Gun Control Today

[vito]

If you lived in Illinois as I unfortunately do, you would not be so rosy on the status of our gun rights. We are one of only two states (the other is our neighbor, Wisconsin) that has NO provision for any type of personal carry license. Despite the restrictive gun laws here, and the outright ban in the city of Chicago, both the Mayor of Chicago (King Richard Daley) and the inept Governor (Blago the idiot) are continuously pushing for more gun control laws. The only thing saving us from even more onerous gun laws are the downstate Democrats who despite being Democrats seem to support at least some interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. And it is not just the government: I am a senior VP in a large not-for-profit health care corporation. Despite all the positives in what I contribute, I would be instantly terminated if it were discovered that I ever had a firearm with me, or in my car, when I was at any of our facilities. Even when I travel to Indiana, where I can legally carry based upon my non-resident Pennsylvania permit, my company would fire me if I carried a firearm. I don't feel very up on the status of gun rights right now.

 

[sterling180]

Gunman in combat gear kills himself after 14 die in shooting spree

Gareth Parry, Aileen Ballantyne and Dennis Johnson
Thursday August 20, 1987
The Guardian


A berserk gunman who stalked through the quiet town of Hungerford , Berkshire, shooting dead 14 people and wounding another 14 killed himself last night after being besieged by police. A muffled shot was heard just after 7 pm inside the school in the town where he had been surrounded by armed police. It was the end of an horrific episode of inexplicable violence visited on the town by a local man identified by the police as Michael Ryan, aged 27.

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His victims included his own mother and an unarmed traffic policeman, named last night as PC Roger Bereton, aged 41, a married man with two teenage sons.
The youngest casualty was a 14-year-old girl, Lisa Mildenhall, who was shot in both legs. She was in a hospital intensive care unit last night, fighting for her life.

The killer who brought terror to the historic market town wore Rambo-style army combat gear as he strutted through the sunny streets, firing two guns at random, sending children and shoppers running screaming for cover.

The trail of killings began at the Savernake Forest, about 10 miles from Hungerford , where the body of a young woman was discovered. Two small children stood nearby whimpering but unhurt.

Then the gunman made his way to his own home in the town. The house was set ablaze, his mother's body lying inside as the fire spread through the terrace of four homes.

Firing indiscriminately, Ryan then ran amok, leaving bloodshed in his wake. An 84-year-old man was gunned down in his own garden drivers were shot dead in their vehicles cars crashed as they tried desperately to escape the gunfire. Seen people were left lying in one street close to Ryan's home.

The Princess Margaret hospital in Swindon was swiftly turned into an emergency centre as ambulances from Berkshire and Wiltshire brought in the wounded.

Before Ryan shot himself, specialist police siege negotiators and marksmen surrounding the John O'Gaunt secondary school in Hungerford had managed to contact him with the intention of persuading him to surrender.

Ryan was seen at a window of the school, brandishing a hand grenade with the pin removed.

The shooting began shortly after midday when a man driving a silver-coloured vauxhall Astra car fired shots at a cashier at the Golden Arrow service station on the A4 at Croxfield, six miles west of Hungerford and across the county boundary in Wiltshire. She was unhurt.

The car drove off at speed, and Thames Valley police were alerted. A few minutes later, at brigade were called to a blaze in Fairview Road, but were unable to get near to douse the flames. Ryan, brandishing two guns, came out of the house into streets crowded with market-day shoppers, firing indiscriminately. A body was later found in the house.

Unarmed Thames valley police officers, in search of the Astra car, came face to face with the gunman. Eye-witnesses said that Ryan, tall, of medium build, fair and bearded, came out of the house looking as if he was 'just going for a walk. '

Mrs Jennifer Hibberd, of Fairview Road, said: 'He was just strolling around very calmly and shooting. ' She said she had come face to face with Ryan, whom she knows, just as her father arrived home.

She dragged her father inside to join her and her 14-year-old daughter, then telephoned her older daughter and husband at work, warning them not to come home. 'I believe his mother is dead inside the house,' she said.

She said that one of the victims was a woman who was driving her daughter to visit a relative. 'He just emptied the shotgun into the car. The woman had blood on her. Her daughter was leaning over her with her head down. She managed to reverse down the road. Oh God I hope she's all right. '

Mrs Barbara Morley, another witness of the killings - one of the bloodiest massacres in Britain - said: 'He was just strolling along the road, shooting at anything that moved. '

In all, 12 people were killed in Hungerford High Street as Ryan, an antiques dealer and member of a local gun club, fired at random.

One was named as Mr Marcus Barnard, a taxi driver, who died four weeks after celebrating the birth of his first baby. His wife heard the shots ring out outside their home 50 yards away, but she was unaware that her husband had been shot dead through the window of his taxi.

In a house less than 30 yards down the street from the fire in Fairview Road, police comforted a Mrs Carr, aged 81, whose husband, aged 84, lay dead in the garden.

Mrs Carr, in tears, said: 'I heard him go out into the garden and I heard a couple of shots. My husband groaned and started calling out my name. I could see him lying there with wounds on his side, under his arm and in his back.

'All I wanted to do was go outside in the garden and cover him with blankets, but I could not get out because there were shots ringing around. '

Inside the house, police emotions were running high and several officers were close to tears when they heard that an unarmed officer had been shot.

Witnesses said that as Ryan fired he reloaded from a bag of cartridges on the chest of his sleeveless flak jacket.

As officers trained in the use of firearms were called in, many of the wounded were understood to be lying in Hungerford High Street unattended because the gunman shot at anyone who moved.

The town was sealed off. At one time the pavements were scattered with the bodies of the dead and badly injured.

Ambulancewoman Hazel Haslitt, aged 31, and her partner, Linda Bright, said that Ryan opened fire on them as they tried to tend his victims. Mrs Haslitt said: 'We were about to turn into the street when we saw this man pointing a rifle at us. Then we heard him fire and the bullet ricocheted off our windscreen. I said: 'Drive on. There is no way we are going down there. We are not heroes and we have four children between us. '

At 1.20pm, a few miles away, near Marlborough, Wiltshire, the two were found wandering lost in Savernake Forest by a passerby. At 2pm, police found the body of their mother, who had been shot. The woman was in her twenties, and police confirmed that they believed this and the Hungerford incident were linked.

Police said that they had not been able to talk to the children much: 'All they can say is that mummy has been shot. '

Officers contained Ryan in the High Street area. British Telecom shut down all telephone lines to the town.

By 6pm, Ryan, was cornered at John O'Gaunt school, surrounded by armed police and police helicopters.

The school caretaker, his two children and three maintenance staff were taking shelter in a house in the school grounds. The caretaker, Mr John Miles, said that his wife had phoned him at work to tell him about the shootings. 'The next thing I knew two terrified kids came riding up the road on bicycles shouting, 'there's a man with a gun. '

'I rushed out to warn some workmen working outside my bungalow, which is near to the school. Then we saw this man wearing army-type clothes walking up the drive to the school. My two kids and I crouched behind bushes with the workmen - we could see him but he did not see us.

'He has some sort of rifle slung over his shoulder and what I think was a hand gun. To say I was scared is an understatement. My first reaction was to get myself and the children into the house. We locked all the doors and windows and lay on the floor. That is when I really began to feel scared. I started shaking but after the house was secured I called the police. '

At the Princess Margaret hospital, all non-urgent traffic had meanwhile been diverted away from the main entrance by officials with walkie-talkies as ambulances brought in the casualties.

Eight of those admitted were said to be female, including three aged under 18.

About 6 pm two more victims, both men, were admitted. A man with shoulder and thigh injuries was detained and another, said to be less seriously hurt, was transferred.

This is how the anti-gun campaigners use incidents presented like this one,to ban guns.

 

[sterling180]

'Ryan shot at me, then at my mother'
(Filed: 07/12/2004)


With violent crime a key political concern, the BBC has returned to Hungerford to make a film about the 1987 massacre. Elizabeth Grice asks why, and talks to survivors

Most of us think of the Hungerford massacre as a panorama of horror, unfolding like a film, in which a crazed gunman in full camouflage went on an afternoon's killing spree in his home town. Sixteen people were murdered by Michael Ryan that hot summer day in 1987. Fifteen were injured. He killed his mother, his neighbours and a policeman, pumping them full of bullets from a Kalashnikov with lunatic ferocity.


Alison Chapman was 16 when she was shot: the bullet is still in her body

Ryan set his house on fire and burned three others. Finally, holed up in the local school and surrounded by police marksmen, he shot himself. The retrospective narrative we know so well gives the whole thing a spurious unity. But for the people of the small Berkshire market town who were caught up in Ryan's terrible progress through Hungerford on August 19, there was no big picture, just a series of disjointed individual atrocities that made no sense.

Alison Chapman, then 16, heard what she thought was the cracking sound of workmen dropping scaffold poles. She was worried about the effect of the noise on her flighty mare, Buckskin, who was grazing nearby, so she and her mother, Linda, drove up towards Hungerford Common to check the horse. In South View, they saw a man in the road, standing beside a wrecked police car with a gun in his hand. Because of his camouflage uniform, they thought he was "something to do with the police".

"He pointed the gun at my side of the car and fired," Alison recalls. "It happened so quickly. A hot, burning sensation went through my leg and after that my body seemed to go into preservation mode. Then he started shooting at my mother. A bullet went through her shoulder. She was covered in glass and her throat was cut. Her face swelled up to twice its normal size. I have never seen anything so horrific. It looked as if she had been sprayed through a sieve with something red."

Ryan, "blank and expressionless", fired 11 bullets from his semi-automatic into their Volvo. The moment he paused to reload, Linda Chapman, with unbelievable presence of mind, reversed down the cul de sac and somehow managed to reach the doctor's surgery in her damaged car. One of Ryan's bullets had travelled through Alison's right thigh and into her lower back, destroying some of her nerves and removing a large piece of flesh. Her Wellington boot had filled with blood. Both women were deeply traumatised. Mrs Chapman, her windpipe constricted by the cut, spent two weeks in intensive care.

Alison Chapman is what the courts would term a reliable witness. There's no melodrama in her account, no bitterness or self pity, even though she has been left partially disabled and had to give up work three years ago. She has nightmares about Ryan. "In my most violent ones, I am being buried alive, chased through a wood, being stabbed or drowned or shut in a burning building. Sometimes I see Michael Ryan's face. When I wake, I am scared to go to sleep again."

The bullet is still in her body because to remove it would have risked paralysis. As a way of accommodating its inflammatory presence, she calls it Billy – "my little friend, my little foe". Immobilised by pain, she is sometimes confined to the house for several days and has to have help with simple tasks such as washing her hair. But she still feels lucky.

"Yes, it causes pain, but mostly I'm mobile. I've got a normal life. Other people went through very much worse. An experience like this makes you grateful for what you've got. We lost a lot of people we knew."


Pc Jim Wood: 'innocent people are still being killed by illegal weapons'
Alison Chapman, 33, now lives in the West Country with her husband, Richard, but many of her relatives are still in Hungerford. She consulted them before agreeing to take part in a BBC documentary about the Hungerford massacre to be shown tonight. None of them had any objections.

Hungerford is said to be in "uproar" about a programme that will inevitably open old wounds, but she thinks local distress has been exaggerated. Reassured that she would not be part of an exercise that tried to apportion blame, she was happy to contribute. "With something as unprecedented as this, you cannot lay blame," she says. "There is no manual on how to deal with something like Hungerford."

In fact, the programme resembles an extended version of a Crimewatch-type reconstruction. The short, stocky Ryan is played by a lean, unshaven actor. His depredations are intercut with the reminiscences of people he wounded or terrified, most of whom have not spoken before and seem happy to do so now.

"This is not a Rambo movie," says Simon Ford, executive producer. "It is a sensitive treatment of an important event. This was an iconic moment in recent British history and it repays looking at it again through the eyes of the victims. Many of them found it cathartic."

Outwardly, it takes a detached and chronological approach to a day of utter chaos, confusion and appalling unreadiness. The BT telephone exchange at Newbury was inadequate for the flood of 999 calls that catalogued Ryan's attacks. The Thames Valley tactical firearms squad were on a training exercise 40 miles away. The police helicopter was in for repair and had to be scrambled out of the workshop, at some risk to the pilot. "It was a very frightening scenario," admits the commanding officer, Charles Pollard, in the film.

Police communications were so woeful that for most of the operation Pollard (who had to travel 40 miles to Hungerford), had no idea where Michael Ryan was. Pollard says he felt "a ball of ice" in his stomach when he saw there were only two telephone lines at Hungerford police station, which was undergoing renovation.

He received nine separate reports of Ryan's whereabouts – but all the sightings conflicted. "You just hadn't any information," he said. "You hadn't a handle on it. I thought we had completely screwed up. I was powerless for most of the afternoon."

But he, too, was bewildered by the blitzkrieg of separate incidents and only the next morning, when the operation could be assessed against all the logistical frustrations and limitations, could he conclude: "Actually, we did OK."

The unhyped account of Ryan's murderous rampage comes from people who have all been scarred by it in some way – policemen, ambulance men, residents – people who at the time had no idea of the scale of destruction or that they were part of something unimaginably big.

Semi-automatic weapons were outlawed in Britain in 1988 as a result of Hungerford but nine years later there was Dunblane, where another loner, Thomas Hamilton, gunned down 16 children and their teacher in the gym of the local primary school. And late last year PC Ian Broadhurst was shot dead at point blank range in Leeds with a semi-automatic pistol believed to have been part of a consignment smuggled into Britain from Croatia.

The programme could have been used to point up lessons about the persistent inadequacy of gun control laws, but it is content to cite the 1988 Firearms Amendment Act as a positive outcome of the massacre. Its main message seems to be one of retrospective outrage: Michael Ryan harboured an arsenal of legal weaponry and look what happened.


Adrian Coggins now and (inset) as a paramedic: 'it's the sort of thing that stays with you for ever'

Simon Ford sees it as a way of countering the gun lobby's argument for a relaxation in the gun laws. "It is important for people to see what the consequences of these weapons were."

PC Jim Wood, whose best mate, PC Roger Brereton, perished in his police car in a blaze of 23 bullets, argues that the 1988 Firearms Amendment Act has "done no bloody good at all". Innocent people are still being killed by powerful illegal weapons. "It's a good time to remind people of that," he says.

Brereton was first on the scene. The police had been alerted by reports that someone was walking around with a gun in South View, a quiet residential cul de sac backing on to Hungerford Common. Nothing unusual about people carrying guns in pheasant country, says Wood. "In Oxford Street, yes, but not in woolly old Berkshire."

When he arrived, another colleague was coming towards him covered in blood and he saw Ryan pumping his friend's car full of bullets. Then Ryan turned and fired at Wood. "My reaction was disbelief and a little bit of terror. I could hear the bullets whizzing past but at the time I was not scared for myself," he says. "It didn't register. You just switch into police mode, work mode. I honestly don't think my ticket came out of the hat that day." Wood had to break the news to Brereton's wife, the worst thing he has ever had to do.

He had no idea of the scale of the disaster, or where he fitted into the puzzle, until the late evening news. The next day, he went into work as usual. "It was my duty – though I hasten to say I didn't do a lot." Eighteen months later, he was being treated for post-traumatic stress syndrome and, when he went back to work, he was on traffic duties. "Not a day goes past when I don't think about what happened. My best buddy was killed. I'm hoping this programme will lay the ghosts to rest."

He believes there is no such thing as being prepared for the unimaginable. "The same could happen again," he says. "West Berkshire is a vast area. The whole killing field was done in 55 minutes."

Adrian Coggins was only 23, a rookie ambulanceman, when Hungerford erupted. The ambulance crew ahead had been shot at but he and his colleague did not receive their message to keep away. The scene was mayhem, he says. He remembers the unusual high-pitched cracking sound of the Kalashnikov and the sight of PC Roger Brereton lying across the front seats of the police car, a radio still spluttering in his hand, the engine running.

He found Ivor Jackson badly wounded, Dorothy Ryan dead and a young girl shot in the legs. "I thought I was gone," says Jackson. "Adrian saved my life."

"It's the sort of thing that stays with you for ever. I wasn't offered any counselling. You just carried on in those days. When I pieced it all together, I couldn't believe it. Nothing happens in Hungerford."

Charles Pollard thinks Britain "grew up" as a result of Hungerford. "The realisation that this could happen in fun-loving England, where we don't have guns and the police aren't armed... it changed policing and it changed society for ever."


The Hungerford Massacre is on BBC1 tonight, at 9pm

 

[JesseJames]

Yes, lone gunman run rampant stories do get an emotional response. How can it not?
Unfortunately, emotions do cloud judgement. This isn't and shouldn't be about guns.
It is about a disturbed person who went mad and let the world know it.
I am rethinking my stance on a lot of gun issues. I used to think the AWB made some sense but now I am seeing it for what it really is. Just a piece of "feel good" legislation. Absolutely fallacious and a pain in the you know what for all law-abiding gun owners.
I am a law-abiding citizen. And I don't believe that incidents like this, though tragic, should infringe upon my right to own a certain type of firearm.
Lawmakers should put their efforts where it should go; education on mentally ill people and extreme emotional disturbance. What people know about this is what they glean from movies. Big mistake. It comes in all stripes and shades. Believe me, I know.
It's been said that only the military and law enforcement should own the high capacity weapons.
NO. This is wrong and un-American.
Remember the L.A. riots? The police did a great job there didn't they?
God forbid should something like that happen again but should it, I would be comforted to know that I have an Armalite AR-10 locked and loaded and ready with a couple of 20-round clips to defend my home and loved ones. And I will shoot to KILL.

 

[sterling180]

Accused 'had gun under mattress'

Pc Ian Broadhurst was shot and killed on Boxing Day
A loaded gun was found hidden under a mattress in a room allegedly used by a man accused of shooting three police officers, a court has been told.
The 9mm semi-automatic pistol was found in a room at the Royal Hotel Dunston, Gateshead, where armed officers had earlier arrested David Bieber.

Newcastle Crown Court was told the gun was ready to fire.

Mr Bieber, of Springwood Road, Leeds, denies murdering Pc Ian Broadhurst and two charges of attempted murder.

The court was told Pc Broadhurst, 34, was already dying from a gunshot wound to the chest when a second shot was fired to his head.

Gun shop

Forensic pathologist Christopher Milroy said there was a "strong possibility" he would have died from the abdominal wound, regardless of the head wound.

He also told the court Pc Broadhurst's colleague, Pc Neil Roper, 45, was blasted in the shoulder and abdomen and could have bled to death from his injuries if he had not received medical treatment.

The court heard how a man, who the prosecution say is Bieber, bought 1,000 cartridge cases and a reloading press from a gun shop in Hertfordshire during the summer of 2003.

However, shop worker Henry Whittick was not able to supply two components of the reloading press.

His friend took down the man's details. He gave his name as Nathan Coleman of 10, Springwood Road, Leeds.

Earlier, Robert Clark of the Southern Gun Company, said he supplied a Nathan W Coleman with 900 cartridge cases in August 2003.

Social security card

Later, the court was taken through a list of items handed in at a Northumberland police station which belonged to Bieber.

There was more than £6,000 in notes and loose change, and a birth certificate and social security card in the name of American citizen David Michael Dudgeon, issued by the State of Ohio.

There was also a birth certificate in the name of Nathan Wayne Coleman, a National Insurance card in the same name, a bank card and a South Carolina identity card in the same name.

There was also 205 bulleted cartridges and some medication in tablet form.

Pc Broadhurst, 34, was killed and his colleague Pc Neil Roper, 45, seriously injured in the shooting in Leeds on Boxing Day 2003.

A third officer, Pc James Banks, 27, escaped injury after a bullet struck his radio.

The defendant also denies possessing a firearm with intent to endanger life and possessing 200 9mm bullet pistol cartridges.

He has admitted possessing 298 9mm bullet cartridges without a firearms certificate.

 

[chas_martel]

It occurs to me that part of the problem is that "we" have already
lost becuase we are using the anti's logic.

Why all the discussion about crimes committed with firearms.

Crimes committed with firearms have no bearing on your
right to have firearms. This is a ploy by the left, they
have set the tone, words and topics used in the discussion.

Stop letting them do that. Please!

 

[Zen21Tao]

I remember studying "self-fulfilling prophecies" in my last two psychology classes. A self-fulfilling prophecy is a false prediction such that the behavior involved in making the prediction actually causes it to come true. An example is a false media report (made on bad data) that says a stock’s value will fall where the fear of this prediction causes people to sell their stock thus making the price on the stock fall.

I can see how anti-gun arguments are also self-fulfilling prophecies. They insist on banning guns citing that guns are used to cause massacres. The result is law abiding citizens without guns but criminals still get them. Then when a criminal pulls a gun and no armed law abiding citizens are around to stop the criminal he is able to turn a gun crime into a massacre. It's too bad they don't see that the highest crime rates are in cities with the strictest gun control laws.

 

[chas_martel]

Zen21Tao is right. Last night I caught a brief moment on the TV
show "House" where the star was shot. I had the same thought
as he mentioned above.

I also had the thought - if chas_martel had been there the bad
guy would not have gotten a second shot. I was scratching
my head about why nobody was drawing down on the BG.

 

[sterling180]

Day a killer brought terror to the streets Feb 23 2005




By Ray Marshall, The Evening Chronicle


Fifteen years ago this week the Chronicle's front-page story told of Rambo-style killer Robert James Sartin's first court appearance.

Sartin had brought terror to the quiet streets of West Monkseaton, gunning down father-of-two Kenneth Mackintosh and, over the following 15 minutes, injuring another 14 with his pump-action shotgun.

Sartin was in court for a hearing and an attempt to fix a trial date. He was eventually sent to Ashworth Hospital in Liverpool to be detained.


It was around 11.40am on April 30, 1989 when Sartin, carrying a double-barrelled shotgun and dressed in black with dark glasses, got into his car outside his parents' home.


He drove to Pykerly Road, where he came across 43-year-old Judith Rhodes, who was in her own car. A shot rang out, her windscreen shattered and she dived for cover.


A second shot hit her left hand and she ran to a nearby house.


Shortly afterwards Sartin shot Lorraine Noble, causing extensive injuries. Then he aimed the shotgun at three people before moving on to shoot and kill Kenneth Mackintosh, who was on his way home from morning service, walking along Windsor Road.


He first shot him from 20 yards away and as Mr Mackintosh fell and cried out, he reached up to Sartin pleading for help.


"No," Sartin told him, "it is your day to die."


He then fired a further two shots into the helpless Mackintosh.


Sartin then fired on Robert Wilson before cyclist Brian Thoms shouted: "Don't be so bloody stupid." Sartin responded by blasting him out of the saddle. William Reynolds was next, shot in the back and neck. The next victims were the Burgon family. Peter and Jean Burgon were injured when he shot at their car. Their daughter Nicola escaped injury.


Kathleen Myley, aged 64, was then shot and Ernest Carter received wounds in the back of the legs. Roy Brown was injured as Sartin fired through his windscreen.


Jean Miller was in her garden when Sartin shot her in the stomach. The most bizarre incident happened when he knocked at the door of pensioner Vera Burrows. She found herself face to face with the killer and asked what the hell he was doing.


Sartin replied: "It's me. I am killing people. I am going to kill you."


He then pointed the gun at her, but said: "Oh, you are old, I won't kill you." and walked away.


He drove to the seafront, where he was arrested.


If any of you noticed that the reporter,said Robert carried a pump-action shotgun,then he changed it to a double-barrelled shotgun.

Robert Sartin actually carried a double-barrelled shotgun,on his rampage,but despite this,no one said that double-barrelled guns should be banned though.

 

[Boats]

The difference in most of free America is the Sartin story wouldn't likely end with details about his trial or incarceration status, rather whether a private citizen or the police gunned him down first.

If, while I was in my home some nitwit with a double barrel prowled my neighborhood blasting people at random, the coroner would have had to count how many .357 Mags I got into him with my Marlin 1984C.

Were it an encounter on the road, rather than yelling at him to not be so stupid, he'd have been finding out why the 1911A1 and the 230 grain JHP are admired by so many of the good guys in this country.

Would be mass murderers in this country have been stopped cold by gun savvy people, both armed and unarmed. We simply do not curl up into a permanent and nationwide fetal position when some whack job abuses a freedom.

 

[Waitone]

How many such unpleasant event have been stopped before starting just because there is a possibility the perp will experience interruption in their intent by someone willing to shoot back.

 

[sterling180]

Were it an encounter on the road, rather than yelling at him to not be so stupid, he'd have been finding out why the 1911A1 and the 230 grain JHP are admired by so many of the good guys in this country.

Its a shame that a gun owner,who lived near him at the time- armed with a Colt 1911A1-never shot at him.The UK,in that year allowed citizens to own all types of handguns.

Robert Sartin committed his crimes because he was obsessed with the Halloween movies and he claimed that Mike Myers,from Halloween,told him to kill people with a shotgun.

He was inspired by Micheal Ryans Hungerford Massacre,and asked his dad to drive him through the areas of Hungerford,where Micheal Ryan killed people with his guns.

The shotgun Sartin used,belonged to his dad,by the way.

 

[sterling180]

Student jailed after child sex sting


Sadowski will not be placed on the sex offenders' register
A student who planned to become a teacher has been jailed for three years for trying to procure a nine-year-old girl for sex over the internet.
Luke Sadowski, 19, admitted attempting to incite another to procure a child under 16 and possessing an imitation gun.

He was sentenced to 18 months for each offence, with the sentences to run consecutively.

Sadowski, from Bishop's Stortford, Hertfordshire, was arrested in an undercover operation following a tip-off from police in the United States, Southwark Crown Court heard.

Under current legislation, he could only receive a maximum of two years for trying to procure a child and will not have to go on the sex offenders' register.


Sadowski intended to study to become a primary school teacher and we can only be grateful that he was caught well in advance of this becoming possible

Detective Chief Inspector Matthew Sarti

The law is now being changed and anyone charged with a similar offence in a year's time could face a maximum of 14 years.

Lisa Wilding, prosecuting, told the court Sadowski used internet chat rooms in an attempt to find a child victim.


But the website he used was set up by US law enforcement agents to trap paedophiles.

When Sadowski, who has already served 10 months in custody, continued asking to be introduced to a young girl, they alerted Scotland Yard's paedophile unit.

Using the name Ben Smith on the internet, Sadowski was told to get in touch with the site's UK agents, who were in reality members of Scotland Yard's paedophile unit.


Undercover operation

Referring to the nine-year-old he thought he was going to meet, he told one officer: "I am not going to mistreat her, not too much, if you know what I mean."

The undercover officers met him at London's Victoria station and took him in a cab equipped with video recording equipment to a hotel where he was arrested.

In addition to the gun, he also had on him a teddy bear and a condom.


These implements were found in Sadowski's home

The court heard Sadowski had set up a memorial site on his computer for murdered schoolgirl Sarah Payne and was going to do one for the Soham schoolgirls.

Sadowski was about to begin a foundation course at Canterbury Christ Church University College, which would have allowed him to pursue a degree in primary school education.

Judge Gordon told Sadowski there were a number of features in the case which "give rise to real serious concern about the danger you may pose to women."

'Fantasy and bravado'

He had read psychiatric and probation reports which also indicated "elements of fantasy and bravado".

Emma Edham, defending, said Sadowski had behaved in a "stupid, frightening and disgusting way", but "it was no more than a boy's stupid experimentation".

NSPCC policy advisor Christine Atkinson said in a statement: "We welcomed the clearer offences and tougher sentences for sex offenders announced in the Queen's Speech last November.

"It is a priority that the proposed legislation is implemented as soon as possible to protect children."


Two weeks before his arrest he had been due to spend a week working at a primary school to gain work experience, but this was cancelled by the school after they were contacted by police.



When his student accommodation was searched police discovered a safe containing leg shackles, handcuffs, an extending police baton, a kitchen knife and a roll of tape, Miss Wilding told the court.


Police video shows the moment a replica handgun was found in Sadowski's waistband

They also found several newspaper articles about paedophiles, child abductions and murders.

Detective Chief Inspector Matthew Sarti, of the Metropolitan Police Paedophile Unit, said: "By conducting this operation we have identified and brought to justice a young man who posed a considerable danger to children.

"The contents of Sadowski's safe show what can only be described as sadistic implements of restraint, apparently assembled within days of his new found freedom and financial liberty at college

"Sadowski intended to study to become a primary school teacher and we can only be grateful that he was caught well in advance of this becoming possible.

"The successful prosecution of Sadowski shows that police are prepared to do all it takes to protect children from those who want to abuse them".

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39389000/jpg/_39389389_gun_bod203.jpg


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/39388000/jpg/_39388137_knives203bod.jpg

The questions is,had this had been a real gun,then more bans for us.But I think that this will be used by the antis as propaganda.

 

[Phetro]

It is crucial that congress and the white house remain under conservative control...

Correction: the White House is not currently under conservative control. In fact, conservatism is to the current administration as gold is to straw. (Edit: oops, I already mentioned that earlier...) But here's another thing:

We still have no idea how the two new appointees will vote on Second-Amendment issues. Alito voted against machine gun bans (correctly, of course)--however, this was on commerce clause grounds. If he is opposed to or afraid of coming out and declaring all gun control void as its enacting laws are repugnant to the Constitution, what good is he?

 

[G36-UK]

The questions is,had this had been a real gun,then more bans for us.But I think that this will be used by the antis as propaganda.

Well, look on the (admittedly not that) bright side: it makes a change form them blatantly making stuff up.

 

[sterling180]

Officers found guns and explosives at Tovey's home

A racist who police believe was planning to launch a terror campaign has been jailed for 11 years.
Pipe bombs, a sub-machine gun, two shotguns, a pistol and bullets were discovered in the home of 37-year-old David Tovey.

Police say the loner was planning a one-man race war after uncovering the arsenal at his home in Canterton, Oxfordshire.

Sentencing Tovey at Oxford Crown Court on Friday, Judge Mary Jane Mowat said: "The weapons, the body-building equipment, the military car, the military clothing all suggest the fantasy life of a lone commando.


Tovey: House was store for "bomb factory"


"I think that the right catalyst could well have provoked him into acting out real violence against persons or property."

She said that, while he had never actually carried out any act of violence, her sentencing had to reflect the very real anxiety felt by the public about guns, bombs and racial hatred.

Tovey was arrested in February after scrawling abuse in a petrol station toilet in Stratford-upon-Avon.

The haul of weapons was only uncovered when police investigating a campaign of racist graffiti raided Tovey's house.

Neighbouring homes were evacuated and the bomb squad called in following the police raid in February 2002.

Tovey admitted three explosives charges and six firearms charges and was found guilty at a trial in October of two charges of racially aggravated criminal damage.

He was sentenced to a total of eight years for the firearms and explosives charges and a further three years for the two counts of racially aggravated graffiti, to run consecutively.

Judge Mowat made a recommendation that he serve at least half of the prison sentence.

After the court hearing, Detective Superintendent Steve Morrison, from Thames Valley Police, said: "This shows that racism will not be tolerated by the police in our communities."

Hidden arsenal


Among the weapons, ammunition, equipment and information found at Tovey's house were:

· a SPAZ pump-action smooth bore gun. Often used by swat teams in the US and shown in Hollywood action films, it has a range of 40m

· a second world war Sten submachine gun, adapted so that two or more missiles could be successively fired without repeated pressure on trigger. Deadly in close combat

· a Baikal pistol. A new barrel less than 30cm long and silencer had been added to this. Police believe Tovey adapted the weapon on his workbench

· a single shot weapon which had been disguised as a police-style baton.

· a quantity of PE4 explosive of the kind used by the British army. Tovey had enough to destroy a small building.

· a homemade explosive containing sodium, chlorate and sugar, which can have a similar effect to napalm. The sugar makes the material stick to skin

· components for pipe bombs and some already assembled pipe bombs, which had been carved with lines in order to create shrapnel

· a CS gas gun and CS gas spray

· body armour of the kind used by Nato forces and camouflage clothing

· books such as The Death Dealer's Manual, The Poisoner's Handbook, The Black Book of Arson and The Black Book of Boobytraps.

· videos from the US which have instructions on how to make nailbombs

 

[makarova]

Sterling 180

"Now I for one think that all firearms should always be licensed-for obvious reasons" Sterling, I think you will find many of us on this forum would disagree with that. You see, licensing and registration have only one real use, confiscation. They are useless at preventing whackos from getting guns, and are of no use whatsoever at solving crimes. Marvelous tool for police when they go round collecting previously legal firearms from the lawabiding. Guess who they wont be visiting? Yep the criminals. Give that some thought, please and I would love to hear what you think about this.

 

[TallPine]

Personally, if further laws were pushed, I would support "Responsible" controls, those being laws that would prevent criminals getting guns without impeding the law abiding in any way.

No such law ever has or ever will exist.

Anyone who would commit a violent crime with a gun, would not blink at commiting a lesser crime to obtain a gun.

 

[sterling180]

Dunblane murderer 'was paranoid'

Thomas Hamilton killed 16 children and a teacher
Newly-released documents have detailed gunman Thomas Hamilton's paranoia about police and parents in Dunblane.
He killed 16 children and a teacher at Dunblane Primary School in March 1996 before shooting himself.

More than 3,000 witness statements and other documents from the Cullen Inquiry into the shootings have been released.

One witness, who knew the gunman for about 15 years, told police how Hamilton regularly phoned him to complain about people in Dunblane.

"I would say he did have a thing, almost paranoia, about the Scouts, police and parents in Dunblane," the witness told police.

I got the impression that he seemed to be giving up his battles against the various organisations and local authorities

Witness statement

"He felt everyone was against him, really the whole thing became repetitive and very boring. I never paid a great deal of attention when he started."

The witness, who was aged 28 at the time, said Hamilton's grievances seemed to have diminished in the six months before the killings.

"I got the impression that he seemed to be giving up his battles against the various organisations and local authorities," he said.

"I do remember that when he was going on about the problems he was having about his boys' clubs, he would specifically mention Dunblane, mainly the parents who he felt were going about talking about him, he felt they were ganging up on him."

The witness had attended one of Hamilton's boys clubs and had worked in his shop.

Telephone code

He said Hamilton had started phoning him in 1990 after losing touch for several years.

However, the calls became such a nuisance that the witness' family developed a telephone code so he could distinguish their calls.

The man spoke to Hamilton for about 45 minutes the night before the killings.


The files were to have remained secret for 100 years

During the conversation Hamilton complained that his camera business was not going well and said he did not want to spend his life alone.

"This was not the worst I had heard him," said the witness.

"He certainly seemed down, but not as bad as on other occasions."

The documents have been made available after initially being placed under a 100-year closure order.

Another witness told how he confronted Hamilton over pictures he had taken of his partner's young son.

No charges

The man said that he and his friends had gone to Hamilton's home in Stirling, where they kicked the front door and demanded that he hand over the photographs.

The police were called and officers found a picture of the boy in the house, although Hamilton was not prepared to hand it over.

The man said: "After a short period of time, we were released by the police, saying that there wouldn't be any charges against us.

"However, the police did say that our allegations against Hamilton would be looked into and that he may already be under investigation."


Thomas Hamilton killed 16 children and a teacher

 

[sterling180]

Sheriff's fury at Dunblane hoaxer

Pritchard said he was the man who murdered 16 children and a teacher
A hoaxer who called Dunblane Primary School claiming to be the killer Thomas Hamilton has been dismissed as "sick" and an "imbecile".
A sheriff launched a tirade against Robert Pritchard, 36, from Wales, as he placed him on two years' probation.

Pritchard phoned the school in March last year, days before the anniversary of the murder of 16 young children and their teacher by Hamilton in 1996.

He said he wanted to see the school as he wished to send his children there.

Stirling Sheriff Court heard that when he told a member of staff that his name was Thomas Hamilton, she became visibly upset.

Hamilton entered the school on 13 March, 1996 and gunned down 16 Primary One pupils and their teacher, injuring many more victims in the shooting spree. Hamilton then shot himself.

It's difficult to comprehend how someone can be so sick as to make such a call to a school where 16 children and their teacher were brutally massacred

Sheriff Wyllie Robertson


Full text of sentencing statement

Sheriff Wyllie Robertson was told that Pritchard had committed the act to get back at people who picked on him in the past. He claimed they said he was like the loner Hamilton.

The sheriff left the bench and phoned the psychiatrist who had assessed Pritchard prior to sentencing him.

He told the accused, from Penarth in South Wales: "It's difficult to comprehend how someone can be so sick as to make such a call to a school where 16 children and their teacher were brutally massacred.

"The families of those children are still struggling to cope with their grief.

"Those families and the local community have borne that grief with tremendous dignity and fortitude.

"They don't deserve to have the actings of imbeciles such as you inflicted upon them."

The sheriff added: "But as bad as that was, I am satisfied that this phone call was the limit of your callous intentions."

'Immediately distressed'

Sheriff Robertson said he felt the families of the Dunblane victims would agree that Pritchard was "more to be pitied than anything else".

He had told school receptionist Jean Grant his name was Hamilton and he wanted to visit the school on 13 March - aware that the date was the anniversary of the massacre.

Mrs Grant became "immediately distressed" and head teacher Joy McFarlane then took control of the telephone conversation.

An appointment was made for Pritchard and his wife to visit the school on 17 March and he was traced when staff relayed their unease to the police.

Pritchard was arrested on 13 April, 2004 and admitted that he had made the call.

He told South Wales Police: "I was persecuted and bullied as a child like Thomas Hamilton.

"It was just a wind-up to get them back for what they did to me when I was younger. I didn't threaten to kill anyone."

Defence agent Ken Dalling said: "Although he was striking metaphorically at the school, his object was retribution against others for the torment that he suffered at their hands when he was likened to Thomas Hamilton when the Dunblane incident was first in the news."

Pritchard tried to address the court at the end of the case but was silenced by the sheriff.

 

[xd9fan]

It always feels like we teeter one way or the other but right now I feel pretty good about things.

Not to nit pick, But I dont feel as great. Conservatives are running for the closet. The two main national parties are moderate (at best) with gun owners Rights. Everyday the national GOP looks like the "the other" Pro Govt Party.
No talk of repealing the 34 and 68 unconstitutional laws (and SCOTUS wont touch it will a 10 foot pole)

post 9/11: Liberty is getting kicked around "for your security"

The state level is doing better with all the conceal carry laws and "stand your ground" laws (but still its a permit from "the state" for your "Rights") Only 2 states have it right!!!

sorry to pee in your cherrios but I still see everyday people thinking that only good solutions to problems are ones that come from Govt.

 

[freebird]

I think we have come a very long way personally. Unfortunately I feel we have a long road still ahead of us.

Here in Tulsa a 75 year old man shot a robber in a grocery store and the police and citizens overall looked favorably upon it. I wonder what would have happen if the legal concealed carry shooter had been younger or if some innocent bystander would have gotten hurt how things would have turned out. Everyone in the store was thanking the gentleman but I am sure if some innocent bystander had been shot he would have had a lawsuit on his hands.

 

[Manedwolf]

I think what happens in 2008 will affect a lot. I do think the Republicans are going to lose the White House after years of Bush debacles, but don't see Hillary going anywhere. Too many people dislike her.

If Russ Feingold, who has intelligently rethought his position and voted AGAINST the AWB renewal gets in, I think we'd see pretty much the same as we have now. No new laws, business as usual. I don't see him soap-boxing on the issue.

But now they're talking about Gore running again, and HE wanted everything from mandatory ID cards and national registry to one-per-month limits and everything else terrifying.

 

[Battler]

Gun rights is the mother superior of lost causes.

While few favor banning guns, 77% of the pouplation supports any given "reasonable" gun laws. Reasonable ones, neither at the "extreme" of just anyone being able to buy assault weapons and not wanting to be licensed, and the "extreme" of round up all the 22s.

At any given time, most gun owners support the "reasonable" gun law de jour.

The gun laws are generally in two categories, "Damage control" and "roundup".

Damage control means arresting the number of guns outstanding that are to ultimately be retrieved, and culling the participation. For the latter of these, further restrictions, while borne by existing gunowners, discourages participation of new people (who become obstacles to further law). Licensing falls in this category.

"Roundup" means confiscation. This can't really work prior to registration. Not just to know where to collect the guns; but to prevent the confiscation from being a real confiscation - rather than a tightening of registration requirements for existing guns. There was no confiscation in Australia, it is accurately portrayed by Rebecca Peters as "sensible standardisation of registration laws" - with a generous buyback for people who did not wish to meet them. Sure, most guns go subterranean; but they don't come back up, and new ones don't get sold, problem solved.


Gun control can't be stopped, the cultural inertia of it is too great.

We're really just buying time.

Fight hard.

Battler

 

[sterling180]

This is one reason,why the UK cops were hostile towards terrorists and towards legal gunowners.The following section is extracted from the author Jeremy Josephs,Hungerford:One mans massacre-which was a detailed account of that terrible massacre.This section,includes the actual dialogue,between Sgt Paul Brightwell and Micheal Ryan-before Ryan killed himself,with his Beretta M92f.

Possibly the following section,could explain,why their policies are "shoot to kill-when dealing with terrorists and would-be bombers.

Sgt Paul Brightwell,was a section and platoon leader of the Thames Valley Police departments,Tactical Firearms Unit-who were the equiverlant of a typical American Swat team.

Brightwell and Ryan’s conversation, which was to last almost an hour and a half, began when the gunman finally confirmed that he had heard the police message that he was surrounded. But the exchange hardly seemed to get off to a promising start.

SERGEANT: What is your first name, Mr Ryan?

RYAN: It is nothing to do with you. Mind your own business.

SERGEANT: That’s OK. I just want to talk to you and get you out safely. Do you understand?

RYAN: Yes, I’ve nothing against you.

SERGEANT: What weapons do you have with you?

RYAN: One 9mm pistol and ammunition.

SERGEANT: Mr Ryan, this is very important. Do not come to the window holding any weapons. Do you understand?

RYAN: I understand. I also have a grenade.

SERGEANT: Do not come to the window with the grenade. Do you understand?

RYAN: Yes.

SERGEANT: What type of grenade is it?

RYAN: Israeli fragmentation type.

SERGEANT: I want to get you out of the building safely.

RYAN: Yes.

SERGEANT: It is important that you do not come to the window with any weapon. Do you understand?

RYAN: Yes.

‘It was a bit of a relief when I was immediately answered,’ Sergeant Brightwell would later reveal. ‘He was actually easy to talk to. The whole enormity of what he had done didn’t dawn upon me at the time. I had met George Noon on the way down though, and seen Douglas Wainwright slumped over his car - so I knew what he had done all right. I just wanted to keep him talking - to get him out of the building, as you can see from my report. I didn’t want him to be shot. That’s the training. Although I’m not a proper police negotiator, we do learn how to negotiate with someone in a building as part of our overall tactical training. I was nervous but not shaking. So at this stage I switched my radio off, in order to be able to concentrate more effectively. Another PC with me was in radio contact and reporting back all the time to Mr Lambert.’

Chief Inspector Lambert, leading the Support Group, had by now moved out of his Portakabin outside Hungerford police station and headed towards the school. Accompanying him on this short journey was a trained police negotiator, expert in psychological tactics and techniques, who had been standing by for some time. But Lambert was soon satisfied that the dialogue between Sergeant Brightwell and Ryan was going well. It was his judgement that no useful purpose could be served by a sudden change of personnel. In fact he was more worried about Ryan’s claim to have a grenade, so he ordered additional police armoury to cover the window of the classroom where the gunman had been seen. As the Chief Inspector continued to monitor the dialogue, he became convinced that Ryan was going to give himself UP.

Just as the head of the Support Group was happy for Sergeant Brightwell to proceed with the negotiations, so the Assistant Chief Constable, Charles Pollard, was content to follow the judgement of his firearms adviser.

‘While I was in overall charge of the police operation, you do have to be able to delegate,’ Charles Pollard would later insist. ‘So I let Paul Brightwell get on with it via Glyn Lambert. Because once I knew that we had the school contained, it became, in some respects, a routine policing matter. We now had the situation under control. It was at this stage that I too went down to the school.’

‘Although the conversation went on for well over an hour,’ Sergeant Brightwell would later explain, ‘it seemed more like five minutes. All the time he was both lucid and calm. There were the odd gaps in the dialogue, but other than that it was almost continuous. On several occasions I really did think that he was going to make a move and come out. I knew precisely how I wanted him to come out, because of the training. But he did keep on asking about his mother.’

Altogether, Ryan would ask the Sergeant about the plight of his mother, Dorothy, well over a dozen times. Indeed it was the central theme of their conversation.

RYAN: I want to know how my mother is. Tell me about my mother.

SERGEANT: I will try to find out about your mother. Just bear with me.

RYAN: I must know about my mother.

SERGEANT: Mr Ryan, do you have any other weapons?

RYAN: I’ve got a.32 CZ pistol but that is in for repair. I must know about my mother. Tell me. I will throw the grenade out of the window.

SERGEANT: Don’t do that. I’m trying to find out.

RYAN: That is ridiculous. You must know. I want to know.

SERGEANT: Mr Ryan, when I tell you to, I want you to stand up and look out of the widow to the front of the school.

RYAN: What for?

SERGEANT: If you stand up, we will know what door you are coming out of.

RYAN: I’m not standing up, Have you found out about my mother yet?

SERGEANT: Not yet, I’m still trying.

RYAN: I’m not coming out until I know.

‘As you can see; Sergeant Brightwell would later explain, ‘he kept on asking about his mother. But I can tell you that she was as dead as a doornail. It seemed to me that by asking about her continuously he was almost trying to let himself off of the hook in some way.

The conversation continued.

SERGEANT: I want you to leave all your weapons in that room. Do you understand?

RYAN: Yes. My pistol is tied to my wrist with a lanyard. I have one round of ammunition.

SERGEANT: Can you undo the lanyard?

RYAN: No.

‘I must say that I was perplexed by this man,’ Ryan’s interlocutor would later admit ‘I just wanted him to do as I was telling him. I still thought that I was going to get him out. It seemed to me as if he wanted to come out. I was shouting because of the distance between us. A couple of times I had to ask him to speak up. But what he said about the gun being tied to his wrist with a lanyard worried me. Because I knew that if he did come out he could easily have been shot, had the gun been misinterpreted, for example. But he still seemed to be happy to talk. He asked about my rank and so on. So we carried on talking.’

SERGEANT: It is important that you come out with no weapons.

RYAN: I had an M1 carbine which I left in the park. It was on a gravel path near the body of a mate I shot near the swimming pool. There should be a thirty-round magazine with it.

SERGEANT: Thank you for that, Mr Ryan.

RYAN: Also, there is my dog. Has anybody found that? It is a black labrador. I shot it. I had my eyes shut the first time and I just winged it. I have undone the lanyard. I also have body armour.

SERGEANT: Thank you. Will you come out?

RYAN: I am not coming out until I know about my mother.

SERGEANT: I am trying to find out. But I want you to come out leaving all your weapons in the room.

RYAN: Where shall I leave them - on the window-sill?

SERGEANT: Don’t come to the window holding any weapon. Just leave them on the floor. Do you understand?

RYAN: Yes.

SERGEANT: Just leave all your weapons in the room and come out.

RYAN: I will come down the stairs outside.

SERGEANT: The stairs with the rifle out in front?

RYAN: Yes, those stairs.

SERGEANT: When you come outside look to the left and you will see me. Do not make any move towards the rifle. I want you to leave your body armour in the room as well, Mr Ryan.

RYA N: Why’s that?

SERGEANT: I need to be able to see you have nothing concealed, that you understand my position.

RYAN: Yes, I understand. I am not going to come out until I know about my mother.

SERGEANT: I am doing my best, Mr Ryan. I am still trying to find out about your mother. If you come out, we will be able to sort it out much quicker.

Sergeant Brightwell later explained: ‘All the time I was trying to play down what he had done. To give him the impression that we could sort everything out - that I was a sort of friend who he could talk to - even though it was obvious that the bloke was completely nuts and needed locking away for the rest of his life. So when he asked about the casualty figures, I again tried to talk the whole thing down.’

RYAN: What are the casualty figures?

SERGEANT: I don’t know. Obviously you know you shot a lot of people.

RYAN: Hungerford must be a bit of a mess.

SERGEANT: You are right. They know you have been through. Do you know how many you have shot?

RYAN: I don’t know. Its like a bad dream.

SERGEANT: It has happened. The sooner you come out, the easier it will be to sort out.

RYAN: I know it’s happened. I’m not stupid.

SERGEANT: I know that, mate.

RYAN: How’s my mother? She’s dead, isn’t she? That’s why you will not tell me. I am throwing the magazine of the pistol out. I still have one round left, though.

SERGEANT: Why do you have that?

RYAN: It is obvious, isn’t it?

SERGEANT: I want to get you out safely. Don’t do anything silly.

RYAN: Don’t worry. I have nothing against you. You have got your job to do.

That afternoon there was another man in Hungerford with a job to do. Sergeant David Warwick, a senior firearms instructor in the Support Group, had Michael Ryan in his telescopic gun sight for a full minute. And yet he chose not to pull the trigger.

‘If I had fired,’ he comments, ‘then I would have been a murderer. I would have been no better than him. He was unlikely to shoot anybody else. Nor was he any longer a threat to the police or the public. It was also extremely unlikely that he was going to abscond or commit other offences. You have got to have the justification before shooting someone and the justification wasn’t there.’

Unaware that Sergeant Warwick’s gun had been trained on him, albeit from outside the school, Ryan continued to ask about his mother.

RYAN: You must have a radio. Get on that and find out. How many people are with you?

SERGEANT: Just a couple.

RYAN: Well, get them to do it. Have you found the M1 carbine yet?

SERGEANT: They are still looking, Mr Ryan. I have passed on all the details.

RYAN: It is just that there were some kids nearby. I don’t want them to find it. And what about my dog? Have you found it? Was it on the Common?

SERGEANT: Is it important?

RYAN: Yes.

SERGEANT: It is at Hungerford police station.

RYAN: Will you look after it?

SERGEANT: Of course we will.

RYAN: Will you give it a decent burial?

SERGEANT: Yes, Mr Ryan. If you come out, you can see the dog yourself.

RYAN: What about my mother? She is dead. I know she is dead. Have you found her yet?

SERGEANT: I am still waiting, Mr Ryan.

RYAN: I have picked up my gun again.

SERGEANT: Don’t do that, Mr Ryan. If you come out I will find out. All you have to do is walk slowly down the stairs with your hands in the air. Have you seen anybody in the school?

R YAN: No. I am on my own. I haven’t any hostages. What time is it?

SERGEANT: It is 6.24.

RYAN: If only the police car hadn’t turned up. If only my car had started.

SERGEANT: Will you come out now please, Mr Ryan?

RYAN: I want to think about it. Why won’t you tell me about my mother?

SERGEANT: I don’t know. As soon as you come out, we’ll find out together.

RYAN: I won’t come out until I know. I did not mean to kill her. It was a mistake.

SERGEANT: I understand that, mate.

RYAN: How can you understand? I wish I had stayed in bed.

SERGEANT: Mr Ryan, just come down. Leave all your weapons in the room and come down.

Within the sixty seconds that Sergeant Warwick’s gun was trained on Ryan, the gunman appeared at the window, apparently unarmed. Warwick wondered if it was perhaps Ryan’s way of asking the police to bring about the end. But still the police marksman refused to shoot. The senior firearms instructor knew very well that if Ryan had appeared at the window with a grenade, or anything remotely resembling a grenade, or indeed if he was holding a hostage, then the police response would have been totally different. But neither of these scenarios materialized.

‘All the talk was that he was going to give himself up,’ Sergeant Warwick would later explain. ‘He was in an empty school, having thrown one weapon out of the window - and I can tell you he wasn’t going anywhere. Pulling the trigger would therefore have been entirely the wrong decision.’

Still unaware that his life had been spared by the highest standards of professional policing on the part of Sergeant Warwick, Ryan began to dwell on the consequences of giving himself up. He asked if he could be taken to London.

RYAN: Will I be treated OK?

SERGEANT: Of course you will, Mr Ryan.

RYAN: Will I go to prison for a long time?

SERGEANT: I don’t know, Mr Ryan. It is not up to me.

RYAN: You must have an idea. I will get life, won’t l?

SERGEANT: I don’t know, Mr Ryan. You will go to prison for a long time.

RYAN: It’s funny. I killed all those people but I haven’t got the guts to blow my own brains out.

SERGEANT: Mr Ryan, just leave all your weapons in the room and do exactly as you are told. Don’t do anything silly. Do you understand?

RYAN: What time is it?

SERGEANT: Six-forty-five. What do you want to know the time for?

RYAN: I want to think about it. I am not coming out until I know about my mother.

SERGEANT: Mr Ryan, I am still trying to find out. If you comedown we will be able to find out together.
There followed several minutes during which time Michael Ryan did not speak. And then, at 6.52pm, Sergeant Brightwell heard a single, muffled shot from the classroom. The gunman, who had not expressed the slightest remorse for any one of his victims, was not to speak again.

‘But that was by no means the end of the matter from our point of view,’ Chief Inspector Lambert would later point out. ‘Had he shot the wall? Would we all get shot if we went in there? I kept an open mind and was determined not to rush it. But I did want to finish it before dark, only a couple of hours away. I thought that there could be a booby trap. We flew a helicopter past the window -but they couldn’t see in. Then someone got up onto the roof. We had a dog in front of us. These are the Tactical Firearms dogs who are used to training with us. So the dog went in first for us to see what the reaction would be. If there was a person in the room the dog would have reacted. The person on the roof was using mirrors on a long pole, and he saw Ryan, who appeared to be dead. I knew that we were almost home. People then went in and saw that he was indeed dead. We then used a technique to make sure that he was not wired for explosives before we touched him - and an explosives officer took over at this point. So the body was tied up and wired up and moved to make sure that there was no booby trap. Then I went into the classroom myself and saw him. My reaction was just one of relief. That it was over.’

When members of the Tactical Firearms Team entered the classroom, they found Ryan’s body slumped in a corner on the floor near a window. His back was against the wall and his 9mm Beretta pistol, hammer still cocked, remained clasped in his right hand, tied to his wrist by a bootlace. A Home Office pathologist would later confirm that Ryan had died from a single gunshot wound to the head. It had passed through his skull, shattering his brain. The bullet wound was 0.7cm at the point of entry and the skin around it blackened and as if tattooed. The bullet had fractured the skull extensively, and its heat had singed the gunman’s hair.

‘I went in with some others,’ Sergeant Brightwell recalls. ‘The doors were barricaded. And there he was, sitting beneath the window, dead. I thought, Oh - so that’s who I’ve been talking to. I didn’t feel sorry for him. I thought that’s more than he would have got if he would have come out. It’s probably as close as you could have got to justice, if you like. It wasn’t a case of brains being splattered everywhere, as you might think. But there was blood all over his face and up the wall. When it was all over I got back to the police station and phoned home. My wife, Sandy, knows not to expect me on time, and she would have known that I would have been involved. Still, she was mightily relieved to hear from me. It was midnight when I got home. The kids were in bed. You just try to play it down a bit. I’m not the hero of Hungerford. Its just that I ended up speaking to him. I was just doing the job I was trained to do. The people of Hungerford were brave - the public and the injured. When I got there, we now know, it was all over. He had shot his last person. In any case, I had a gun and a flak jacket, and I was surrounded by eight blokes. Those who got it had nothing. The local police were unarmed - Roger Brereton and the like. So compared to what some people saw, and to what they still have to deal with, you realize that you got off lightly.’

According to one of the tabloid newspapers, soon after the announcement that Ryan had shot himself, a good number of the townsfolk of Hungerford went wild with delight. It reported that some residents living near to the school ran into the street chanting: ‘The bastard’s dead, the bastard’s dead.’ The paper claimed that children, many of whom had been ordered to hide under their beds while Ryan was on the loose, cycled up and down yelling ‘Good riddance’, while in the pubs of Hungerford, drinkers toasted his death. Hungerford’s mourning had thus still to begin.

Ron Tarry formed a completely different impression as he walked around the town in the wake of the shootings. He explains: ‘I saw people shocked and talking in hushed tones to each other. My impression was that it was largely the press and others who had rushed into the town and were drinking in the pubs. Not one resident toasted Ryan’s death, and there were no signs of rejoicing. What that newspaper reported was totally untrue.