Gun free school zones

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Kevin3824

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Hello,
I am in Pennsylvania. I have a License to carry here which my sheriff indicates is only for concealed carry that is fine with me. I have an interesting situation I currently am employed by a University and am not allowed to even have a firearm secured in my car while on campus property. The local Police are not even allowed to have their weapons on them if they are called to campus. The college oficials when asked about being able to carry with a CCW informed me that if they wanted to they would be able ot search my vehical at any time it was on campus property if they so desired.

I have rented a place closer to my work which is physically located near a high school and I know my carry license indicates I cannot carry on school grounds as one of the stipulations.

My question is a gun free school zone defined as on the actual property or within a certain distance of the school property? I am concerned about the proximity I am to the high school where I rented to be closer to the college for work.
 
if they wanted to they would be able ot search my vehical at any time it was on campus property if they so desired.
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Nope. Not going to happen. Unless you are LE with a search warrant you are not searching nor entering my vehicle.

Furthermore, university policy does not trump police policy nor state law authorizing officers to carry guns on campus. Their duty as police officers trumps any stupid law the university has. I'd love for their to be an active shooter there and send the spineless administrator towards him to disarm him while being unarmed himself.

The federal school zone is distance to the school. Having a MI CPL exempts me from this.

Sorry I can't be more help than that.
 
My question is a gun free school zone defined as on the actual property or within a certain distance of the school property? I am concerned about the proximity I am to the high school where I rented to be closer to the college for work.
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The "Gun Free School Zone" is not what you need to be reading up on. What is defined as "premises" in your state is what you need to read up on. Also, is your car considered an extension of your home in your state?

In Texas, the state only recognizes school buildings as premises. Your state may differ.
 
At one time there was a law that said you could not have a gun within 1000' of a school. I think this is what you are thinking about. That law was never enforced and was quickly dropped because it is impossible to enforce because people live and drive within 1000' of many schools.

Each state is different but I teach in Georgia and it is perfectly legal for parents who are bringing their children to school to have guns in their vehicle as long as they just drop them off and do not park and come inside the building.
 
JMR40 is correct on thinking the 1000' rule is what I had on my mind. The thing is the apt I rented is within the 1000'. I am not sure if I should just try to find a new place to move into or not because of that.

As far as the question of who informed me of the local police not being allowed to have guns on the property that was told to me by my supervisors and upper administration at the university. It seems the local police chief is also a student there and does not carry while on school grounds. The university has it own public safety dept and all but two of those on it are Police officers in other jurisdictions none of them are allowed to carry on campus either.

I have seen instances where one of the students was a NY State Trooper and was physically jumped by the public safety dept then questioned prior to being escorted off the property for having a gun in their gym locker.
 
At one time there was a law that said you could not have a gun within 1000' of a school. I think this is what you are thinking about. That law was never enforced and was quickly dropped because it is impossible to enforce because people live and drive within 1000' of many schools.
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I'd say that is an inaccurate description of events.
The federal law prohibiting possession of a firearm w/in 1000' of schools was enforced. It went to court, and made it to the US supreme court, where it was found unconstitutional due to its tenuous connection to interstate commmerce. (U.S. v. Lopez, 1995)


The law was re-passed by congress with a new 'findings' section that explicitly noted the connection of schoolyard carry with interstate commerce. That version has not been tested in front of the USSC as far as I know.

The law does provide exceptions for folks with permits issued by their states and folks who possess firearms on private property w/in the 1000' boundary.

Here's the federal law (USC 18 922(q))

(q)
(1) The Congress finds and declares that—
(A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a pervasive, nationwide problem;
(B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
(C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools, as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the Judiciary [3] the House of Representatives and the Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
(D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
(E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children to school for the same reason;
(F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
(G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the United States;
(H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves—even States, localities, and school systems that have made strong efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
(I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation’s schools by enactment of this subsection.
(2)
(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license;
(iii) that is—
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
(iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school in the school zone;
(v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into between a school in the school zone and the individual or an employer of the individual;
(vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official capacity; or
(vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school premises is authorized by school authorities.
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Definitions of school zone and school are provided in USC 18 921

(25) The term “school zone” means—
(A) in, or on the grounds of, a public, parochial or private school; or
(B) within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a public, parochial or private school.
(26) The term “school” means a school which provides elementary or secondary education, as determined under State law.
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That is a great response just what I needed I think. So from how I read that because I have a full license to carry in this state. I am not breaking the law by residing in private property that is within 1000' of school property.

Nor would I be breaking any federal laws if I was to have my weapon unloaded and secured in a safe in my car parked on campus while I was in the school at work. I could simply drive a few block away at night when I leave then stop to carry on my person again off campus.

Am I correct in thinking that way? I do realize I will need to check out the state laws as well but it seems to me I am thinking correctly on this one now.
 
Pa Law

Pa law states the following about school carry:

Title 18 § 912 Possession of weapon on school property.

(a) Definition.Notwithstanding the definition of "weapon" in section 907 (relating to possessing instruments of crime), "weapon" for purposes of this section shall include but not be limited to any knife, cutting instrument, cutting tool, nunchuck stick, firearm, shotgun, rifle and any other tool, instrument or implement capable of inflicting serious bodily injury.

(b) Offense defined.A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he possesses a weapon in the buildings of, on the grounds of, or in any conveyance providing transportation to or from any elementary or secondary publiclyfunded educational institution, any elementary or secondary private
school licensed by the Department of Education or any elementary or secondary parochial school.

(c) Defense.It shall be a defense that the weapon is possessed and used in conjunction with a lawful supervised school activity or course or is possessed for other lawful purpose.
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It is prohibited on any grounds, in the building or even the drives to and from... but if caught, it is a defense that you had the weapon for "other lawful purposes" Self defense is a lawful purpose. This has not been tested in court as far as I know.

No mention of the 1000' setback in PA law.
 
I want there to be school-free gun zones.

If nobody has noticed, schools are a magnet for property crime. I want schools cleaned out of my neighborhood.
 
Wow. That means that even in a state that allows long guns to be in your vehicle uncased, or in unlocked cases, you are breaking federal law by having them there if you drive within 1000' of a school? That eliminates nearly all of most urban areas. This amounts to a defacto federal law that all guns in vehicles must be locked up.

Consider too that most states only license carry of "pistols". I know that is the case in Washington State (where I reside). I've driven around with rifles in my back seat in simple soft cases in Arizona, Iowa, and Washington. This was legal according to the laws of all three states. Now, I'm hearing that in all likelihood I was violating federal law. I don't think this is mentioned in the NRA sheet on federal/state gun laws.

Am I reading this wrong, or have I been that misinformed all this time?

I guess this might go to show one reason that NEVER consenting to a search of your vehicle is a good idea. I've always been careful to study and follow all applicable laws, but I missed one, was committing a crime, and never even knew it. :what:
 
I may be remembering incorrectly, but in Oregon, I believe CCP holders are allowed to carry on school grounds, however, cops will still arrest you for it. :rolleyes:

I live inside a school zone and have plenty of weapons. There is no way in hell they could POSSIBLY say that's illegal.
 
Well, you would fall under the "private property" exception.

Presumably, all the public property (ie, roads) immediately bordering your private property IS in the school zone, and is subject to the regulation. This means that even if your state does not require your long guns be placed in locked cases, the feds do. You would thus be obligated to lock them up when placing them in your vehicle and taking them anywhere, as you pass through a school zone on the way out of your property.

Am I totally off base here?
 
Read the PA law again. There's nothing in it that prohibits the carrying or possession of weapons on college campuses. The law specifically refers to "elementary or secondary" schools, not college campuses.
 
I was not trying to stir the pot here I was only asking to be sure I was not breaking the law as I do not want to give them a reason to take away my permit at all. I think that any infraction would risk that.

So now it is legal for me to own them and carry them but not on public property such as roadways within school zones like where I live.

What am I supposed to do lock it up and drive out of the zone pull over load the weapon and holster it to carry it once I am out of the zone? Personally I think that will cause more public alarm then having it concealed on my person within the car.

I am just getting started on my collection and my love for guns and shooting I don't ever want to have this ability taken away.

From what I see we have many of the elementary Middle and high schools with gun toting LEO in them I am not sure what makes them above federal law but it does happen all the time here.

In the case of the University I think it is more a matter of their rules they are trying to enforce upon me by trying to take away my rights because I am an employee of theirs. I think that even if someone came in there like at VT they would still keep their gun free school zone after all the funerals. That is how anti gun they are there.

Another thing that frightens me is the fact that terrorists have threatened to attack our universities in the past and the one I work at holds a Nuclear Regulatory License as well. I would think that would open their eyes a bit but it has not as of yet.
 
So now it is legal for me to own them and carry them but not on public property such as roadways within school zones like where I live.

What am I supposed to do lock it up and drive out of the zone pull over load the weapon and holster it to carry it once I am out of the zone? Personally I think that will cause more public alarm then having it concealed on my person within the car.
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No Kevin,your PA LTCF,allows you to carry within the 1000 foot zone.
Now if your permit was from out state,say New Hampshire the untested Congressional re-instatement on the Commerce Clause after the Supremes finding in USA vs Lopez could come into play.The BATFE agrees with the Congressional re-instatement.
For this reason I,as a Florida resident have a NH and PA permit as I visit these 2 states every year.
You are good to go.I run past the front door of an a elementary school every day carrying.I just stay on the public sidewalk.

See musher's post:

B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm—
(i) on private property not part of school grounds;
(ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do so by the State in which the school zone is located or a political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license
 
Thanks Guys I realize this is definitely the right place to ask as most of you have been living this far longer then I have as I am new to my permit still.

The other website mentioned I have already been reading pretty often as well.
 
The federal law is a potential danger to those who don't need a license to carry and do so, unless they carry non-"firearm" (under federal law) antiques. It needs to be eliminated.
 
Does anyone know for sure how this affects long guns stored in a vehicle? Can I drive to the shooting range if I have a rifle in my back seat, not in a locked case? What about in the trunk?

Does a concealed carry permit apply to long guns in the vehicle, assuming its a pistol only permit?
 
I to am a University employee.

Allowing your employer to search your vehicle while on their property may very well be a condition of your employment.

Universities have the right to control conduct/activities of employees and students under penalty of dismissal. Even if they are LEO's.

We have a couple Universities here in MI. that do to their status as "Constitutional Entity" do not even have to comply with the preemption laws of the state.

Keep in mind information gathered online is very general and you need to check the validity of it in your locality.
 
Does anyone know for sure how this affects long guns stored in a vehicle? Can I drive to the shooting range if I have a rifle in my back seat, not in a locked case? What about in the trunk?

Does a concealed carry permit apply to long guns in the vehicle, assuming its a pistol only permit?
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bd,for Washington State:

Rifles and shotguns must be unloaded and secured in gun racks or gun cases.The cases need not be locked.
In the trunk is also fine as per these instructions.
Even with a carry permit, you must unload your long guns.
BTW,long guns as well as handguns are considered loaded only if the chamber of the firearm is loaded OR a loaded magazine is attached to the firearm in WA.
One may have a loaded magazine nearby and still be lawful.
 
I may be remembering incorrectly, but in Oregon, I believe CCP holders are allowed to carry on school grounds, however, cops will still arrest you for it.
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You are correct.Carrying a handgun on school or university property in OR, if you have an OR CHL, is 100% legal.If you are a student, or an employee, you can be fired if they find out, but you have still broken no law.As for wether or not you would get arrested anyways, I couldnt say.I have carried into my daughters school many times, and walked right past, as greted, the school cop, and had no issues, but for all I know, he didnt see it (if thats the case, he isnt a very observant cop, as I make VERY little effort to conceal in OR.:D)
I'm sure it would depend on the city you are in, and the individual cop(s) that are involved.
 
LE cant carry guns on the campus :confused: ... I think our campus PD is more armed with toys than most of the surrounding little towns outside of our city. But maybe its a southern thing... :rolleyes:
 
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