gun club or social club?

[Armored farmer]

Our little trap club decided to sell camping sites around the scenic 5a lake.

The 'campers' have almost taken over the club.
Bad idea.
They don't like it when we shoot on Thursday night and Sunday afternoon.

 

[entropy]

Our club does occasionally close down for private functions that are compensated by an 'honorarium' to the club treasury, but about 2 a year. Last one was the Club President's son's graduation. It sounds like your club does a lot of things that happens in varying degrees in most clubs. It also sounds like a few members there do think it's their private fifedom. Your meetings sound a bit more raucous than normal; Do they not follow Robert's Rules of Order? If not, try to get them to start, attendance will wither from boredom, and you will be able to be heard.
Our club posts a Calendar on the website, clearly showing which ranges (Rifle, Pistol/.22, Acrhery Outdoor, Archery Indoor, or Archery walking trail) are closed and why. I have had experience with this being a 4-H Leader-guys would show up to shoot, and be mad because we were on the range. I'd ask them if they checked the calendar and get a "well, no..."
Ask for a copy of the by-laws, study them, and work within the system for change. If this is not worth it to you, finding another club might be the better option.

 

[entropy]

Our little trap club decided to sell camping sites around the scenic 5a lake.

The 'campers' have almost taken over the club.
Bad idea.
They don't like it when we shoot on Thursday night and Sunday afternoon.

You should have eliminated any avenue of redress in the contract. We lost a local club in town because the farmer who owned the surrounding land sold, and the owners of all the new houses worked together to eliminate the club, even going so far as to ventilate their own house in one case. It was later proven by a forensic investigator that the hole could not have been caused by any round coming from the club, but by then the club was as good as closed.

 

[Axis II]

Our club does occasionally close down for private functions that are compensated by an 'honorarium' to the club treasury, but about 2 a year. Last one was the Club President's son's graduation. It sounds like your club does a lot of things that happens in varying degrees in most clubs. It also sounds like a few members there do think it's their private fifedom. Your meetings sound a bit more raucous than normal; Do they not follow Robert's Rules of Order? If not, try to get them to start, attendance will wither from boredom, and you will be able to be heard.
Our club posts a Calendar on the website, clearly showing which ranges (Rifle, Pistol/.22, Acrhery Outdoor, Archery Indoor, or Archery walking trail) are closed and why. I have had experience with this being a 4-H Leader-guys would show up to shoot, and be mad because we were on the range. I'd ask them if they checked the calendar and get a "well, no..."
Ask for a copy of the by-laws, study them, and work within the system for change. If this is not worth it to you, finding another club might be the better option.

When I arrived last Saturday the clubhouse was full and they said oh just a party which wasn't on the calendar but go ahead and shoot. I pulled in last night and seen the cars and checked the calendar and said only October 15th was a function. we announce when it will be closed via emails and such and Mondays email said it was open. bylaws only say membership has to vote to allow the reservation of the club. ive seen one get shut down because the guy said boy scouts wanted to camp and another troop already resides there and another was the VP reserved it for his kids grad party all facilities closed. during the meeting we must stand up and say I want to reserve it Friday and why and everyone must approve it. we all have codes to the house so I'm wondering if it was just a hey, nothing is scheduled so lets use it.

 

[Sam1911]

While we're only hearing one side of this (yours), it really sounds like this tiny club is not running on any sort of strict adherence to a set of bylaws, or rules of order in its meetings.

That happens. A club can be organized any which way the founders and existing BoD wish to do it, and that may simply be as a little dictatorship, kingdom, or oligarchy. There's nothing exactly WRONG with that, especially in a little group without large areas of competing interest, but if you aren't getting what you paid for then that's not fair.

However, if you aren't in the "in crowd" then you're going to have to be content with accepting whatever you're given as a member. If you can't find a sympathetic ear of someone with the power to change things the way you want, then you don't have a lot of recourse except leaving.



Our club situation is a bit different. We've got nearly 2,000 member families and we've made a conscious decision to run the organization strictly by the By-Laws. We've revised just about every facet of facility use, from membership policies, automating rolls and renewals, electronic access, rules enforcement, range reservation, to match day protocols, to range rules, to hunting procedures, special use issues, etc., attempting to eliminate unfairness or "old boy" ways of doing things. But it took a VERY uncomfortable and long process of standing up to the powers that were (many of whom were personal friends), raising a grass-roots movement capable of voting in a new BoD, and, honestly, a small core group of malcontents (of which I was one) who met a lot on our own time and planned a strategy for bringing that movement to the meetings and toppling the old regime. (And as well, the "bad old Board" had to be ethical enough to eventually, more or less, after they ran out of dirty tricks, accept being voted out and let a turnover of power happen.)

Some very good things, and some friendships, were destroyed in the attempt. Fortunately, now several years later, the club is in a very good place with a strong and ethical way of operating. But it isn't something I'd want to go through again.

I wish you a lot of luck, whatever you do.

 

[buck460XVR]

So many of these small "clubs" are just that, "good ol' boys social clubs". Many have growing pains when they grow and many have to find other ways besides raising dues to support their club. $50-$75 per day is a cheap rental fee for use of an indoor facility. Most small organizations start out with few rules because most folks are all on the same page, with the same idea of how things should be. Thus many rules are unspoken/unwritten. As these organizations grow and new folks come in, their ideas and interpretation of the rules aren't always the same and you end up with the situation you have here.........confusion, disarray and anger.

It comes down to what you want to do. It sounds as if you are an outsider already. Going unprepared and trying to state a complaint at a meeting with folks who already have issue with you is difficult at best. What you need to do, if you want to continue there, is to write a list of your grievances and your suggestions at a solution to those grievances and request they be brought up a a meeting to be discussed. The request needs to be polite and respectful, as does your presentation at the meeting(if it is held). You do not want to disrupt the apple-cart or make huge changes, only to make the rules clear and easy to understand. You should request that all rentals be done early enough so folks have a least a week's time to be informed and that whether shooting is allowed or not is clear. Otherwise anything not posted in advance, while the clubhouse is being used, the range should be open. If you come to the meeting prepared, with intelligent and well thought out questions, and present yourself calmly without loosing your cool, you should at least get answers. You might not like those answers, but at least you will have them.

Again, it seems for some reason you are already on the outside and are on the hit list, so to speak. I would ask why. You do not have to be back-slappin' friends with those folks, if all you want to do is shoot. If you pay your dues and do your work, you have the same rights and privileges as they do and as such, they need to respect that. You seem to be torn between the fact the range is close and decent for what you pay. Sometimes for that, one has to deal with some things(or folks) they don't like or access is not always available when you want it to be. You have to decide whether or not it is worth it and whether or not the issues you have are too great.

 

[1911 guy]

You're ten minutes from a club that you don't get to use regularly and requires work days. How many times could you have made the drive to Coshocton or Grand River? Figure in your wasted preparation and driving time, hours spent working at a property you seldom use, time the aggravation has been eating at you, etc. I'll bet the hours add up. Send me a pm, we'll arrange to meet at G.R. Some time. Five bucks for a day pass, shoot from 9-5.

 

[danez71]

one person was my school teacher years ago and two others are friends. one I got in and the other got me in. I used to show to every monthly meeting, work party, etc to get to know people and show I care but it got old hearing everyone arguing at meetings, having some 80yo man scream and curse about someone leaving a coffee pot on or leaving shell cases. you cant hear half the meeting because committees are in the first 3 rows and everyone else stand in the back and everyone b.s with each other so you cant hear the actual meeting. Work parties consist of your new bust your rear end while we pull up lawn chairs and talk and drink coffee and get work hours. I was working one evening and hear gunshots. I asked why someone was on the range when it was scheduled to close for work and was told its an committee member just find something else to do. There is a very small group of about 10-15 of use out of 150 that actually care and put a lot of hours in. I like the place cause its close, cheapest around, been there for 70+yrs, mostly decent people but its lets make stuff up as we go attitude I hate.

I just don't think its right that they can close down everything for family functions. I showed up one time to shoot and it was a bachelor party there that left a huge mess of brass I ended up picking up. family reunions, etc. its cheaper to rent the club then a hall so I get why people do it but IMO the facilities shouldn't be shut down for personal use. I had my boss go there with me after leaving work and driving 30min home to get his rifle and 30min back to be told there was a rifle match going on cause they couldn't do it sunday the normal day cause of ccw classes. I said well doesn't look like anyone showed up and the committee guy says well lets give it 20 more min or so and see. 2 guys showed up so I said well hes got a rifle ruger 7mm and was told it was military rifles only and my boss being non member had to pay $5 to shoot but needed to go get a military rifle. Again making crap up as they go.

Ive got some thinking to do. I feel like nicely voicing my opinion will get me scorn but its getting to the point where I nicely voice it or I just tell them screw you I'm a member I'm using the place.

When the 'make it up as you go' mentality only benefits a select few, I stead of the majority, I hate that too.

If you think you can get support from the others in your same position and make a beneficial change for the masses... maybe it might be worth it.

Otherwise, I agree with JTs last bottom line question above. And from the sounds of it,,,,, for ME, it doesn't matter if it's 10 minutes away if I still can't use it 90% of the time I need too.

 

[Axis II]

So many of these small "clubs" are just that, "good ol' boys social clubs". Many have growing pains when they grow and many have to find other ways besides raising dues to support their club. $50-$75 per day is a cheap rental fee for use of an indoor facility. Most small organizations start out with few rules because most folks are all on the same page, with the same idea of how things should be. Thus many rules are unspoken/unwritten. As these organizations grow and new folks come in, their ideas and interpretation of the rules aren't always the same and you end up with the situation you have here.........confusion, disarray and anger.

It comes down to what you want to do. It sounds as if you are an outsider already. Going unprepared and trying to state a complaint at a meeting with folks who already have issue with you is difficult at best. What you need to do, if you want to continue there, is to write a list of your grievances and your suggestions at a solution to those grievances and request they be brought up a a meeting to be discussed. The request needs to be polite and respectful, as does your presentation at the meeting(if it is held). You do not want to disrupt the apple-cart or make huge changes, only to make the rules clear and easy to understand. You should request that all rentals be done early enough so folks have a least a week's time to be informed and that whether shooting is allowed or not is clear. Otherwise anything not posted in advance, while the clubhouse is being used, the range should be open. If you come to the meeting prepared, with intelligent and well thought out questions, and present yourself calmly without loosing your cool, you should at least get answers. You might not like those answers, but at least you will have them.

Again, it seems for some reason you are already on the outside and are on the hit list, so to speak. I would ask why. You do not have to be back-slappin' friends with those folks, if all you want to do is shoot. If you pay your dues and do your work, you have the same rights and privileges as they do and as such, they need to respect that. You seem to be torn between the fact the range is close and decent for what you pay. Sometimes for that, one has to deal with some things(or folks) they don't like or access is not always available when you want it to be. You have to decide whether or not it is worth it and whether or not the issues you have are too great.

I only have one issue with the membership guy because I was told 12 openings I'm #3 send everything in so I did and I kept getting pushed higher on the list until I was like 15 and no spots open. I inquired why and was told that's the breaks so knowing the club president through a mutual friend I asked him about it and he said he would ask why I was moved so high. My friend reports 9 out of 12 people or so were signed for by board members. Yeah, it ticked me off but I let it slide until my $100 initiation fee was cashed, overdrew my account, and I was told they weren't refunding it because it was for my background check and stuff and I would get in next month. 3 months went by and nothing so I called and said if I don't have a check by Friday ill be contacting my attorney. The president told me the membership guy was pissed at me and they were afraid he would vote me out but funny thing was they voted me in before all this happened so he didn't have a chance to. He sees me and makes remarks about there's the guy that's gonna sue us, makes cracks about me having a lot of work hours, etc. I enjoy working outside so I help out because the place needs a lot of stuff done because no one wants to help cause its so cheap $200 pays dues and work hours. when I said people yelling and cursing they weren't doing that directly at me it was just at everyone cause someone left a coffee pot on or lights on. I stay away from the groups because that's just the way I am. I would rather work alone on projects. If your the new guy and even a vet of the club and they don't like your idea its chaos. we need a backpack leaf blower to blow the snow so we don't have shovel the gravel and it was shot down. next meeting certain ones throw a fit and now we have a leaf blower to blow snow. certain people get mad and get their way. My riding mower I use to mow had a flat for a month and they wouldn't get a new tire and said use a push mower. I said ha! and weed wacked and went home. A vet complained and new tires. good ole boy crap. I get along with a lot of people just not the member guy.

 

[Apachedriver]

Ohihunter

It appears this club you've joined is a good ol' boy network club and not a business with the interests of it's customers upfront. With that being the case, you really only have three options.

1. Do what it takes to become one of the good ol' boys. Go along to get along.

2. Figuratively speaking, burn the club to the ground. Do what it takes to destroy every semblance of what they have as a club. Afterwards, you'll have the satisfaction that they are now as miserable as they made you feel. But understand, you'll likely be burning yourself down as well. And for what?

3. Thank them for the experience and exposure you've received from them. Then move on down the road using this experience to find a better place with people more like yourself.

Number 1, may work out, or, may leave you feeling "dirty" and unsatisfied. By joining their "good ol' boy club", it infers you want to become one of them. By their rules. Written or not. Fair or not. There aren't any guarantees you'll go up in status ranking but it's certainly possible.
Number 2, very satisfying, initially. But then, where have you left yourself and what have you really gained? How has your situation become better?
Number 3, well, you'll reap the joys of your hobby. Who knows? You may possibly develop some acquaintances along the lines of who you are as a person.

I don't do things for the express purpose of making friends with specific individuals. I try to live a life I enjoy first. My friendships are the result of meeting others who enjoy the same along the way. If we're not compatible, then, we're just not and I keep living satisfied.

Best wishes to you.

 

[bannockburn]

ohihunter2014

Despite the lower cost factor and being close to home, it seems like there's just too much negativity and not enough co-operation going on at this club for you to get a decent return on your dues and work hours. Plus it sounds like you do more work at the club than you get to shoot; which was the primary reason for joining the club in the first place. You might try to turn things around with the a different Board of Directors through working with other members but the whole situation sounds too chaotic and misdirected that I wonder if you would ever see any change to the ways things are done (or not done), there.

Methinks it's time to move on.

 

[boom boom]

Sam1911 has it right.

I have been an officer in several organizations, drafted bylaws and constitution, and served as advisor to others and these problems occur with regularity in any club.

Organizations take time to turn around and some never do. If you really want to continue with this group, then 1) insist on regular procedures at meetings such as Robert's Rule of Orders--if there is no such bylaw, make a motion to do so. As noted above, clubs not following their bylaws can be a legal issue in your state which you will need to research. 2) You will have to develop friendly acquaintances with other members preferably those outside of the power structure who are probably as angry as you are--you cannot do it alone and you need their votes if it comes to a showdown, 3) after gaining numbers, insist on all reservations being recorded and available to all members, 4) and this probably will raise hackles of the powers that be so do this after you have a power base using regular procedures, insist on regular and itemized accounting of all dues, moneys received from reservations, etc. and all expenditures. I suspect that some members might not be paying for the reservations and it could be that some are using the club's money for personal uses. While, states vary on whether organizational bylaws are enforceable, all will insist on proper accounting of funds regardless as it is a personal income matter and a state matter if your club has profit or even non-profit status. An audit of the club's books might be in order.

However, do know that this will make you an irrevocable enemy to those using the club for personal benefit. Leeches come in all forms and don't give up their privileges without a fight.

I would suggest reading Robert Heinlein's Take Back Your Government available on Amazon. He lays out problems with local political clubs and how to fix them. These principles are also applicable to any organization. He pulls no punches and learned from having to fight his own battles in his club.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

It sounds like the OP is disliked in the club and the OP dislikes how the club operates. Time to move on.

 

[Speedo66]

The idea of joining a certain type of club, any club, is for your enjoyment. If you are not enjoying it, chalk it up to experience and move on.

If you are thinking of joining a different club, leave the one you're currently in in good standing and good spirits, otherwise they may contact the other clubs and label you as a troublemaker.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

The best place to find childish behavior is within an organized group of adults.

 

[jeepnik]

I'd find other like minded folks, and next time there was an election of officers I'd work to oust the current folks. You'll likely find quite a few who would like to shoot.

Many moons ago the club I was in (now sadly it's houses) went through an issue with both officers and some folks we had hired to keep things running. Things weren't getting done, some folks had formed cliques and seems to get preferential treatment. Turned out quite a few were disgusted with the situation, and we ousted the board mid term. They went, and when they were unseated most left along with many of their cronies. We replaced the staff with better folks (one of the perks was allowing them to use the club facilities and the ones we got rid of abused it and acted like it was theirs).

Things got a whole lot better until the housing started to move in and the county eventually shut us down. Being first is never an adequate means of securing your rights when new folks represent more money into the government coffers.

 

[Armored farmer]

Our little club that I mentioned earlier in a post had a member who truly worked his @$$ off for the club. He kept the books and ran the cash box purchased and hauled targets and maintenance on the traps
Then he became I'll with a serious illness yet insisted on keeping the books.
It turned out he had been skimming cash for years.
Everyone was dumbfounded.
Ya never know.

 

[entropy]

Our little club that I mentioned earlier in a post had a member who truly worked his @$$ off for the club. He kept the books and ran the cash box purchased and hauled targets and maintenance on the traps
Then he became I'll with a serious illness yet insisted on keeping the books.
It turned out he had been skimming cash for years.
Everyone was dumbfounded.
Ya never know.

Karma in action......

 

[Axis II]

last thought on this guys. I spoke with my best friend who I helped get in there because we tried since we were 18yo to join. He told me what are we going to do? they don't care, its all friends and family and it will start a war. I noticed something this being my second year and talking to mid range members 10yrs and under that one board member was the president and was unseated because he pulled this crap a lot and people got tired of it. He was given another board spot and his wife runs the books. When I asked why no one else runs I'm told no one wants to deal with it cause its such a mess. The last few years the guy who was unseated along with his wife and another family member or friend keep trying to unseat the current president which I think does a good job and seems level headed as he didn't let them lynch me when I broke the unwritten rule for shooting before noon. It was the morning before the meeting and someone called, I explained it wasn't posted, etc and when he realized they were wrong he apologized but other board members, trustees, and members found out and demanded I be named, suspended, brought in front of the board. I just sat in the back and the president said its no ones business he took care of it and the bylaws and such need updated. Well the sign in book showed who I was so a lot of people got all hot so strike one against me. strike two someone decided to point at me during a meeting for a committee spot and I said nope, don't want involved in that. strike 3 was them cashing my check and moving me higher on the list and a few people know I was upset and threatened to contact the attorney. I'm going to finish the year and see who gets elected or removed and go from there based on what my buddy suggested.

I just wanted to get you guys opinion before I jumped ship, voiced my opinion, etc. I respect you guys on here, this is a great site with what seems like a lot of great people so I figured see if there was some sound advice from you and looks like I got it. I double checked the email calendar and website today and not one thing about range closed last night so ill be going to the next meeting and I'm pretty sure the guy who ran me out will bring it up and then I might just hit them with why was it closed? did the club get any money for that? etc. It almost seems like a business to me. all the club shoots, member or not you have to pay to shoot. they say it helps pay for targets but when the treasures report it read its like $150-200 a week and paper doesn't cost that much. gun raffles usually get more than the guns worth, etc.

 

[Sam1911]

Just to point out, there's nothing necessarily wrong with the club taking in money on matches, beyond what is necessary to pay for targets.

Every club I shoot at charges $15 or $20 for matches. Sometimes there's a discount off that price for members, or for workers, but not always. As long as it's up front and disclosed there's no ethical issue.

It's nice to be able to put some money back for buying new equipment, replacing stuff that gets damaged, special events, or just to be ready for contingencies that come along.

 

[Axis II]

Just to point out, there's nothing necessarily wrong with the club taking in money on matches, beyond what is necessary to pay for targets.

Every club I shoot at charges $15 or $20 for matches. Sometimes there's a discount off that price for members, or for workers, but not always. As long as it's up front and disclosed there's no ethical issue.

It's nice to be able to put some money back for buying new equipment, replacing stuff that gets damaged, special events, or just to be ready for contingencies that come along.

I agree with you on that. I don't mind them doing it but some things just sound a little fishy sometimes. Ours is like $5-10 so not too bad. if we make extra money we need to spend it on upgrades not hoard it away. I made the match money comment cause it seems like that's all they care about is getting more $. matches, dinners, unworked work hours $20hr, party rentals, etc. I don't mind the parties and stuff it just seems its all the time and shutting down everything is what burned me. Its like screw the members we are getting $75.

 

[DoubleMag]

...and the name of this mystery club is...

 

[Tirod]

Find another club

You lasted longer than I would have. Secret rules and unannounced closures are above and beyond. It would seem that you are finally getting the memo - they don't want your membership and apparently could care less how they do it. They are quite aware of your position and continue their agenda.

I foresee a housing development in the future. Too bad.

 

[Sav .250]

Looks like you little "trap club" shot itself in the foot by going after the $$$$$.

 

[JR24]

Good Lord I am glad my local club isn't like that. Occasionally they'll hace an unposted event and I'll have to go to a different range (there are 3 in the area) but everyone I've met/worked with has been nice. Much like you, I think, I prefer to do my thing on my own time so I don't get much involved.

I feel for ya, but I think, personally, I would just drive further and go to a reasonable range.

I don't get angry easily or often, but adults playing schoolyard politics is one of my hot buttons, I applaud your patience and persistence.