Gun Auction Hi Jinks?

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Redcoat3340

Redcoat3340

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Anyone ever get the feeling that sellers might have proxies bidding up guns on their auction? (I know, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!)

Seems every time I ask a seller a question and evidence interest in a gun, I get outbid almost immediately after I get an answer.

Now I hardly ever wear my tin-foil hat in the winter (wool is warmer); and the drugs keep my paranoia in check; and my fillings no longer receive radio messages from the CIA, butttt.......

Sure, I know it happens, but lately it seems to be happening a lot more...or maybe I'm just asking more questions about popular guns. (But how popular is a FN 1922 7.65?)

Oh well, maybe this is just a rant, but I thought I'd ask.
 
It is certainly against the rules in some gun auction sites. If you feel that it is happening, write an e-mail to the website customer support.
 
Sure, it happens.

Keep in mind though that if your question is posted on the auction - it might be the very question someone else wants to know but didn't want to ask for fear of a "serious" bidder being shown.

What I watch for is relistings after an item has been "sold".
Todd.
 
Maybe you should ask the question BEFORE you bid.

I have no doubt proxy bidders happen. I'm rather ignorant on technology, but I would guess it's rather hard to prove a proxy bidder if it's done smartly.
 
I bid the most I am willing to pay and don't worry about shill bids.

No matter what the rules say, I doubt if only auction sites really care if someone drives the bid up.
 
Well, actually I usually do ask before I bid. This last time I asked, told the seller I was interested, got a positive (and private) answer, bid, and got outbid about two nanoseconds later. Okay, maybe it was an hour.

It's just that it was the third gun in a row, that set me off. Now I just gotta decide how much I want the gun.
 
A lot of people are using 'bid-bot' software to keep on top of items they are bidding on.

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Archiv...ots-How-to-stop-get-around-them/qaq-p/8070633

They Will outbid you with a half second left at auction end if the bidder who set it has a higher limit then you.
And there is nothing you can do about it except hope their power goes off for the duration of the auction the last day.

rc
 
I don’t if you’re talking about proxy bidders as individuals or not. I know I get disgusted with the preprogramed auto bids on gunbroker. It seems that every time I bid on something, I immediately get an email that I’ve been out bid. Probably not the best approach, but since I don’t know how high it will go so I just walk away. The same goes for the undisclosed “Reserve” amounts; won’t even look at them.
 
Not trying to be a grammar nazi, but I think the term should be "shill" bidder.
A proxy bidder is a person or piece of software that bids for the buyer.
A shill bidder is a person or software that bids for the seller in order to push the price up.
 
Twik,
the "autobidder" isn't going to outbid you, unless the present high bidder put in a higher bid than your present one to begin with.
Put in your "best bid" from the start. If you get outbid ... then somebody else wanted it more than you .., nothing "sinister" about that.
 
Dunno about gun sites, but I know that Ebay has auto bids. As noted, I've had bids immediately bested. I have a friend that has one of the automatic things that bids a few seconds before the auction ends, up to a predetermined amount.
 
its always going to happen. far to many people simply want to jack the price up artificially or not sell it.

Its more fun to make a note of how many auctions are screwy. Nothing more fun to see then an auction where the reserve price is HIGHER then there "buy it now price'. Seriously, ive seen a rather nice used model 10 that had a 700 dollar reserve price but had a 600 dollar buy it now.
 
Sure it happens, would be naive to think it doesn't. Sometimes you get a great deal, sometimes not so great. I just know what I am willing to pay for an item and won't go over that.

The 15 minute rule on Gun Broker pretty much does away with the "snipe" bidding you see on Ebay. It extends the bidding 15 minutes every time a bid comes in the last 15 minutes of an auction. I recently bid on a muzzle loader that had no other bids on it until the last 12 minutes. Then I started getting bids against me until it was within 30 dollars of normal retail. I wanted the gun - so no big issue. I would have paid what I bought it for anyway. Do I suspect it was connected to the seller... I will never really know.
 
First, I won't ever "bid" on a firearm. All these auctions have done is push prices for firearms well beyond a realistic price range.

And do any sellers have shills. Now that's a dumb question. Anyone can sell at an auction site, and not all folks are reputable. So gee, I guess so.:neener:
 
I know I have bid on some items to roughly market value. Those items all of a sudden go above that price. Then about a week later item is back on the site with a story about a non paying bidder. Once or twice I would believe it. 5 or six times with same seller. I call bs. Short answer yes I believe a lot of sellers have shill bidders.
 
jeepnik said:
First, I won't ever "bid" on a firearm. All these auctions have done is push prices for firearms well beyond a realistic price range.

And do any sellers have shills. Now that's a dumb question. Anyone can sell at an auction site, and not all folks are reputable. So gee, I guess so.:neener:
Click to expand...
How do you figure the auction sites have driven prices up? In early July of last year I successfully bought a Benelli M2 (brand new in box) from a seller on Gunbroker for $930 after shipping. I was also the only bidder. Good luck finding that price anywhere else unless you happen to be employed by Benelli.

In fact, I've made several excellent price purchases on Gunbroker in the past. You've got to look, be patient and know what you want/what you're bidding on. Then set your spending limit and hope the seller doesn't have a shill bidder employed or that someone is willing to pay more than you. It's not rocket surgery.
 
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The market is the market. "Value" has a definition; it is the intersection of the amount a seller is willing to take and a buyer is willing to pay. The seller cannot control what you are willing to bid, so this is a clean process with regard to stablishing value.

I sold a Winchester 94 at a gunshow last month, and the dealer/buyer actually checked GB on his I-pad before agreeing to my price. Guess where I came up with that price?

I have purchased many items on GB, all of them very difficult to find items. On most of them, my first bid was my max bid. Occasionally I got the nod for quite a bit shy of my max, sometimes I didnt.

Is the seller driving up the bid? I don't know, don't really care. I only know what I'm willing to pay. If I get it for that, I'm happy.
 
Also you have people who are overwhelmed by the auction sites. They do not undesrstand why the auction service wants to hold their money. They do not know how to set up the buy it now feature. I have at least 3 or 4 people a year who want to sell their guns online but they are scared of the services. They come here and I walk them through setting up the account. Some of them are so intimidated I just tell them to go the gun shop to have the gun shop sell the gun on consignment. They don't think the buyer should have the right of refusal. I am like list your item honestly and it is doubtful you will have a refusal.

Take off the tinfoil hat. Virtually everyone who bids on something enters the max they will pay for that item. The auction software ups the bid for them. Enter what you would like to pay for the item. If you get outbid you can consider making a hirer bid. If that was the max you were willing to pay move on with your life. If they had a shill bidding on the item they just bought their own gun. They pay the auction fees and processing fees for using the payment systems.

Lastly protect yourself. Do not deal with people who will only accept a check or money order mailed to their home address or a PO box. If they want to cheat the auction system they will not hesitate to cheat you. On buy it now offers negotiate on credit card fees. Some people will wave the fees. Others may like their gun/ammo more than you do. Let them wait on a buyer that will come to their terms. Some people will come around to your way of thinking. On ammo and items that are not usually returnable, if the boxes are broken or the ammo is old give them a bad review, if they deceived you in anyway. Usually when you give someone a bad review the auction service gets involved.
 
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Do not deal with people who will only accept a check or money order mailed to their home address or a PO box.
Click to expand...

Which auction systems are you referring to? Auction houses like RIA, etc. or auction systems like Gun Broker, etc.?
 
I have had the experience where no one bid on a gun I was mildly interested in, then that auction expired. The gun was relisted at the same price so I bid on it. Within an hour I was outbid so I did wonder if the seller hoped he/she could get me to bid more by having someone else outbid me. I never really gave much thought to that scenario but if other’s do there might be something to it. I realize it’s against the rules but who would know?

I’ve bought some guns off Gunbroker and bid on others without winning. It seems some folks get the “I wants” or they can’t live without the item and drive the price way up. For the seller this is great. But this is how auctions go from my experience. If you want an item and someone else wants it just as bad the only real winner is the seller. In general after visiting Gunbroker and several gun shops I think simply by the volume of guns there your likely to get a great deal off Gunbroker provided you factor in the shipping and FFL fee’s.
 
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