Grumpy old man...

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My favorite is a newby wanting anecdotal data on a new powder that is just finally appearing in the supply chain.
Can’t understand why there isn’t proven data available for their newly released super ultra whiz-bang magnum, when the powder is obviously intended for the .223/.308 class cartridges.

I’m still not “sold” on the “new” Varget and Reloader15. Still lamenting the demise of SR4759 (again!).

I suppose I too am a “grumpy old man” .
We use to call it wisdom and experience. Now it’s just “stuck in the past”...
Never mind that the 6.5Creedmoor and 6.5Grendel (my favorite!) duplicate cartridges over 100yrs old...

In the “bad old days” we just loaded up what Jack O’Conner, Col. Askins, P.O.Ackley, or, heaven forbid, Elmer Keith said they used... or, whatever the dipper that came with the Lee loader dispensed.
Those were simpler days...
 
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Guess I can remember being in this same boat not so long ago. Not that I was completely new but it had been many years and Bullseye powder was made by Hercules.

I restarted with the 9mm and read much on the forums I could find. Right away I learned that 115gr and 124gr were the most common weight for a 9mm bullet. Powders were all over the place and there wasn't then like now still a concurrence on which is "Best". Probably because "Best " means very different things to many different people. So when I asked the question I was looking more for a generally accepted powder that was reliable and easy to use. As is with one topic that is currently on the forum the general consensus seems to be 231/HP-38. Which is also what I started with. I was grateful for the direction and on my own could have easily started with a powder that wasn't as good a choice. Like I would never suggest to someone just starting to reload to go out and buy Titegroup. My view is that it is just to volatile and spikes too quickly for the new user. Same as I see a few very interesting loads for 800X but again I wouldn't suggest it to a new reloader.

One of my responses in this most recent topic of Best Powder I relied that it would be easier to list the powders that DO NOT work than the ones that Do.
 
Gramp filled his case up to the neck with the stuff you got out of the bin at the local hardware...the case was his dipper :what: of course, he also bent his shotgun in the v of a small tree so he wouldn't miss that rabbit again...simpler days...
 
I haven't been reloading as long as a lot of people here but I don't mind sharing what little I know.
If I was a newbie I could look at Hodgdons data (just picked Hodgdon but fill in the blank for a powder company)
and find for 9mm
125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon Longshot .355" 1.090" 4.7 1022 28,100 PSI 5.7 1162 33,400 PSI
and
125 GR. SIE FMJ Winchester 231 .355" 1.090" 4.4 1009 24,600 CUP 4.8 1088 28,800 CUP
so not knowing any better I might possibly think, wow, Longshot would be a better choice because I could load it light for plinkers and get much more velocity on top for full power loads.
(and maybe it just happens Longshot is all my local LGS has on the shelf, just so happens that's why I used it in 9mm, last shortage it was take what you could get, and I could get Longshot, learned to stock up as much as is legal afterwards)
A reloading manual might or might not give me info that would lead me to believe the Start charge of Longshot would not make good plinkers, but I doubt that any would say outright that for this load HP38/W231 would be a much better choice.
Same Hodgdon data
125 FMJ Winchester WSF 0.355 1.16 4.7 1015 27,700 PSI 5.3 1115 32,700 PSI
So looking at this the start charge for WSF is 4.7.
I happen to like about 4.4-4.5 with a RMR 124 MPR for a 125 PF load for matches, shoots well for me.
So WSF (at least for me) works decent at the start of it's charge range while at least for me Longshot was not happy at all until I got to the higher/highest side of it's charge range.

Yes the new reloader could search and probably find out Longshot would not be a good choice for say 125 PF loads.

I don't see anything wrong with asking a question. Asking questions is how we learn. (we can also learn from mistakes {hopefully}).

I tend to go along with the there is no such thing as a stupid question only stupid answers. (however if you try hard enough you can come up with a stupid questions....)

PS
I could also look at this and think Longshot might be a good choice for .45
230 GR. HDY FMJ FP Hodgdon Longshot .451" 1.200" 6.3 848 14,100 CUP 6.8 908 17,200 CUP

Yes it works but it's not happy in .45 at all IMO.
 
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By the same vein of thinking if you bought a reloading book or look at any information from powder producers that would make you quite the hypocrite as you not only had to ask someone to do the learning for you you paid for it as well. Nevertheless nothing promotes our hobby of firearms from all things involved more than bashing someone for being interested and asking questions. How dare anyone hope to gain some knowledge any other way than starting from scratch and spending as much money as possible to come to a conclusion on their own. Yes by all means discourage anyone from asking questions such as how well does this powder work with this caliber at a particular bullet weight and velocity range. You either figure it out on your own or you do without.
I have yet to figure out why people that are too grumpy for their own good want to trash other people, you don’t want to help or be helped why are you here. If all you have is negative keep it to yourself. When someone asks a question and they get the “ we have a search option” response that does so much to encourage new people in the hobby.
In case no one has realized it we need all the people we can get and once folks get accepted and helped they do start to dig deeper and learn more but it all starts with questions and help.
 
I’m not old, I’m just grumpy-ing prematurely.
I read every loading manual I could get my hands on, and read through nearly the entire archive here, before I ever signed up, or even setup my reloading bench.
I’ve asked some stupid questions, but geez, sometimes I think that posting a question here was their first step into reloading.

the internet has made us all lazy about some things
 
I'm not sure how anyone sifts thru all of the voluntary information from one of these forums. In some cases the information may not be published, online or print, and some questions to the general public may be helpful. With most modern cartridge ammo, the ones you can find at Cabelas, there is enough information on reloading those cartridges that all one needs to do is read a manual and pick up a pound of powder. Generally it will be adequate for the purpose it was intended. You can always go down a rabbit hole with powder and bullets seeking that magic combination but for the average reloader many powders and bullets will work. If you happen to be into precision rifle or some other nonsense then you probably need to explore the knowledge base on the internet. That's going to require a bunch of testing anyway so those reloaders already know some work is required to optimize their precision.

During the great powder famine of 08 and 09 many people had to use what they could find or what they already had. I had powder that had no published data for the cartridges I wanted to load. I asked a few questions on a forum and found some people who were doing what I wanted to do. Bingo, I found a very good powder that up until that time wasn't considered a good pistol powder, but it's actually an exceptional pistol powder and I still use it today. I just bought 8 lbs of it.

Now we're likely to go into another powder shortage so these suitable powder questions can be answered here. But for the most part the information is already published so get a loading manual and read it. You're going to need one anyway.

Grumpy old Boomer.
 
The original post made me think "What would RCModel Do?". I thought he was helpful towards everyone, new reloaders and old.

I have to admit, when someone asks the question about a "good" powder for a specific caliber, I'll often give it a quick read to see if there's anything new I might pick up from it. No one has endless resources for testing, and sometimes it's the guys & gals out doing their thing that make great discoveries.
 
how well does this powder work with this caliber at a particular bullet weight and velocity range. You either figure it out on your own or you do without.
Click to expand...

If it's in a manual it works pretty well. Bullet companies tested it with their bullets and published the data. They have equipment to test pressures and velocity that very few people have access to. Roll with it, it's gospel.

If you want to try something else then by all means, but remember if you got it from a forum, you may have got it from a Russian or the Taliban. ;)
 
I don't think I'm grumpy but Mrs 40 does. What little hair I have left is gray.

Judging from the 20 somethings that I know from work, I'm really really glad that so many questions are getting asked. Some of these folks are babes in the woods and need our guidance. I was really fortunate to have a Navy Master Chief show me the ropes back in the '80s. Paying it forward.


.40
 
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CoalTrain49 said:
If it's in a manual it works pretty well. Bullet companies tested it with their bullets and published the data. They have equipment to test pressures and velocity that very few people have access to. Roll with it, it's gospel.

If you want to try something else then by all means, but remember if you got it from a forum, you may have got it from a Russian or the Taliban. ;)
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I beg to differ on that as there are many loads that are dirty, inefficient and with high extreme spreads until you get into the sweet spot. Loaded several powders at book start that I though this is junk and it was until it got the pressure up and turned into a good load. Still at beginning book value it was crap.
 
Look, asking "What's the best powder...." is a different question than "What's the better choice out of these 4 powders....?"

The former indicates (to me) that someone doesn't want to do basic research.
The latter indicates (again, to me) that someone has researched some options, but is a bit in the dark as to which is best suited.

I am more apt to go out of my way to help someone who has, at least, taken a few steps themselves.
 
Texas10mm said:
I'm guessing that almost all of these threads are started by new reloaders. People who haven't actually read a reloading manual. They might have one manual...maybe. Most of them are younger people who feel the need for social approval.
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I've been reloading for about 35 years. Recently, I asked a question on another forum about using H335 in the M1a (7.62mm.) It's interesting how people perceive a simple question. Some people just answer the question, of course there are others that have done what I was pondering and offer their experiences (which was what I was looking for,) and still others berated me because the answer was right there in the loading manual. As far as loading data, just because it's in a manual, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best avenue to a goal. Will it work? Sure... there's data there, so someone had to have worked it up at one time or another, but it may not be the best round peg solution to your square hole question.

Personal experiences in handloading are about as valuable as data in a book, when viewed appropriately. How a powder, like TiteGroup for example, behaves in any given cartridge is NOT in the books... but there sure is a lot of experience here on how it behaves... why would you want to ignore it?
 
Texas10mm said:
Maybe I am one, but the constant "what's a good powder", what's the "best powder" threads really rub me the wrong way.

I'm guessing that almost all of these threads are started by new reloaders. People who haven't actually read a reloading manual. They might have one manual...maybe. Most of them are younger people who feel the need for social approval.

1. There are many "good powders" for every application. I've loaded 45 ACP with over 30 different powders. Of that number at least two dozen of them were "good".
2. What is the "best" powder for one person could well be the "worst" powder for another.
3. Buy some manuals. Read them.
4. Compile a list of powders that have data for the bullet you're going to load.
5. Now go and see which of those powders are available. Buy at least three of them.
6. Load up some test loads and see which powders work best for you.

Congratulations, you've answered your question.
Click to expand...

When I started reloading, I asked questions like that. It's because I just dropped a lot of money on reloading equipment and didn't want to spend $100 on powder before I even started. I don't see the trouble with asking people what's worked for them. Your assumption that they haven't read a manual is baseless... and irrelevant.

Maybe you were totally self reliant when you started reloading but I for one like helping to get people new to the hobby started and if that means recommending a powder I've had good experiences with I guess I won't get all riled up about it.
 
Iwsbull said:
By the same vein of thinking if you bought a reloading book or look at any information from powder producers that would make you quite the hypocrite as you not only had to ask someone to do the learning for you you paid for it as well. Nevertheless nothing promotes our hobby of firearms from all things involved more than bashing someone for being interested and asking questions. How dare anyone hope to gain some knowledge any other way than starting from scratch and spending as much money as possible to come to a conclusion on their own. Yes by all means discourage anyone from asking questions such as how well does this powder work with this caliber at a particular bullet weight and velocity range. You either figure it out on your own or you do without.
I have yet to figure out why people that are too grumpy for their own good want to trash other people, you don’t want to help or be helped why are you here. If all you have is negative keep it to yourself. When someone asks a question and they get the “ we have a search option” response that does so much to encourage new people in the hobby.
In case no one has realized it we need all the people we can get and once folks get accepted and helped they do start to dig deeper and learn more but it all starts with questions and help.
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I'm not buying what you're selling and you can justify someone being lazy all you want. We live in an information age where the phone or computer that they're sitting at will provide them enough information for years to read about. If they have a question about some information that they learned or they're having a problem that's completely different. Maybe they should ask for someone to be a mentor. We're playing with things that can kill you and some personal responsibility in learning and being safe is required.
 
How a powder, like TiteGroup for example, behaves in any given cartridge is NOT in the books
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Great example of something not found in a manual.
Lots of people like Titegroup ( I don't care for it much) but a newbie might think it was a good choice because it would be cheaper (small charges)

The .3 gr dif between min and max should be a hint it was not a good choice for a new reloader but
125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon Titegroup .355" 1.090" 4.1 1069 27,300 CUP 4.4 1136 30,600 CUP
125 GR. SIE FMJ IMR SR 4756 .355" 1.090" 4.5 973 25,700 PSI 4.9 1037 28,700 PSI
So 4756 (no longer with us :() only shows a .4 gr diff.

If a new reloader only had those 2 choices (for whatever reason) I would think most of us would say it would be far better to start with 4756.

First 9mm powder I used was Universal, I choose it because I was using a Lee Auto disk and from doing VMD calcs it looked like I had two disk sizes that would throw charges in the load range for the bullet I was using.
Maybe a strange way to choose a powder but it seemed to make sense to me at the time. (also it had a decent diff min to max and was in the middle of burn speeds for 9mm powders, but the 2 disks that worked drove the decision)

I would go so far as to say not asking questions might be considered being lazy.
 
BTW
"What is the Best powder"
might be a poor use of the English language, good or like might be a better choice,
and a more detailed question would be helpful in most cases,
"What is a good powder for 125 PF 9mm loads" or "what is a good powder for full power 9mm loads with a 147gr bullet"
or better still
"What powder do you like for 9mm 125 PF loads"

Just me maybe but I read Best and translate it to what do you like, what's worked well for you.
English was never my strong point in school however.
 
Dudedog said:
BTW
"What is the Best powder"
might be a poor use of the English language, good or like might be a better choice,
and a more detailed question would be helpful in most cases,
"What is a good powder for 125 PF 9mm loads" or "what is a good powder for full power 9mm loads with a 147gr bullet"
or better still
"What powder do you like for 9mm 125 PF loads"

Just me maybe but I read Best and translate it to what do you like, what's worked well for you.
English was never my strong point in school however.
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I agree exactly with what you're saying. The question needs to have at least some information to give any quality feedback. Things like I'm shooting a hundred and fifteen grain RMR match-winner in a Glock pistol with Federal primers and mixed brass. I am considering the following three powders titegroup unique and bullseye. What would be the better choice
 
Walkalong said:
Back when a lot of us started reloading there wasn't the vast choice of powders as there is today. It must be overwhelming for new reloaders trying to decide what to try first.
Click to expand...

I started last fall and the amount of options was mind boggling. I ended up looking at all of the cartridges I wanted to reload for and picking a powder that gave me a decent min-max spread and worked for several of those. That, and recommendations from gracious THR members who were welcoming to us greenhorns. For that I'm very grateful.
 
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