Got some vertical stringing

[LiveLife]

How can I fix it?

For me, trigger control, trigger job, making sure all the scope ring/mount bolts and nuts were tight and using lead sled that better secured the rear of stock helped.

But as you can see from the group pictures, diagonal vertical stringing persists.

And as I pursue 200-300 yard groups with my ARs, I am anticipating more diagonal vertical stringing even with heavy .223 bulets (I am human after all).

 

[Axis II]

Couple things IMHO . I think the idea of bedding the action and a consistent action screw torque would do wonders .

What x scope are you using ? I can get all kinds of "stringing" with low power scopes 9x or less . It's just harder to hold in the exact same spot the longer the shot is . I can shoot ok groups but need high magnification to be precise . Reticle size can play a factor as well but these are secondary issues to a solid rifle , good load and skill level .

6-18 vortex

 

[Varminterror]

How can I fix it?

The first thing I do if I suspect stringing is shoot high count groups, and a few of them. Stringing will always string. If stringing is barrel walk, then the test is easy - shoot a hot string and a cold string. If the hot string walks and the cold doesn’t… I don’t honestly believe any longer in vertical stringing at only 100yrds being an indicator of a load being outside of a charge weight node, but it’s easy to confirm the node. If I eliminate hot walking and know I’m in a charge node, and the stringing doesn’t always string in my multiple high count group test, then it points me towards trigger management and NPOA. If I’m muscling onto target, I’ll cause stringing, or if I’m pushing inconsistent shoulder pressure, or too much trigger finger… all about the shooter at that point, however.

 

[Walkalong]

Controlling recoil consistently is key.

 

[misser]

He's talking about the barrel moving when it changes temperature and maybe contacting the stock. Run a dollar bill down the barrel chancel and see if it touches the stock anyplace.

I would also look at the muzzle crown and possibly redo it.

thats only .004 !

 

[joneb]

Does anyone have the long list of the variables that effect accuracy ?
When I try to solve a problem I look for the easy and cheapest fix.
So a list of solutions for improving accuracy from easy to hard would be great.
I guess for me the LOP issue made a big difference with a couple rifles but this is not always the issue.

 

[Varminterror]

Does anyone have the long list of the variables that effect accuracy ?
When I try to solve a problem I look for the easy and cheapest fix.
So a list of solutions for improving accuracy from easy to hard would great.

We put together a prioritization of items a while back in a thread - I’d have to search a bit, since it might have been 2-3 years ago by now…

But many of us discussed the “big knobs” of reloading versus the little knobs, and the knobs which simply don’t matter enough to ever turn unless you’re a benchrest shooter, and maybe not even then.

For me:

Big Knobs
• Quality of bullet
• Twist of the barrel to match the bullet & speed
• Fit of powder for bullet weight in the cartridge
• Neck Tension (just buy good brass, don’t turn necks)
• charge weight
• Matching headstamp/lot of brass

Little knobs
• seating depth
• Primer selection

Knobs not worth turning
• Weight sorting bullets
• Weight sorting brass
• Uniforming flash holes
• Uniforming pockets
• meplat uniforming
• pointing bullets
• the sum of any other damned thing reloaders convince themselves to do which have about as much influence as singing songs and stomping their feet three times with every pull of the ram handle.

 

[joneb]

We put together a prioritization of items a while back in a thread

So I will assume these knobs assume the shooter's gun is a good fit?

 

[Varminterror]

So I will assume these knobs assume the shooter's gun is a good fit?

And that the sky is blue, and that fire is hot…

 

[AJC1]

So I will assume these knobs assume the shooter's gun is a good fit?

Those are material and procedural. The shooter and other variables cannot be directly addressed and controlled in the same way.

 

[AJC1]

And that the sky is blue, and that fire is hot…

But weight sorting primers didn't make your list. I find that one way down the rabbit hole.

 

[Varminterror]

But weight sorting primers didn't make your list. I find that one way down the rabbit hole.

Been a long weekend…

File weight sorting primers under the catch-all of “every other damned fool thing reloaders do” in the worthless knobs group…

 

[Walkalong]

Bullet, barrel, action, powder type/charge weight, sometimes primers, nice trigger, good or better glass, nut behind the trigger.

The cheapest, easiest, most influential change is fixing us.

When you get all that fixed and 1/2” groups bore you, play with small stuff.

 

[thump_rrr]

play with your action screw torque pressure , go up and or down in 2 or 3 lb increments. from about 30 lbs up to as much as 65 , if its synthetic stocked. up to about 50 if you have a wood stock .

Just to be crystal clear that's inch pounds and NOT foot pounds.

 

[Blue68f100]

Bullet, barrel, action, powder type/charge weight, sometimes primers, nice trigger, good or better glass, nut behind the trigger.

The cheapest, easiest, most influential change is fixing us.

When you get all that fixed and 1/2” groups bore you, play with small stuff.

I like boring..........

 

[JFrank]

The groups are not erratic, the tendency is vertical in all three groups and when this happens I can usually tune it out by double checking my charge and seating depth , if erratic i look straight to neck tension.
Below is a sample of how subtle seating changes can affect group shape

 

[Axis II]

The groups are not erratic, the tendency is vertical in all three groups and when this happens I can usually tune it out by double checking my charge and seating depth , if erratic i look straight to neck tension.
Below is a sample of how subtle seating changes can affect group shape

I trickled them to 25.3gr and checked OAL with a comparator. Could anything else cause my issues? I loaded these about a year ago. I’ll pull several and double check.

 

[Axis II]

Well found out today my barrel is not free floated. It touches about 5” down the stock. Looks like I’ve got some work to do.

 

[Nature Boy]

We put together a prioritization of items a while back in a thread - I’d have to search a bit, since it might have been 2-3 years ago by now…

But many of us discussed the “big knobs” of reloading versus the little knobs, and the knobs which simply don’t matter enough to ever turn unless you’re a benchrest shooter, and maybe not even then.

For me:

Big Knobs
• Quality of bullet
• Twist of the barrel to match the bullet & speed
• Fit of powder for bullet weight in the cartridge
• Neck Tension (just buy good brass, don’t turn necks)
• charge weight
• Matching headstamp/lot of brass

Little knobs
• seating depth
• Primer selection

Knobs not worth turning
• Weight sorting bullets
• Weight sorting brass
• Uniforming flash holes
• Uniforming pockets
• meplat uniforming
• pointing bullets
• the sum of any other damned thing reloaders convince themselves to do which have about as much influence as singing songs and stomping their feet three times with every pull of the ram handle.

^ 100% ^

 

[JFrank]

Been a long weekend…

File weight sorting primers under the catch-all of “every other damned fool thing reloaders do” in the worthless knobs group…

Maybe not in the PRS game.
I can’t say sorting primers is worthless, I can say that it can be looked at as a next level, I don’t want leave accuracy at home so if sorting primers helps I’m interested in not only weight sorting but uniformed pockets coupled with a uniform and tested primer depth can pay dividends in consistency. I would encourage shooters to test for them selves.

 

[doubleh]

I didn't see where the question was raised asking if the rifle only does it with this load and doesn't with others. I might have just missed it. If it does it with everything it could be the rifle, a you problem, or a combination of both. If only with this load then I would start developing the load and see what happens. In both cases I would explore just how consistent I was holding the rifle from shot to shot. Just a little difference can make a big impact on where your shot hits.

 

[Metal God]

You should open up the barrel channel on the stock and bed the action at the same time . Sticky sandpaper stuck around the proper size dowel works well for me YMMV . Did that with my Ruger American and really gave it some room .

 

[Varminterror]

@South Prairie Jim - what was your reduction in agg score between not weight sorting primers vs. sorting? Or was it across the chronograph - how much did your ES shrink?

Even behind a Panda, I couldn’t shoot the difference in weight sorting BR2’s or 4’s, personally. I know it made me feel better that I had done everything I could think to do, but I couldn’t manifest objective improvement with it. I just felt more ownership of my bad groups.

 

[Axis II]

You should open up the barrel channel on the stock and bed the action at the same time . Sticky sandpaper stuck around the proper size dowel works well for me YMMV . Did that with my Ruger American and really gave it some room .

View attachment 1066838

Couldn’t find any dowels not crooked so I did even passes on each side of the inside of the stock with 80grit. I’ve got it where I can slide a piece of computer paper smoothly to the barrel nut.

I’ve got a retired gunsmith close who does custom rifles but he’s super slow. I don’t trust myself bedding it so I will have him do it after summer when I no longer need the gun.

 

[Axis II]

I didn't see where the question was raised asking if the rifle only does it with this load and doesn't with others. I might have just missed it. If it does it with everything it could be the rifle, a you problem, or a combination of both. If only with this load then I would start developing the load and see what happens. In both cases I would explore just how consistent I was holding the rifle from shot to shot. Just a little difference can make a big impact on where your shot hits.

Haven’t tested other bullets. I am in the process of load development with 69gr SMK and 75gr hornady and varget. Once I find what shoots good at 100yards I’ll test both at 200 and 300.