to a AK mag taker without 5 U.S. parts? I know that requires a feed ramp to be put in, but that looks relatively easy compared to the rest.


:(
 
Nope. Ability to accept a normal ak mag makes it unimportable, so you need the us parts to add a feedramp, etc.
 
You could always send it out and have a smith do the hard parts for you. Check out the last section on this page:

http://www.ak-103.com/services.html

Thanks for the link. An interesting site...

RE: The Conversion :scrutiny: A useful service for some but one can buy an AK-47 for less than the price of the conversion.

I'll stick with my Saiga - looks good, shoots good - that's what matters to me.
 
Hmm, you might be able to get enough US parts to use the standard-cap mag without converting to pistol grip. If you used US made followers and floorplates in the mags, and used a US gas piston I think you would only need one more US part (since there is no seperate pistol grip, wouldn't you only need to replace 4 parts??). Does the Saiga use a standard AK hammer or disconnector? If so swap a US made one in (or both if possible for 5 parts) and you'd have the 4 parts... Something to think about, perhaps someone else has more input.
 
"Its expensive and can be done at home, but the outcome is a truly russian ak!"

Actually no....with all the U.S. stuff in there, there is no longer a truly Russian AK. My little brother has an origional Russian AK directly from Mr. K. in the Izzy himself. Inaccurate as all heck, but a fun shooter and peoples eyes go:what:

when they see the markings on the reciever. I don't really think an AK is worth all that hassle. I'd rather buy a crude Romainian and call it a day. It'd probably just be a range beater anyway. I'm thinking of getting the poor man's Dragunov....the SKS. There are a million Yugos running around. With a Choate stock, might be kind of fun.:D
 
reread the cd. cheack out us code title 18 part 1 chapter 44 section 922 I believe it is. commonly referred to 922(R)

as is the rifle is import with foreign made parts in sporting configuration. to convert the rifle to non sporting configuration you have to domesticate the rifle. add US made parts. if you do not want a pistol grip you need 4 US parts. now they have to be certain parts.

a few forums for information and help

forum.saiga-12.com
www.ar15.com go to ak community russian section
www.akfiles.com
www.ak-47.net they have a forum link at top of page.
http://www.soupbowl.kalashnikov.guns.ru/page11.html
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=77&st=0&#entry2882

dont jump into the modifications. take your time read up get sure on whats going on get parts then read some more open it up and look at what your doing run it through your head. then go for it. if something odd comes up or doesnt go to plan or no knowledge on hop over to forum and yell HELP!.

websites for parts.
www.tapco.com -good package for Fire Controll Group,Piston and Saw pistol grip $60 would cost $80+ elsewhere

www.k-var.com -stock sets,pistol grips and numerous other items.
-not bad price on ak47 and ak74 magazines

www.rpbusa.com -package of 10 sets of followers and floor plates
-low cost ak47 and ak74 magazines.
www.robarm.com -223 magazine follower for ak74 magazine conversion
www.blackjackbuffers.com -buffers and few accessories
http://www.soupbowl.kalashnikov.guns.ru/
www.centerfiresystems.com -nice 4 pack of ak47 magazines with pouch $25
www.northridgeinc.com -nice 4 pack of ak74 bakelite mags with pouch $25

without pistol grip you need 4 parts I believe, with pistol grip 5 parts.

without pistol grip conversion I would pickup a Fire Controll Group[FCG] includes trigger,disconnector and hammer. install the disconnector and hammer 2 parts. next I would replace magazine follower with US made part and the floor plate would get you either 1-2 more parts some controversy over that though, replacing both may count as 1 US part giving 3 some would say other argue it would bring up to 4 if you include the disconnector and hammer.

besides that I would replace the piston which could be bit tricky as it should have a pin in it making removal and install little tricky. gunsmith might do it for low cost. you could replace the standard stock with AK and get another US part though may be weird without pistol grip.

more work required if you want pistol grip. have to remove plate from trigger area and remove old trigger and guts, area where plate was will need refinishing. you may have to cut hole for pistol grip angled nut and the trigger some have trigger hole some dont. [[the hammer install may require some filing to fit from what I have read. ]] the magwell area will require some very slight grinding by catch area then the catch itself needs some filing and then ak mags should fit though you need to install a feedramp.

you can save hundreds by doing the work yourself for the stock,Fire Controll group and pistol grip. you could send the rifle into ak-usa aka ak103.com for work and they do excellent job they can add AK handguards and refinish the rifle and do anythin else you want. AK handguard requires removing front sight base and gas block taking off stock gas tube and replacing with one with grooves and brackets for upper and a bracket is put on barrel and brought back handguards can add up parts count as well.

its a pita to explain it all and understand it all. myself I plan on buying the rifles and parts and adding enough parts to use mags and if AWB does not go I plan on doing some late night work to make a EBR=Evil Black Rifle to piss of a anti.

sorry for long post though if you get the rifle less than $200 and parts for $100 its pretty good deal. sure you could go out and get a wasr10 or sar but the quality differs and the saiga is better.
 
With all due respect, after converting a Saiga, you will find that you have an AK that is head and shoulders above any Romanian AK in terms of quality with costs running not much more than what you would pay for a Romanian. The conversion process is really not that difficult - mine was done with little more than a Dremel tool, a drill and a tap. Using the Dremel to grind off the rivet heads was the bulk of the work followed by using the drill to make the hole for the pistol grip. It does take a few evenings of work, but the results are worth it, IMHO, if not for the simple reason of bringing this bastardized AK back to it's original glory.

As for the FCG, who cares if it isn't Russian - I've got a Red Star Arms FCG that's been tuned and it rivals anything out there today.

Keep at it - it's really worth the effort! :)
 
Just to add a little something to mrapathy2000's post. You can pick up a Gordon Tech U.S. FCG from InRange for $30 shipped. The rest of the conversion parts you can pick up from either K-Var or Global - and all the conversion parts should definitely come in at less than $100.
 
I forgot
www.globaltrade.com

also tapco has a nice kit of parts that has the Gordon Tech parts plus a gas piston and a saw pistol grip for $60 5 parts total. after that a stock from k-var $39.99-$49.99 and your done. want to be extra sure you could get a set of us made followers and base plates for magazines $10 for set of 10 followers and base plates from rpbusa.com. otherwise yes Fire Controll Groups go for $30-$40, Red Star Arms is fancy and goes for nearly $100 its adjustable. pistol grip $10-$15 and stock is $40-60. piston $20. rough price estimates from various websites.

its not brain surgery. dremel,pin punch+mallot,drill or drill press and a file.

a good website on the conversion http://harringt.home.mindspring.com/Pages/kalashnikovs.htm

website made by sheik yerbouti he gets to a few of the forums and is helpfull.

the saiga handguard can grow on you over the ak handguards. latest trick is to drill holes in the saiga handguard and dremil out vent holes to similate AK handguards.
 
http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm
ultimate conversion site...


and here's the law...
(a) No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d)(3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.


(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to:

(1) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for sale or distribution by a licensed manufacturer to the United States or any department or agency thereof or to any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof; or

(2) The assembly of such rifle or shotgun for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Director under the provisions of §178.151; or

(3) The repair of any rifle or shotgun which had been imported into or assembled in the United States prior to November 30, 1990, or the replacement of any part of such firearm.


(c) For purposes of this section, the term "imported parts" are:


(1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings


(2) Barrels


(3) Barrel extensions


(4) Mounting blocks (trunions)


(5) Muzzle attachments


(6) Bolts


(7) Bolt carriers


(8) Operating rods


(9) Gas pistons


(10) Trigger housings


(11) Triggers


(12) Hammers


(13) Sears


(14) Disconnectors


(15) Buttstocks


(16) Pistol grips


(17) Forearms, handguards


(18) Magazine bodies


(19) Followers


(20) Floorplates

[T.D. ATF-346, 58 FR 40589, July 29, 1993]



so if you're converting a saiga, numbers 3,5,8,10,13 don't even count... so you're down to 15 parts that make the list... so you must replace 5 with us made parts, if you want the pistol grip, 4 if you don't...

hardest part for me was the gas piston, don't do it unless you must....
 
I am not sure the word quality and AK can be used at the same time. All the ones I have owned were about the same. Most ran well but shot crappy. If you have seen one AK you have seen them all. Some look nicer but they all seem to function about the same. Just my observations.
Pat
 
355sigfan:

No offense, but you obviously haven't seen too many AK's. There are MANY quality made guns out there at various prices that will both look and shoot well.

This one is a custom built Saiga made for me by AK-USA and shoots under 2MOA with Federal XM193. Workmanship and attention to detail are well above your average AK.


102750.png
 
No person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph
I think this is where people get confused when folks say you need 5 U.S. parts, 10 U.S. parts, whatever. It doesn't matter how many U.S. parts are on the rifle, it's how many of the described imported parts that matter. It's not about addition, it's all about subtraction.

Of course, you need to replace those parts you substracted with domestic functional equivalents if you want a working rifle.
 
No offense, but you obviously haven't seen too many AK's.
END

None taken but your mistaken. Nice ryme. Anyway. I have owned 4 at various times. From Bulgarian guns to the macks. I have also shot some Russian guns and other than cosmetics I can tell much difference in accuracy and function. I hate the safety on these guns. The sights also suck. But their not for everyone. If your happy with yours I am happy.
Pat
 
Thats fair. You are of course entitled to your own opinion, and if you have a personal dislike for some of the AK's features, so be it. I know many who do. After your quality statement above I just wanted to point out that there ARE in fact quality made AK's out there. :) I personally own 3 and have shot and handled many more ranging from factory Romanian guns to full on custom pieces. There is a huge difference in quality between a SARx and one of the offerings from AK-USA, Krebs Custom, etc. While true all function basically the same, there are also varying degrees of accuracy.


Thank you BowStreetRunner for the compliment.
 
well i finally got out to test my conversion....

i used these parts from tapco
http://www.tapco.com./product_information.asp?number=ZAK0651S&variation=&back=yes

i was woried the gas piston would cause problems because it's longer than the saiga piston, but that wasn't the case...

first i tried the saiga 10rnd mag, first round FTF, don't know what happened there... put it back in the mag and tried it again, BANG....

the rifle jammed 2x's on the saiga mag, tried the two bulgarian 30rnd mags.. first one flew by no problems, the second jammed one time..

looks like everything held up... i had to use jb weld to hold the gas piston from backing out of the bolt carrier since i didn't have the tools to drill the satinless, retaining spring is still in place, feed ramp still there... all nuts holding trigger guard and pistol grip are tight... now if i can just get the front handguard screw to stay tight....

the added weight from the mag, or the longer gas piston has slowed the bump fire rate quite a bit...

the g2 trigger is great, it's almost AR-like:eek:

conversion = worth the $

experience = worth the time
 
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