Gun Control Today

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Post no 19 has it on Isreal. :evil: The ban is only on the palestinians-who if they had one might use it when the Isrealie government decided to come out during the night and bulldoze their house down, with him and his family in it, to make room for another Russian jew.:eek:

And for you "GWB regardless radical republicans" when the demosocialist take over in washington you can think this adminstration for it.:banghead:
 
This is a prediction I will stand by for the long term.

The day we get a Democrat majority in the House, Senate, or both, is the day forces will be put into action to bring back the "assault weapons" ban in an even more expanded, evil form.

Never ever forget the spectacle of Ted Kennedy raving on the floor of the US Senate about "armor piercing" ammunition, and using as his example the venerable 30-30 cartridge. And that was just last year.

Gun Control will be back with a vengeance the day the Dems get back power.

The Dems need to be out of power long enough for Ted Kennedy, Chuck Schumer, Pelosi, Boxer, Reid, et al to either get old and die, or to retire from politics.

Until that day comes, I'm not voting for any Dem under any circumstances for any office.

And I'm an English instructor at a college. I grew up in yellow-dog-Democrat Arkansas. I'll admit to having voted for Slick Willy in 1992.

I should be the friggin' base of the Democrat Party.

But right now, I wouldn't cross the street to pour stale piss out of a boot onto any nationally-known Democrat who was also on fire and screaming for help.

hillbilly
 
We are in a better position in regards to gun control than we have been in many many years.

The Democrats and Libertarians have absolutely nothing to do with the favorable circumstances. It is ALL the Republicans.

Plenty of room for improvement.

Of course the Dems will be back in power soon due to the shortsightedness of most Americans.

Then we can all come here and bitch about the new gun control proposals.
 
Let me be one of the few to go against the grain.

We are worse off now because it is being left up to the states.
The 2nd Amendment needs to be incorporated like the 1, 3, 4, 5
and so on. Yeah, I wish we did not need to concept of
"incorporation" but that is where we are in this battle.

Some "key" states are gonna run right over the 2nd and other
states will follow.
 
Sterling180: I didn't reference Britain bc of the reason you gave, there is no gun culture. In fact, Britain produces people openly hostile to the 2A, and wanting to do damage to rkba worldwide. To them, there is no difference between a Hutu w/ an AK killing a Tutsi, and a Southern Sudanese Christian so armed against the racist Muslim attackers of the North. They worship democracy without respecting property rights, and that is why laws in Britain generally are back-asswards.

As for domestically, I would say we have our work cut out for us, we have to stop the expansion of anti-rkba legislation in Washington, Oregon, and New England states. But, I have faith it can be done.
 
A page extracted from the UK Gun Control Network on Pump/semi shotguns

Submission to the Home Affairs Committee, November 1999

The Gun Control Network (GCN) proposals outlined in this document are predicated on the belief that the interests of public safety demand a reduction in the availability and attractiveness of firearms of all kinds. There is no doubt that gun violence is directly related to the number of weapons in a society, both legal and illegal. The distinction between legal and illegal weapons is not clear cut. It should not be forgotten that virtually all guns start out as legal weapons, and that victims are unable to discriminate between a bullet fired from a legal or an illegal gun. Policy must be based on the strict control of availability of all weapons. What is needed is legislation and law enforcement.

GCN recognises the existence of a significant, though minority, interest in shooting for sport, and our proposals are aimed at striking an appropriate balance between the sport-shooting interest and the overriding interest in public safety. The social and economic consequences of gun violence in any society are hard to estimate in full, but they are real costs.

1. Minimum age limits
GCN proposes a minimum age limit of 18 for ownership, possession and use of guns of all kinds
Children who are introduced to firearms at an early age are more likely than others to become committed firearms owners and users in later life. From a public safety perspective, however, it is clearly desirable to reduce the overall numbers of firearms owners and the number of firearms in private hands. This objective in itself argues for the use of an age limit, limiting firearms ownership by under 18 year olds. The argument that introducing children to the use of firearms is a contribution to public safety – either on grounds of self-defence or on grounds of training children in the responsible use of firearms – is specious, articulated only in the interests of legitimising the spread of firearms ownership in civil society. All the evidence suggests that the increased prevalence of firearms in private hands is in itself the most important factor in their increased use in violent criminal incidents, in suicides or in other human tragedies.

As an organised society, we remain committed to the age of 18 as the age of majority, determining whether people can lawfully buy alcohol, vote or enter into a mortgage. It seems only consistent that a similar restriction should be applied to the purchase and use of highly dangerous weapons.

2. Shotguns
GCN proposes that there should be a ban on pump action shotguns, that all other shotguns should be brought into the Section 1 licensing system and that more stringent storage requirements should be applied

Pump action shotguns are extensively used in Combat Shooting (otherwise known as Practical Shooting). These weapons are unacceptably dangerous, and these weapons and this activity should both be prohibited (see Appendix I).

Recent Home Office reports suggest, in the aftermath of the recent Firearms Amendment Act, a nationwide increase in the numbers of shotguns in private ownership. The existing legislation in Britain allows citizens (including children) to use shotguns in clubs or on private property, without any requirement of licensing. Currently, shotguns are subject to a less rigorous system of control than rifles, even though, on some evidence, they are more frequently used in crime.

Our argument is that shotguns in use for sporting or vocational purposes (for example, in clay pigeon shooting, the shooting of game or the control of vermin) should be securely stored close to the location of use, and that the Section 1 licensing system should be extended to cover their use, purchase and ownership. GCN would also argue that the extension of the licensing system should be underwritten by a prejudice against the licensing of ownership of shotguns outside of recognised rural locations. GCN does not consider it acceptable that any number of shotguns can be held on a single licence, and we would argue for the separate registration of every individual shotgun purchased for sporting and vocational purposes.

3. Other firearms

In the months since the passage of the 1997 Firearms (Amendment) Acts, there have been repeated reports in the national and local press suggesting that gun enthusiasts have been responding to that legislation through the purchase of alternative weaponry that is every bit as lethal as the handguns they used to possess. Two of the critical examples are:

(a) Muzzle-loading weapons

GCN urges the retrospective prohibition of muzzle-loaders within the provisions of UK firearms legislation

Muzzle-loading pistols were not included in the 1997 legislation, on the specific grounds that they require the individual loading of bullets. Subsequent reportage [1] has made clear that many varieties of muzzle-loader can be loaded with great speed, and also that they are capable of firing many shots in rapid succession. Muzzle-loading pistols produced in the United States are now being openly marketed in the United Kingdom, notably in the pages of the firearms magazines and gun shops. It is not at all clear that legislators in 1997 understood that the muzzle-loader pistol has this capacity or that, if they had known this, they would not have classified the muzzle-loader, for all practical and public safety purposes, as a handgun, and thereby subject to the nationwide ban.

(b) Short-barrelled rifles

GCN urges (a) systematic research into the provenance of carbine use in criminal and other incidents in this country and (b) retrospective inclusion of short-barrelled rifles within the provision of UK firearms legislation

Press reports throughout the country have also suggested the increased use by gun enthusiasts, in the aftermath of their surrender of handguns, of short-barrelled rifles such as carbines. Carbines are lever-action weapons which can fire bullets of identical power to handguns and can do so in rapid succession. In many cases, they are only marginally longer than the handguns which have been prohibited (16 inches as opposed to 12 inches), and they are therefore almost as easily concealed as handguns themselves. GCN is not aware of any vocational use for such weapons, but like pump-action shotguns they are extensively used in Combat Shooting. Carbines were excluded from the recent handguns ban on the grounds of being categorised as rifles.

4. Airguns

GCN would support (a) research into the actual prevalence of airgun incidents and (b) an extension of the existing licensing system to air weapons and a minimum age limit of 18 being placed on their use

As reported in Appendix II there is significant public concern over the injuries caused to people who have been targeted by young people using air weapons. Air weapons are frequently targeted against animals and cause significant damage to property. It is unclear whether the reportage of these incidents is a result of any real increase in such incidents or whether it is a function of increased public sensitivity. What is clear, however, is that some of the injuries that have been caused in recent months have been serious (and have resulted in fatalities).

The proliferation and use of these weapons is largely unchecked because no firearms certificate is required for the majority of airguns. GCN notes that a firearms certificate is required for airguns of any power in Northern Ireland and that even in the Isle of Man, where the firearms laws are generally less stringent than those of Britain, a Regulated Weapon Certificate is required for low energy air pistols and air rifles. The Republic of Ireland also requires a firearms certificate for all airguns.

5. Replica Weapons

GCN proposes that replica and imitation weapons which have no legitimate social purpose are prohibited as they are in the Netherlands

Firearms are used not only to injure and kill, but on occasion also simply to intimidate and scare. For this purpose, of course, a replica or ‘look alike’ weapon is often as effective as an original. Scrutiny of the advertisements in firearms magazine press suggests that there is a significant market in the purchase of ‘look-alike weapons’, especially those of more intimidating and powerful appearance.

In the Netherlands weapons such as these which have no legitimate social purpose are banned, and GCN would argue for similar legislation in the UK. We understand that under the provision in the 1982 Act a certificate is needed for an imitation firearm where the article has the appearance of a firearm that requires a certificate. This provision is clearly not being applied and we urge the committee to investigate this further.

We are pleased that the last Government saw fit, in September 1994, to legislate for the creation of a new offence (‘carrying an imitation weapon with intent to cause fear’) carrying a sentence of up to ten years, but in our view this does not adequately address the problem.

6. De-activated and re-activated weapons

GCN proposes that de-activated weapons should be brought within the licensing system

It is currently perfectly legal for private citizens to have ownership of powerful weapons which have ostensibly been ‘de-activated’ before being sold into private collections (for example, of military enthusiasts). But different police forces in England and Wales have encountered a number of cases in the 1990s in which previously de-activated weapons – including Uzi machine guns – have been re-activated for use.[2] The Report of the Metropolitan Commissioner of Police for 1994 pointed to the significant increase in previously de-activated weapons being found in Britain, many of which appeared to emanate from Eastern Europe, but with re-activation occurring in Britain itself. In the same year, investigators working for the local press in Manchester found that they were able to purchase ostensibly de-activated (but actually fully-functional) Danish army machine guns in licensed gun shops in East Manchester for £60, and ascertained that similar weapons were available for a similar price in city centre stores.[3] Other reports suggest that there is a significant underground market nationally in re-activated weapons, particularly linked with fairs at which military regalia are offered for sale to enthusiasts.

We are aware that the Home Office issued a set of guidelines with respect to effective de-activation of weapons, and then tightened these guidelines in 1995 (especially with respect to the technical question of what parts of a firearm must be removed or welded to ensure a final de-activation). It is not clear, however, that police licensing officers throughout the country have developed any strategy for policing the market in de-activated/re-activated weapons (for example, through surveillance of military fairs). Current information made available to GCN suggests that police practice is this area is essentially re-active, responding to cases only as they emerge.

7. Other Issues of Community and Personal Safety

(a) Safety Audits and Police Inspection
GCN calls for the public release of all existing Health and Safety Executive audits of safety in UK gun clubs and of relevant police inspection reports
In the aftermath of the Firearms Amendment Act of 1997, there has been a reduction in the number of firearms clubs (and, indeed, of registered firearms owners). But there are still more than 2,000 such clubs in the country and a range of dangers and risks, in respect of safety of the club members themselves and of local communities, associated with their use. Many clubs (like army ranges) are located on land that may regularly be used by other sections of the public for other purposes (for example, for hiking, camping, mountaineering). Gun clubs are required under existing legislation to ensure that shooting takes place only at specified distances from the boundaries of their property and at specified distances from any public right of way. The practices of gun clubs are theoretically under the supervision of the Health and Safety Executive, but reports suggest that the capacity of the HSE to intervene in practices of the gun clubs is quite severely limited under current legislation. Police licensing officers were given the power, in the 1997 legislation, to inspect the premises of gun clubs to ensure that the firearms and ammunition stored in such clubs were retained ‘in secure conditions’. To our knowledge, there has been no public report of the inspections that were conducted during 1997-8.

(b) Risk assessment in gun clubs

GCN would argue that the examination of a sample of firearms-clubs in the United Kingdom by qualified risk-assessment experts, in collaboration with the Health and Safety Executive, is an urgent challenge in respect of personal and community safety in the vicinity of firearms-clubs, and would urge consideration of a national risk-assessment programme at the earliest opportunity

The identification and management of risk is one of the greatest challenges facing managers of public and private sector authorities of all kinds at the end of the twentieth century. There are quite obviously a range of risks associated with the continued presence of 2,000 gun clubs in urban and rural locations throughout Britain, but we are not aware of any systematic national analysis of these risks, or of any one set of guidelines for ‘best practice’ minimisation of such risks.

(c) Risk assessment in the home

· GCN proposes that there should be an exploratory study conducted by the Health and Safety Executive of the risks associated with the storage of shotguns and other legal weapons in private homes, resulting in a report released for public consumption.

Even more difficult a challenge for Health and Safety regulators and for police licensing officers is the supervision of the means used for storage of shotguns or other legally-owned weaponry in private homes. We are aware of the difficult issues involved here, notably in terms of the legal definition of ‘private space’ in the domestic home, but at the same time there can be no doubting the relevance of this issue in terms of the protection of families and kin of firearms-owners.

8. Firearms Consultative Committee

GCN proposes the abolition or radical reconstitution of the Firearms Consultative Committee

The membership of the Firearms Consultative Committee does not adequately reflect the proper balance between the minority interests of the shooting fraternity and the majority interests in public safety. If such a body is to continue, its composition must be radically altered so as to include input from public health and medical experts, victims groups, local community leaders and other interested parties.

9. International Perspective

GCN proposes the setting up of an inter-departmental Firearms Task Force to ensure that the UK’s commitment to non-proliferation of guns at home is reflected in its actions and policies abroad

There are currently a number of international efforts to restrict the proliferation of guns throughout the world (see Appendix III). The UK’s domestic gun laws are regarded in most countries as “the gold standard”. However, we remain one of the main suppliers of weapons to other countries, particularly in the developing world.

Since gun control cannot be regarded as a purely domestic issue it is vital to have an inter-departmental group to pursue all related aspects e.g. international co-operation on illegal trafficking, pursuance of international regulation, instruments and treaties, the use of development aid to remove weapons from post conflict situations and the establishment of clear restrictions on guns for export. Such matters suggest the involvement of the Home Office, Foreign Office, Ministry for International Development and the Department of Trade and Industry.


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APPENDIX I
COMBAT OR PRACTICAL SHOOTING WITH PUMP- ACTION SHOTGUNS

Background
The history of this ‘sport’ appears to begin in the 1930s with the advent of combat pistol courses for the FBI. These courses departed from conventional bull's-eye shooting and sought to impart tactical skills and the realistic use of the handgun. They were intended to improve the combat capability of the military and security services and it was only in the 1950s that groups like the Bear Valley Gunslingers of California were established with the avowed purpose of introducing realism and variety into sporting pistol shooting.

The International Practical Shooting Confederation (IPSC) was founded at the International Combat Pistol Conference held in Columbia in May 1976. The word ‘Combat’ was dropped in recognition of the fact that even in the USA it was seen as politically incorrect and offensive. However, nothing else changed and the IPSC is today arguably the world’s most popular method of training military, paramilitary, police and civilians to shoot fellow human beings in close quarters combat. It is working hard to attain Olympic recognition and is the fastest growing of all the shooting disciplines. The more respectable it is, the more difficult it becomes to ban the weapons involved. In the USA it is seen as one of the strongest bulwarks against the banning of semi-automatic firearms and in the UK it offers the main legitimate opportunity to use pump action shotguns.

On the sensitive question of targets, the IPSC is moving away from the traditional humanoid target towards a new ‘Classic’ target. In response to criticisms from devotees of the old system, Nick Alexakos, President of the IPSC recently wrote

“ A common misconception is that the proposed target is ‘ headless’. Not so. The Classic has all the same features as the current target. It can ‘peek’ over or around walls. It can be used in exactly the same manner as the current target ……”

The case for a ban on combat or practical shooting

There is understandable public revulsion to an activity which so clearly encourages participants to develop their killing skills in realistic situations and which may feed the fantasies of socially inadequate or unstable people. Courses of fire or stages are designed to resemble the fantasy of the day such as ‘ Save the Bank’ , ‘the Bodyguard’, House Clearance’, ‘Carjacked by Gang Members’ , 'Cartel House Raid’.

As a weapon, the pump action shotgun is unacceptably dangerous. It is associated in the public mind with violent crime and gang warfare. It serves no legitimate purpose in civil society.

The fact that ‘practical’ shooting is the fastest growing shooting ‘sport’ internationally is in itself a cause for concern. In post- conflict areas of the world where extensive proliferation of combat weapons threatens the stability of civil society, the presence of a regional branch of the IPSC can serve only to fuel violence and lawlessness. Other countries now look to the UK as a source of inspiration for its tight gun controls and we have a responsibility to lead the way by banning this sort of shooting. In addition, we should do all we can to ensure that it never becomes an Olympic sport as it clearly contravenes the sporting ideals associated with the Olympic movement.

Despite their claims it is used for sporting-clays as well-LEGALLY AND SENSIBLY-and this proves what sort of ,total and utter crap we have to tolerate, in the UK-BECAUSE OF THESE MORONS.
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In addition, we should do all we can to ensure that it never becomes an Olympic sport as it clearly contravenes the sporting ideals associated with the Olympic movement.

Oh, right.

As if javelins, discus and hammer aren't weapons.

As if biathlon wasn't about alpine troops.

As if pole vault wasn't about moats.

Bah.

Bunch of nitwits.
 
What is posted on gcn, they basically admit they want to stop people from being gun owners by weapon limitation.

Whats more, they wish to whitewash pretty mush any Western Martial Heritage. Jackasses!
 
Well look at who is involved in combat shooting in the UK

Welcome to Police Sport UK.

The Police Sport UK comprises the affiliated Sports Clubs of all United Kingdom Police Forces. Its purpose is to promote inter-Force championship events in which members of all Force Sports Associations have opportunities to compete. Competitors also have opportunities for international selection and the Police Sport UK has membership of the Union Sportive des Polices d'Europe whose task is to provide international competition between European member countries.
The organisation is governed by the Police Sport UK Council comprising representatives of all Police regions. All sporting disciplines are controlled by separate National Committees whose members represent the Forces of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.


The Annual Police SPORT UK Short Range Championships

The Annual Police SPORT UK Long Range Championships (Bisley)

Small Bore - Triangular Match Police SPORT UK -v- England

Small Bore - Police SPORT UK -v- Scottish SBR Association

Small Bore - Police SPORT UK -v- ARA (Inter Services)

Small Bore - Police SPORT UK -v- Wales

Full Bore - Police SPORT UK -v- LMRA

Full Bore - Inter Services (Surrey)

Air Pistol - Police SPORT UK -v- The Army

Air Pistol - Police SPORT UK -v- The Royal Air Force

Air Pistol - Police SPORT UK -v- The Civil Service

Air Pistol - Police SPORT UK -v- Regional Teams

Alternative Unofficial fixture - Police SPORT UK -v- Holland

Union Sportive des Police d’Europe Championships in every Fourth Year LAST EVENT SEPTEMBER 2003.

I think that the GCN should go and do some more research on the concept of shooting-sports,considering the fact that the London Metropolitan Poilice department is one the cheif-organizers of Practical shotgun and rifle disciplines in the UK-especially at the Bisley shooting-centre,which is headed by the wonderful Mr Andrew Duffy-who shoots PSG events and full-bore/small-bore rifle events as well.Plus Practical pistol shooting was encouraged by them and by the Civil service as well-prior to 1997-when standard-handguns were legal.
 
+1 for all of Manedwolf's posts.

and a big "NO" to continue to push for National Reciprocity of CCW permits validly issued by any state. Just more Federal control over states.
This is just one example of how GOP'ers think their version of big Govt is......good. No wonder the Neocons are running the party.
 
This is the GCN'S Objectives on the private ownership of guns

All our objectives are predicated on the belief that the interests of public safety demand a reduction in the availability and attractiveness of guns of all kinds.


Minimum age of 18 for the ownership, use and possession of all guns.


Ban on the sale, manufacture and import of imitation guns and their possession in a public place.


Certification of all deactivated weapons.


Inclusion of airguns in certification system.


One certification system for all legal weapons i.e. rifles, shotguns, airguns.


Multi-shot rifles and shotguns to be banned

Practical or Combat shooting or any other shooting practice which involves the simulation of real life situations and/or the use of human shaped targets to be banned.


Abolition or radical reconstitution of the Firearms Consultative Committee.


We recognise the existence of a significant minority interest in shooting for sport, and our proposals are aimed at striking an appropriate balance between the sport-shooting interest and the overriding interest in public safety.


.Sterling180 writing:Note that their proposals would affect farmers,pest-controllers,wild-fowlers,park-rangers;vets,etc,who at present use those types of: multishot,rifles,pistols and shotguns-in order to carry out their respected occupations-both effectively;efficiently and legally.

This is another example of what ignorance and stupidety,those people display to private-firearms ownership and usage and to the very people involved in shooting-sports.It would mean that park-rangers and vets won't be allowed to have repeating-rifles and pistols to shoot wounded-animals-that are beyond medical-aid and would offer park-rangers minimal and insufficient protection against African Safari animals and other dangerous land-animals,(In large numbers.)whilst carrying out their jobs properly.

They also believe that single-shot only and double-barrelled rifles/combination guns are sufficiently adequate for both target-shooting and hunting requirements and will fulfil both roles effectively and efficiently.

Note that they haven't made any exeption for professional users for multishot rifles and pistols-who actually need them-especially for pistols in close-quarters,where a longarm is inappropriate to use.

However those proposals
 
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The various types of members of the GCN

The Gun Control Network was established in the wake of the horrific murders in Dunblane. It was set up by a group that included academics, lawyers and the parents of victims killed in Hungerford and Dunblane.

Supporters

There is widespread support for GCN’s objectives. This Website will enable more people who have concerns about public safety and the gun culture to contact us.

Lobbying

Our objective is to ensure that MPs, Lords and parliamentary candidates from all parties are in no doubt that gun control will win votes. In the run-up to the general election we will continue to promote gun control as an election issue and urge the government to include specific measures in its manifesto.

International Links

We are liaising with other gun control organisations around the world and will monitor legislative developments on a global basis.

Partnership

GCN calls on all local councils in Britain to endorse the objectives of the Network and to work closely with local police in updating information on the activities of gun clubs and firearms dealers in their local authority areas (see sample resolution).

GCN is already working closely with many police forces and individual police officers throughout the country. We will be encouraging the creation of a network of local gun control groups across the country.

Research

There is a deplorable lack of coherent research data about guns in the UK. This has allowed the selective use of statistics by gun lobbyists to go unchallenged. We will promote a national programme of systematic and broad based research that covers the availability, use, storage, registration, and trade of firearms, and their relationship to crime and public health.

Fair Representation

The GCN calls for the routine representation of the victims of firearms crime and of gun control organisations on any government and quasi-government body, always in equal numbers with any representatives of the firearms industry or shooting associations. In particular we wish to see the Firearms Consultative Committee disbanded or at least completely reconstituted so that it does not give undue weight to the narrow sectional interests of the shooting fraternity, as is the case at present.

Sterling180 writing: All of those types of members that were listed in the above paragraphs are ignorant and stupid-as we all know-because they no nothing about anything to do with firearms and they seem to compare their justification for bans,with: misuse to massacres committed by psychos and by watching violence potrayed in ultra-violent Hollywood feature films .They tend to blame the weapon,instead of the mental-stability of the operator-firing it.
 
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Well here is the explaination

K-Romulus:

In Northumberland,Shropshire,Wiltshire;Scotland,etc,Deer stalkers,game-wardens and Park rangers are allowed to carry: .357,.38,.22LR, in the following formats:Either as a standard pistol/revolver, Derringer pistol (rimfire and .410 shellsfor vermin control) and maybe a 9mm pistol,to despatch wounded animals with.Park-rangers/game keepers are employees who work on country estates,where the manage the wildlife,as you well know.Some work for the state and the others work on private reserves.I saw examples of such persons in gun magazines and couldn't get over at how lucky they were and how unlucky the target-shooter was.

Now I know pistols are used by such persons,to dispatch deer and other animals with,if they are beyond medical help or,to protect the keeper/ranger from getting attacked by stags or by dangerous animals on Safari game reserves,like in Windsor Safari park.Now I am not totally sure about the rangers in Windsor Safari Park,but Im sure they have an arsenal of both tranquiliser and live-firing guns,that is kept locked-up.I heard from someone that the rangers there,were allowed pistols for the reasons that I had given before.

Now some folks in my country may or may not believe me,but I am posting what I percieve to be the truth,regarding official-use of pistols,outside of the,Police and armed-forces.
 
This you have to laugh at completely

GCN calls on all local councils in Britain to endorse the objectives of the Network and to work closely with local police in updating information on the activities of gun clubs and firearms dealers in their local authority areas (see sample resolution).

What have legitamate shooters got to hide? Nothing,nothing at all,but apparently we are a bunch of psychos who may or may not go-banded together as one-and shoot the town out and after that,killing our pathetic selves,with our guns. If the police,Army,Navy,Airforce,Merchant Navy and Fire Brigades, can all compete in shooting-sports,without being heavily scrutinized under a microscope,then so should we.

The Police have always checked gun-clubs,despite these claims,because alot of cops and service personnel use these clubs for recreational-shooting.So if they use them,then there is no trouble at all,because if there was any trouble,the culprits would find themselves busted and in custody.

That Scottish Police force that allowed Thomas Hamilton to have pistols on a Section 1 firearm license,didn't do their job properly and look what happend,16 kids and their teacher were shot dead by him,before he killed himself.
 
Wouldn't these bans have exemptions for government officials?

No, it includes everbody including members of the Royal family and those government ministers,journalists,etc, who hold current firearm licenses,that displayed types of weapons, that are listed on the GCNs proposed banned-weapons list.This is what could happen if the government gives in to them.

The following is my interpretation of the GCNs proposals on firearms.

The exeptions of their list are,as follows:One gunlaw for all those who seek to hold privately-held firearms (including those in the above.)-single and double-barrelled weapons are only available for private use and multishot weapons are only to be held by Police and members of the armed-forces,for official use only.

The section 2 licensing system is to be abolished permenantely-as it is to soft on gun-owners.
 
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Yes I have and this looks very interesting indeed

The first copies were bought by senior-members of the shooting community, that were personally signed by Sandra Uttley herself.I bet that this book would undermine half of the crap on the GCN website and shed some light,as to how long Hamilton was really allowed to get away with his activities,for so long.

As far as I am concerned the top-brass of the Central Scottish Police force are a bunch of scumbags for not naming those guilty of permitting Hamilton to own his pistols.
They and those responsible 10 years ago,should serve life sentences and have their pension-plans destroyed,as a punishment for negligence.
 
Gun control legislation will be back with a vengeance when the Dems take control of Congress after the 2006 elections. George won't veto any of it, either. Why screw up a perfect "no vetos" record?
It won't do any good to stock up on EBRs and high cap magazines as they will all be banned without the benefit of grandfather clauses for current owners as soon as the new AWB is passed.
I suppose you could bury them out back.
I wonder what I'm going to do with my Garand and M1 carbine when the time comes?
 
Gun control legislation will be back with a vengeance when the Dems take control of Congress after the 2006 elections. George won't veto any of it, either. Why screw up a perfect "no vetos" record?

The reason our President hasn't vetoed any bills is because they came from the Republican controlled House and Senate. If the Republicans lose the House and a bill he doesn't like hits his desk I believe the veto pen will make a comeback.

It won't matter that it made it through the Republican Senate because even the President knows the Senate Republicans are mostly a bunch of wankers.
 
Okay,this is a a link that will take you to the,"Controls on Firearms" documents,that were produced in the actual firearm consultation meeting in September 2004.Much of what is said, undermines the material and views that are stated on the GCNs website.

I am still annoyed that pistols arn't being considered,to become Section 1 firearms again,though.

Some sections suprised and angered me at the same time,

There is about 171 pages,so if you decide to read that many pages, you will be reading for some time.

http://www.bssc.org.uk/dox/Sep%2004%20-%20BSSC%20Submission%20re%20Home%20Office%20Review%20of%20firearms.pdf
 
Things are not good; things are quiet. Inject a Democrat into the WH or put a Democrat majority in either house of congress and you'll see the S&W agreement resurrected from the quietly dead. Thanks to the debate on extending the AWB we now clearly see the next target, centerfire cartridges.

We've lost 6 years in the expansion of gun right because of a president who at a minimum is indifferent to constitutional issues. No roll back has occured. Only the AWB is gone and only because of a provision of the legislation mandated a revote. No other legislation has been rolled back. We indeed have an opinion out of the attorney general's office saying the 2nd amendment constitutes an individual right. I'm aware of no followon judicial decisions citing the AG's opinion. We've had a few thoughts about repealing the DC gun ban but there is no movement. States are implementing legislation prohibiting the confiscating of firearms during time of emergency which is good. By and large federal attempts at gun control are quiet and sleeping nicely.

Put Hillary in the WH and Bill in the UN and watch how fast gun control revives.
 
xd9fan wrote:
and a big "NO" to continue to push for National Reciprocity of CCW permits validly issued by any state. Just more Federal control over states.
This is just one example of how GOP'ers think their version of big Govt is......good. No wonder the Neocons are running the party.

What the heck is wrong with Full Faith and Credit clause of the Constitution?? Why is my license being recognized in another state an example of pushing big government? :scrutiny:

A state issued license should be recognized by ALL STATES. Be it my drivers license or my pistol license. It's basic federalist theory. Each state recognizes basic laws and rules of other states including things like licenses. Otherwise you get a major bloody patchwork mess. :cuss:

Imagine if your driver's license weren't valid in the next state.
 
In countries outside the US, you have to establish that an individual has a right to self defense. IF you cannot establish that under their law, your basic and prime argument for continued firearms ownership is dead.
 
phetro said:
Anything at all to stop you from being able to resist their might. And they will pass any law they can to ban whatever weapon they want once they control Congress again...Are you seriously thinking that Big Media will expose the truth of the whole affair and the larger plan behind it?

ugh...I don't think world domination through disarmerment is item #32 on the DNC's talking points.

There is NO BIG LIBERAL CONSPIRACY. Most likely no one is planning 50 years in the future for the eventual communist takeover

Right now liberals want to take away guns because most believe that guns are a source of violence and reducing the numbers of guns will reduce straw purchases and make it less likely that someone irresponsible or criminally minded will go on another Columbine-type spree.

THAT'S the liberal master plan. Liberals tend not to own guns, so they are afraid of them and people that own them. They think people like you or me do little good owning guns because 1 per 100,000+ of us will go crazy and kill people (a possibility that HAS HAPPENED).

I really dont think Ted Kennedy is beached on his bed in a menage a quatre with Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Barak Obama ruminating, "all is going according to plan. Soon I will be the supreme ruler of all. These mortals shall fear me when I've finally taken their trijicon-scoped semi-auto CETMEs...MUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA"

You can think and say similar conspiratorial arguments all you want. It just serves to turn the political debate into vitriolic ranting rather than intelligent discussion.

Now a more reasonable argument that may land a punch on Democrats is that sometime in the future, someone or a small group will exploit the fact that the populace is disarmed in order to take it over because we gave up our guns for immediate fears and concerns. A decision that was misguided but seemed valid at the time.
 
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