Gun Control Today

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Makarova:

I think that it is a very difficult thing,to argue about the licensing of firearms.The only reason why I approved of it,was because crooks could easily get legal arms-because there would be no register.In saying that the guy was totally mad and killed those people,because he was sick in the head.This is the number one reason,why the antis,don't want us to have guns-misuse and abuse by their owners.

Looking back at everything,no one can have a perfect,crime-free society and the Brits must accept this and move on to cathing the criminals.
 
Sterling, I can't remember if it was in this thread, but I've quoted a post from another forum:

On the subject of Ryan..that's a little close to home.I was with him at the Wiltshire Shooting Centre in Devizes when he brought the AK in,he'd just bought it from Westbury guns in Westbury and got his 300 rounds of steel cased steel core commie block ammo from Dave & Andy at WSC.He didn't have any ammo for the M1 carbine as WSC had none in stock.Ironically enough he couldn't get the magazine into the AK (the tilt and turn method) and got quite arsy when we all took the ###### about it.Of all the shooters there he was always the one who bitched when we used to shoot at coke cans and fag packets on the 100 yard indoor rifle range "They aren't approved targets" etc etc and not once in the 2 years I shot at the same club did he EVER rurn up in combats ...

Had all the facts come out about the hungerford incident the new gun laws probably would never have gone through ,instead there would have been some red faces and sideways promotions in the local constabulary.

Just a few interesting facts that youmay wish to look at when people wonder why I'm cynical...

He had NO armour piercing ammo,he simply had M39 steel cored commie block stuff.Steel cores are used to promote tumblin and for reasons of cost.(this I know to be true as I still have some of the empties from that day at the club that I personally fired through his rifle)

The counter signature on his Firearms application was provided by the police officer who lived next door.

He had previously had his shotgun ticket revoked for "reasons of public safety" but it was returned after his mother made a complaint.

He was shot through the right upper jaw hinge just below the temple leaving no signs of powder burns from a gun publicly stated that was taped to his left hand.(Ryan was a lefty)

Again publicly stated he removed the magazine keeping one round in the chamber that he shot himself with(His 92F varient had been modified for target use and had a disconector sear that prevented it firing without the magazine in place)(I used that very pistol at the club 4 days before he used it in hungerford)

The impinge glass from the fatal shot to his head was on the INSIDE of the window on the floor.(If you want to see what I'm getting at fire a shot at a sheet of glass!)

There are a number of others things that don't add up about the entire incident but here isn't the place as I don't want to go off on what may appear to be an anti establishment rant.
There does need to be gun laws to protect the public and society from the most dangerous people IN society however never in legal history has penalising the honest ever had an effect on the criminal other than to make the honest easier targets.

(Si I have 400 or so cartridge outers for the ensign and elite if they are any use to you,free as I have no use for them.They are the black anodised metal ones with steel caps rather than the lovely blaze orange ones made of plastic,I think I also have 200 or so brass valve lifters somewhere as well)

What do you think about this?
 
What do you think about this?

I think that those facts on your post,prove that the government,press and the Thames Valley police force exaggerated, the official facts,misinterpreted them-or did both- and that some were totally untrue-but that idiot-actually used his guns to kill with-thus resulted in more bans for us-unfortunately.:fire: :cuss:

If the GCN wants to ban the bolt-action rifles,then Queenie,wont be impressed with them.Holland and Holland and Rigby-are the official gunmakers for the Royal family-and those two firms make bolt-action rifles.
 
Our Policy
The laws we need in place:

Gun Regulation Authority

In each jurisdiction
To control guns and make gun laws
A Federal authority, to take over within five years and establish uniform gun laws, based on criminologists/specialised lawyers and seconded senior police




Shooters License


A rigorous training and testing program over a six month period - requiring a three part 1-1/2 hour written test set by police, shooters and community groups. License valid for three years only at cost of at least $100, which will cover third party insurance & research development.


Special Hunting Licence


Only declared vermin may be hunted; provided an appropriate hunting course has been taken. Such a course to be conducted by the Gun Control Authority and selected hunters of long experience and high repute. Such a course will require at least three one day trips in the field under supervision. A written examination which will cover hunting ethics, ethnology and hunting malpractice's must be passed.


Guarantors


After passing the shooters license, an applicant must gain support from two guarantors who are of known repute and not involved in shooting activities. Guarantors must re-support if license is extended.


Permit to Purchase


Application to own a gun must give good justification. Self defense not acceptable. Hunting acceptable only with yearly written approval of accredited primary producer or Head Ranger of State parklands. No person shall own more than four long guns.


Semi-Auto Centrefire Rifles, Shotguns & Pump Action Shotguns


To be no longer imported and to be bought back by government over next five years.


Registration


All guns to be registered to a specific person and responsibility for any misuse to be on that person. All guns transfers to have Regulatory Authority approval.


Storage



All guns and ammunition to be stored separately in 5mm thick steel storage safes securely bolted to a wall or floor of house. All guns must be stored and transported with the gun lock operative.
Within 10 years all guns to be removed from urban homes and held at 48 hours notice in selected police stations which are adapted for gun storage purposes. No guns to be kept in gun clubs. Bonafide primary producers outside of urban areas to maintain conditions set in 8.1

Age


No shooting license to be issued below 18 years of age. No gun usage permissible under 17 years of age.


Handguns


Handguns of any nature can only be obtained for shooting at approved handgun ranges. Except for special permission granted by the Gun Regulatory Authority, a person will own a maximum of four handguns. A special handgun license will be required for handgun ownership and will not be granted until the gun control authority has ensured that the applicant has justified reason, is of excellent repute and has passed a strict regime of training and testing over a period of not less than six months. The gun control authority will have full responsibility for maintaining standards and records of handgun ownership.


Security Industry


The Gun Regulatory Authority will be responsible for developing a new set of credentialisation, training and testing procedures for all security guards. These will be cohesive and strict. All existing security services will be revoked and applicants will have to reapply to meet the new set of demands.


Collectors


A collectors license will require that


Only antique guns are collected (defined as manufactured prior to 1920).
The guns are disabled.
Yearly inspection and strong demands on storage facilities.
Members, on leaving bona fide collectors' groups, must give guns to the Gun Control Authority for sale.




Orders Against Gun Owner


If a Domestic Violence Order is taken out against a gun owner, The police must confiscate all guns immediately.

The Australian anti-gun organization.Notice anything familiar,to the UK GCNs policies?
 
The Task Ahead
It is important for us in Gun Control Australia to make a critical assessment of the new gun laws. There is no doubt that major improvements to gun laws have taken place. One only has to note that now there is a national gun registration scheme, gun law uniformity throughout the nation, and much stricter arrangements for the ownership of the most dangerous weapons. But there are serious weaknesses in the new gun laws.

The first echelon of weaknesses were introduced by the police ministers themselves by way of concessions to gun owners.

The concessions to members of the Australian Clay Target Association (ACTA).

This concession allows existing members of ACTA to use semi-auto and pump action shotguns in defiance of the category C prohibition for such weapons. It also allows new ACTA members to use such guns if they can show a physical reason to do so. I believe this is a sop of the worst kind to the claybird fraternity.

The weakening of the requirement for hunters to have written permission to shoot.

By permitting hunters to obtain a 'one-off' letter of approval to shoot, from a landowner, the police ministers have opened old- fashioned free for all hunting procedures. The idea that hunters have to obtain a landowner's written permission whenever they wish to hunt game or feral pests was one of the strongest aspects of the proposed legislation.

The most dangerous guns are hunting guns which are stored in the home, but available for domestic impropriety. The police ministers have done the public a great disservice by allowing lifetime hunting approval to be given.

Occupational Concessions for guns which would otherwise be prohibited.

By making it possible for landowners to use category C weapons if they obtain approval for feral pest reduction, the police ministers have once again let the public down. We believe that self-loading guns are not required for such purposes and this concession is a sop to the farming community. This concession has been magnified by allowing such approvals to take part in joint shoots on other farming properties.

Another complaint which could be made about the new gun laws is the legitimacy which many gun clubs have now accrued.

By declaring that membership of a well-known gun club constitutes a genuine reason to own guns, the police ministers have made an extraordinary concession to the gun lobby. It now means that merely by paying a yearly subscription of perhaps $40 to $50 automatically proves that he or she is entitled to own a gun. This is deplorable. The police ministers have taken the easy out and in the process have ensured that gun clubs will increase in size and have more people and resource strength to combat stricter gun laws. It also implies that membership of a gun entitles a person to a quasi-right to own a gun and places the gun clubs on a new pedestal of legitimacy.

There are more serious weaknesses in the gun laws however than the above three concessions.

The police ministers, the premiers and the federal government were convinced that the new gun laws would stop Australia taking the American path. To the extent that there is now a clearer understandin
g that gun ownership is not a right, and to the extent that the new laws will slow the rate of gun proliferation, the politicians are correct. But the American gun problem largely arises from the high percentage of homes in the US where there is a gun. Nothing was done to seriously improve this situation in Australia. It has been estimated that one in four Australian homes contains at least one gun. Most gun tragedies come about because of this and the new gun laws have done nothing to reduce the number of guns in homes, just as they have achieved very little about improving the storage requirements of guns in homes.

The police ministers balked at the difficulties facing them in regards to the removal of guns from homes. This was and still is a major difficulty for any regime of gun control, because it requires new concepts in gun storage, concepts which have not been adequately debated. Our parliamentarians could have required that all rifles and shotguns be stored in a similar manner to handguns, but they were not prepared to go that far. No matter how good home storage is, however, the guns are still where they are easily accessible to the gun owners and where they can cause the most danger.

By concentrating on controls directed towards high power guns, the parliamentarians were in fact indicating that they were primarily concerned with gun massacres and not the vastly more common individual shootings. Aside from removal of guns from homes, could they have tackled the individual shooter problem? The answer is yes, but they had no theory to support them. All this century the gun lobby has argued that it is the person that should be controlled, not the gun. The fact that the gun lobby does not want very strict controls on the person can for the moment be ignored, but perhaps this is one of the reasons that the parliaments did not choose to make greatly improved training and testing procedures the very core of their new gun laws.

Two months after the massacre, Gun Control Australia started a campaign to show that there was a major weakness in the new gun laws. Put simply, the parliaments failed to realise the core importance of a thorough instruction program for those who wished to obtain a shooters licence. While a person only has to attend an afternoon's instruction and pass a 15 minute multiple choice test, there is no real challenge and hence no real selectivity in the shooters licence program.

One only has to read the six Australian gun magazines to realise that many active shooters have become a different segment of the community to the majority, a segment that has a fatal attraction to guns and to the killing process. Above all, they constitute a segment that is ill-disciplined, poorly read and all too often quite callous.

For these reasons Gun Control Australia has always believed that shooters need at least 40 hours of instruction spread over six months if they are to develop sufficient knowledge about their weapons for public safety. We believe that this failure by our parliaments to face the two fundamentals of prolonged training and through testing on one hand and the removal of guns from homes, on the other, will prove to be a severe weakness in the contribution of the new gun laws to community safety.

I conclude with this warning. Despite the considerable improvement to gun laws throughout Australia there are major weaknesses in regards to the ready availability of most guns. No substantial improvements have been made to the laws controlling handguns and the removal of weapons from private homes has in no way been tackled. Finally, gun law legislation still remains with the six States and two Territories. The nightmare still exists; one of the state's might break ranks with the concept of uniform gun laws and then we'd be back with the oldest and nastiest trouble of all.

Of course, private trading in guns still exists and inadequately protected gun shops are spread throughout the land. In short, the task of proper gun control is far from complete.


http://www.edgar-brothers.co.uk/ORIGINAL_SITE/html/home_files/26925.jpg

So why are they objecting to semi-auto and pump-action shotguns,for clay-shooting?
 
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