Got pulled over; Officer took my sidearm.

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FMJ, it's not an analogy at all.

The officer illegally entered and viewed the inside of the vehicle. That's a search. The officer (assuming there isn't something we don't know about here) illegally opened and viewed the inside of the trunk. The officer illegally opened and viewed the inside of the gun. Short of laws specifically granting the officer the authority to disarm the guy, illegally uncovered and viewed the inside of the guy's holster. The officer ran the numbers on the gun. All of these things are illegal searches.


So quit with the crap about him not breaking any laws, because he very clearly did break laws.
 
FMJ, it's not an analogy at all.

The officer illegally entered and viewed the inside of the vehicle. That's a search. The officer (assuming there isn't something we don't know about here) illegally opened and viewed the inside of the trunk. The officer illegally opened and viewed the inside of the gun. Short of laws specifically granting the officer the authority to disarm the guy, illegally uncovered and viewed the inside of the guy's holster. The officer ran the numbers on the gun. All of these things are illegal searches.


So quit with the crap about him not breaking any laws, because he very clearly did break laws.
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you're right, what you posted is not an analogy.

if you feel that a LE officer safely securing a pistol through the passenger side of a vehicle is illegal, you should familiarize yourself with the law.

no offense, but you need to learn the law, before trying to argue about it.
 
you're claiming it's illegal for a LE to run the serial number of a pistol??
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Yes, I am. It is illegal to do that without probable cause to believe the gun is stolen. The mere presence of a handgun in the hands of a law abiding citizen is not probable cause to run the search.

This isn't anything new, it's pretty well known stuff. Read up on it. It's a violation of the 4th Amendment, yes. You think we're all just making this stuff up?
 
Full Metal Jacket said:
you're right, what you posted is not an analogy.

if you feel that a LE officer safely securing a pistol through the passenger side of a vehicle is illegal, you should familiarize yourself with the law.

no offense, but you need to learn the law, before trying to argue about it.
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I was just about to say the same thing to you.
 
he was probably looking for hoffa, or the guy on the grassy knoll, rather than properly securing a gun for his safety till he left the scene.
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Everything he did INCREASED any imaginary danger to him.

Either he was blitheringly incompetent or he had another agenda.
 
he was probably looking for hoffa, or the guy on the grassy knoll, rather than properly securing a gun for his safety till he left the scene.
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How does running the gun's serial number make the officer safer? Is a stolen gun already in the officer's possession more likely to shoot an officer than a non stolen gun?

Does the officer search EVERY car for a weapon? Probably not. Unless I inform the officer I have a weapon, I have NEVER been searched during a traffic stop. Absent probable cause, this officer conducted an unlawful search.

You are close. He wasn't searching for Hoffa or the guy on the grassy knoll, he was looking for a reason to arrest the driver of the vehicle, and conducting an illegal search in the process. He was using the thinnest of excuses to get into the trunk and passenger compartment of the vehicle.
 
funny they run everygun they handle here. what law are they breaking? got a case law reference? or is this just on the internet
 
cassandrasdaddy said:
funny they run everygun they handle here. what law are they breaking? got a case law reference? or is this just on the internet
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Do they also check the serial numbers of every cell phone they come across, why not?

And you know what? Everyone of those "checks" shows up as a crime gun in the Anti's propaganda. They usually uses the total number of guns 'traced' as 'crime guns'.
 
funny they run everygun they handle here. what law are they breaking? got a case law reference? or is this just on the internet
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I'm also curious if there is any case law requiring the police to obtain a search warrant or consent before they run a gun's serial number. It doesn't seem any different than running a car's license plate number or running a person's driver's license number.
The solution to that is to cover the serial number with opaque tape. It removes any pretense of "plain sight" and is perfectly legal.
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That sounds like a clever idea. Has it ever been used before?
 
cassandrasdaddy said:
funny they run everygun they handle here. what law are they breaking? got a case law reference? or is this just on the internet
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It's called unreasonable search and seizure. Let's say you're a LEO and you encounter a citizen stopped on the side of the road changing a tire. You stop to help and because you're in a must-disclose state you tell the LEO that you're a CWP holder and you're carrying. If the LEO demands your weapon and you surrender it, and he runs the SN and finds it stolen then what?

The courts can't convict you for possession of stolen property, because he had no probable cause to believe the gun was anything other than lawfully possessed. So why even bother? It's just to open the door to further search and interrogation. The only possible argument the Prosecutor would have was that you voluntarily surrendered your firearm, so the search (running the SN) was legal. That's why you should never voluntarily give up the weapon, allow any search, or answer any questions.

If you think that's paranoid, I seem to recall someone posting recently that they came into lawful possession of a gun that three weeks later turned up on a list of stolen property. What if he, being a cooperative and law-abiding citizen, had surrendered that firearm during a traffic stop and the LEO had run the numbers and found the gun on a hot list? I can guarantee you that he wouldn't have been treated courteously and it would have cost him a fair amount of money to get the charges dropped. All because of an illegal search.
 
so, you're saying that if you were a LE officer, you would consider a gun to be an imagined threat to you?
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Given his actual behavior, he didn't consider the gun, the car OR the driver a real threat.

Of course if somebody's got an apparently valid CHL and isn't doing anything threatening with the gun, it's less of a threat leaving it where it is.

As I said, he was either pathetically incompetent at his job, or he wasn't REALLY afraid of the gun.
 
That sounds like a clever idea. Has it ever been used before?
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I believe I first saw it on the PAFOA website. PA cops have a disturbing tendency to run guns against their gun registry that's not "really" a gun registry, which if it were a gun registry, would be illegal.
 
Phatty said:
I'm also curious if there is any case law requiring the police to obtain a search warrant or consent before they run a gun's serial number. It doesn't seem any different than running a car's license plate number or running a person's driver's license number.

That sounds like a clever idea. Has it ever been used before?
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The traffic stop is PC for running the plate. LEO can't just call plates in at random hoping to hit the lottery, there has to be PC or reasonable suspicion.
 
Do they also check the serial numbers of every cell phone they come across, why not?
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Reason #1: Cell phones are not legally required to be marked with serial numbers on their exterior surfce.
Reason #2: Cell phones are not marked with a serial number on their exterior surface.
Reason #3: No database exists with a listing of stolen cell phones or cell phones that were used in the commission of a crime.
Reason #4: If such a database did exist, police do not have access to the database in their police vehicles to perform a query.

I'm sure the police would perform such a search if they had access in their police vehicles to a database that reported whether a cell phone was stolen or used in the commission of a crime.
 
I'm sure the police would perform such a search if they had access in their police vehicles to a database that reported whether a cell phone was stolen or used in the commission of a crime.
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What SPECIFIC crime did the LEO articulate that the OP had committed with that firearm?
 
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