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Grizzly kills couple at Alaska campsite

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by cookekdjr, Jun 27, 2005.

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  1. cookekdjr

    cookekdjr Member

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    I don't know what "unused firearm" they had with them, or how close it was to them, so having a big handgun next to them may not have made a difference. But this story should remind us that the first rule of firearm protection is...to have a gun ready.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8371132/

    -David
     
  2. sturmruger

    sturmruger Member

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    What a sad story. They were just sitting in their tent when Mr. Grizzly jumped on their tent. You would have thought they heard him coming into camp.
     
  3. CentralTexas

    CentralTexas Member

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    I might react the same way

    If I realized two people were sitting in my backyard at night.
    CT
     
  4. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Member

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    A good alert dog is invaluable in situations like this.

    Pilgrim
     
  5. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    when a bear doesnt want to be heard, no one will hear it.
     
  6. black bear

    black bear Member

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    I wonder what the firearm was and how much time, if any they have to repel the attack, it is my theory that there should have been some time while the bear is killing one person for the other to shoot at the bear.

    The case of Timothy Treadwell (author of Among Grizzlies) and Amie Huguenard that were killed and eaten by a Grizzly in October 2003 in Alaska’s Kaflia Bay demonstrated that there was plenty of time for a gun to have been used (no gun was available) thanks to a video camera left on that recorded the panic struggle of both people (on sound only) and the subsequent feeding noises that the bear was making.

    Bears, being nocturnal, mostly attack when people are sleeping and secured in their bags. I always advocate the use of an early prevention system, and a kit capable to repel an attacking bear.

    In the picture you can see my kit, consisting of a screaming siren that is attached with Para-cord to the perimeter of the campsite. Also the newer addition of the Driveway Patrol Infrared Sensor, available thru Heartland catalogue and in the $30.00 range.

    The Colt Anaconda in .44 Magnum will be okay to repel an attacking black bear. If I were camping in Alaska I will want to upgrade to a .45 Casull or one of the Bowen Custom revolvers.
    Also I think that having a Marlin 450 or 45-70 with custom loads will not be too much out of line when camping and hiking in Grizzly territory.

    bearkit.jpg

    The flashlight is not the regular Maglite 3 “D” that output 39 lumens but a special modification I do that outputs 951 lumens, making it the most powerful flashlight in the world. (I am selling my modifications to members of this Forum) and I am also running a contest giving one for free in the Contest and Group Buys Forum.

    I have camped in the wild for many years and I have had a few encounters with black bears. They can be very unpredictable and you never will know when they will decide to make trouble for you.

    Better be prepared.

    Best regards,
    Black bear
     
  7. KAR120C

    KAR120C Member

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    So Treadwell is dead, eaten by a bear. Ironic. I just finished reading his book this past weeken, notice it was written in 1996, and wondered if he had kept up his "living with the bears" ways, and if so whether he was still alive.
     
  8. Crosshair

    Crosshair Member

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    Some cotton string and empty cans with rocks in them make a good early warning system. Did they keep their food in the tent? Don't bears usualy go for that first?
     
  9. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Eh? What? Speak up, would you? Stop mumbling, for heaven's sake!

    Seriously: I might well not have heard a bear, especially if it happened to be in a quiet mood.
     
  10. Malone LaVeigh

    Malone LaVeigh Member

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    Absence of standard gratuitous "Bliss ninnies should have had more firepower" drivel gratefully noted.

    Blackbear:

    That's a ridiculous amount of overkill for camping in black bear country. I'd have thought you were camping among dinosaurs or something. Why don't you just pack along a gunsafe and sleep in it? :rolleyes:
     
  11. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Malone, blissninnies should not have ANY firepower.

    Blissninnies, it's what's for dinner. :D
     
  12. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    amount of firepower only applies when the persons have the time to utilize it.

    out of a dead sleep, who among us could honestly say they could 1. find the weapon; 2. zero in on the threat; 3. get adequate hits on the threat to stop it?

    and furthermore, i dont recall ever hearing any campers/hunters/fishers standing watch throughout the night.

    i would hope that this tragedy does help others strive to be more diligent. but what else could they have done? they followed all the suggestions for camping in bear territory.
     
  13. black bear

    black bear Member

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    My kit is composed of the early warning system (to wake me up) and the MAG 951 flashlight and the .44 Magnum revolver (to deal with the thread)
    If a .44 Magnum is too much for you what you use for defence in bear country, a Beretta .22???
    Or you plan to wrestle them down?
    Gun safe don't fit my holster and I back pack into bear country.

    I also use these!!

    Glacierbearand742.jpg

    cheers
    black bear
     
  14. Wayne D

    Wayne D Member

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    Add to that the fact that you're still in your sleeping bag and the tent has collapsed on you too. From what I've read of bear attacks, bears like to swat with their paws which would further entangle you in the bag and tent. It's dark, you're rolled up in a tent and sleeping bag, you're in severe pain, you're disoriented, even if you managed to get your hand on the gun could you point it and fire it, would you even be able to tell which direction to point it?

    I think the best early warning defense would be a dog. The barking would wake you up, and you would have plenty of time to shoot the bear while it was eating the dog.
     
  15. Tag

    Tag Member

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    A good dog and a rifle thanks.

    I've seen village dogs that will pester/annoy/run-off a big bear. There is nothing better for camping, or walking down a dark path after sunset in grizzley/kodiak territory, then a good dog.

    A shotgun or other long gun in 30-06 or better is a good bet also.

    PS. As to being jumped in your sleep by one of these monsters... :what:

    slim chance you could do anything.
     
  16. Selfdfenz

    Selfdfenz Member

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    Perhaps one could do this...
    Maybe that....
    Have a gun....have enough gun.....etc etc

    To me the best thing they could have done is not been in big bear county in a tent....

    S-


    S-
     
  17. birddog

    birddog Member

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    When I was bear hunting in Maine last year, we were remote-camping deep in bear country. Twice, I heard animals in camp (second night we spotted two coyotes that were likely the culprits). When I heard sniffing outside my tent the first night, I had NO trouble locating the 629 .44 mag under my cot. It was in my hand so fast you would have thought I had it on a string. If that was grizzly country and one suddenly ripped into my tent, I think I would have at least had a fighting chance.
     
  18. pezo

    pezo Member

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    That Tim treadwell and his girlfriend should have won an "idiot" award.
     
  19. Akusp

    Akusp Member

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    Black Bear... those are some nice looking pups on the wall. Ever shoot a real bear?? :neener:
     
  20. MICHAEL T

    MICHAEL T Member

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    Don't play in their yard and you won't get hurt. We don't want them in our cities and they don't want us in their woods.
     
  21. stevelyn

    stevelyn Member

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    The incident took place in the ANWR. For those of you unfamiliar with tundra, it's like a giant green shag carpet that you sink up over your ankles in. It's primarily made of moss and peat. The entire state is covered with it to one degree or another. Consider the fact that the people inside the tent were all snug in their sleeping bags, and you won't hear anything or anybody approach. It's very likely that once the attack commenced no one had the presence of mind to go after the gun.


    "Nocturnal" is pretty meaningless when the sun dosen't go below the horizon from April-August.

    The entire state is big bear country. Polar bears along the Arctic coast, grizzlies and black bears in the interior, grizzlies on the arctic slope and Brooks Range, coastal brown and black bears in Southeast, coastal browns on the AK Pen, Kodiak and the Aleutians. They even show up in urban areas like the Anchorage hillside. It's not practical or possible to drag a cabin or motor home to all the places one would wish to visit. To enjoy this place you have to take some risks ............... risks that could get you injured or killed. There are things you can do to minimize those risks, but you can still do everything right and still get your arse killed.
    Personally I prefer to takes my chances and enjoy what this place has to offer and not be a slave to any fears of what might happen. If I get whacked while enjoying those pursuits oh well, maybe I'll be rich in my next life and not have to work for a living.
     
  22. Malone LaVeigh

    Malone LaVeigh Member

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    I've worked in "bear country" for the last 14 years, which has included daily field work in all seasons and occasional camping. I have also hiked, hunted, rafted and backpacked all over the California Sierras for recreation.

    I have never felt a need to carry anything specifically for bear protection. Occasionally, I have camped with firearms, but it wasn't because I thought black bears are a threat. One of my favorite camping spots on the Mendocino NF is within 100 yards of a bear wallow where I saw the biggest bear I have ever seen in the wild. Last time I camped there, I thought I'd stroll down to the bear wallow to see what was there about dusk. Scared the aforementioned large bear, which ran away from me as fast as it could.

    I have seen scores of bear in the woods, usually during my work, and see scat almost every single time I go out in my current position on the Mendocino. Every bear I have ever seen in the wild was traveling in the opposite direction as fast as it could.

    I usually carry something metalic for making noise if I'm backpacking, but on the job, nothing more than a notebook, pencil, binocs, tape measure, water bottle and a clinometer.

    None of the above applies to grizzly bears, of course.
     
  23. trapperjohn

    trapperjohn Member

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    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :barf:
     
  24. scotjute

    scotjute Member

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    The interesting problem as I see it, is the design of a tent that is at least resistant to grizzly bear penetration and yet is still light enough to be portable.
    It should be resistant to determined bear efforts to get in for at a couple of minutes, given the occupants time to wake-up and apply counter-measures if they have any.
    Given the power of a grizzly, this won't be easy.

    Another observation is that perhaps one should not zip up in a sleeping bag in bear country, but simply unzip the bag and place it on top of you. Getting out of a zipped up bag can be a hassle for 2-3 minutes even if a bear is not trying to eat you.
     
  25. KAR120C

    KAR120C Member

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    Many of you are missing the point/off track. They weren't killed in their tent. Treadwell got out of the tent. Tried to scare the bear off by yelling, then the bear attacked. The attack lasted several minutes. His companion was uninjured for the first part of it and could easilly have retrieved and fired a gun, if they'd had one. Or she could have used bear mace. Treadwell himself successfully used bear mace at this same location (the maze) years earlier, against a bear he named Deamon. For some reason he gave up carrying bear mace after that.

    Also, they weren't just camping "in the woods" where a bear might wander by every few days or so. The were intentionally camping in a prime fishing area for bears, to observe them. Teadwell sought out areas of intense bear concentration so he could watch them. They would see 10's of bears every day. Bears would frequently sleep around them, as in 10's of feet away. Treadwell would talk and sing to the bears, to establish "relationships" with them.
     
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