Gun Owners on the "Left" of center ...

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Sometimes I get a little tired of the rightward political rhetoric at gun shows and other gun owner functions.

Are there any organizations out there that represent gun owners from moderate or even "liberal" (a meaningless term if you ask me) political bent.

I find organizations like the Pink Pistols interesting because they represent a group that is typically underrepresented on the right end of the spectrum (homosexuals). I'm also interested in learning more about organizations for minority or women gun owners. I am a straight white male BTW. I am just the kind of person who feels a little better when I meet up with black folks at the gun show in the midst of the vast sea of Caucasians like me.

I am not even sure you are a real person with those conflicting comments/beliefs.

Most minority groups are liberal having nothing to do with guns. Regardless for those who are socially liberal but believe in the 2nd Amendment, you need to decide what is more important to you. When you vote for other liberals and/or Democrats(almost the same thing now days), you increase the chance that liberal social issues will be pushed forward at the expense of your 2nd Amendment rights.
Then again most people I know who believe in affirmative action, illegal immigration, prisoner rights, etc. are against private gun ownership as well. They believe in a nanny state where one must trust government for everything from cradle to grave. So why would anyone need a gun since the governments police force is there to protect you.
 
I don't agree that such terms as "Left" or "Right" or liberal or conservative are meaningless. However, it sometimes depends upon the subject. I do know people who are liberal or on the left on social issues, but own guns. They are still liberal to me.
In general I consider that Democrats are liberal. I don't have any liberal friends, and don't want any.

Regards,
Jerry
 
Pink Pistols was an interesting idea, but the gay rights organizations are very firmly wedded to the leftern spectrum of organized Democratic politics. That goes back for several generations and won't change overnight. There are certainly plenty of non-hetero people who support the RKBA, but those who do are more likely to be rural, low-profile or otherwise not associated with the urban based gay rights groups.

For many people on the left, a firearm is not a tool but a *symbol.* It is token identifying support for a range of right wing causes. And, having little or no first hand experience, it's difficult for them to overcome this prejudice. The fact that gay people are more likely to be targeted for violence is worth pointing out, but it won't change the established dogma on the gay rights/rainbow coalition side. It takes a long time to shift such attitudes.

In fairness, the same thing applies to many on the right, who assume if you are a gun owner that you agree with them about XYZ cause. I've met a few guys, particularly older ones, who decide it's safe for them to rant to me about the evil of the Jews because I'm a fellow gun nut. It's amusing. But that seems to be most prevalent in areas of the world where gun owners are a small minority linked to conservative dogmas. Up here, there tends to be much wider ownership and less of a clear political association. To my mind, that's precisely the model we should be moving towards as a nation. Where gun rights are a given, not an issue.

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" --Oscar Wilde.
 
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A coworker here who I seldom see votes Democrat, although she grew up in a small town in Desoto County (near Memphis) and bought a Yugo SKS many years ago.

She told me that her SKS is not for sale.
 
Gun control legislation always comes from the political left. That might have something to do with it.
Not in most countries, and it's a mixed bag even in this country. Most U.S. gun control in the past 20 years has come from the communitarian movement ("responsibilities are more important than rights"), who generally plot out as center-left to center-right. What Dianne Feinstein, Charles Schumer, Bill Clinton, Paul Helmke, William J. Bennett, and Alberto Gonzales all have in common is their belief that "law and order" supersedes individual rights, not their views on social issues.

The RKBA is not a "conservative" issue; it is a human rights issue.

Regardless for those who are socially liberal but believe in the 2nd Amendment, you need to decide what is more important to you.
Why? Why can't the Bill of Rights be respected in its entirety?
 
Pink Pistols was an interesting idea, but the gay rights organizations are very firmly wedded to the leftern spectrum of organized Democratic politics. That goes back for several generations and won't change overnight. There are certainly plenty of non-hetero people who support the RKBA, but those who do are more likely to be rural, low-profile or otherwise not associated with the urban based gay rights groups.

For many people on the left, a firearm is not a tool but a *symbol.* It is token identifying support for a range of right wing causes. And, having little or no first hand experience, it's difficult for them to overcome this prejudice. The fact that gay people are more likely to be targeted for violence is worth pointing out, but it won't change the established dogma on the gay rights/rainbow coalition side. It takes a long time to shift such attitudes.

In fairness, the same thing applies to many on the right, who assume if you are a gun owner that you agree with them about XYZ cause. I've met a few guys, particularly older ones, who decide it's safe for them to rant to me about the evil of the Jews because I'm a fellow gun nut. It's amusing. But that seems to be most prevalent in areas of the world where gun owners are a small minority linked to conservative dogmas. Up here, there tends to be much wider ownership and less of a clear political association. To my mind, that's precisely the model we should be moving towards as a nation. Where gun rights are a given, not an issue.

"I do not know what the Queensberry rules are, but the Wilde rules are to shoot on sight!" --Oscar Wilde.

In 2009, there were only 1,223 hate crimes reported for homosexuality. In contrast a DOJ report shows that when the intimate partner is the same sex as the victim, between 93 and 99 an average of 5k violent victimization's occurred every year.
 
People think of politics as a two demensional left/right line.
It is not. Ronald Reagan said it best:

"You and I are told we must choose between a left or right, but I suggest there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down. Up to man's age-old dream -- the maximum of individual freedom consistent with order -- or down to the ant heap of totalitarianism. Regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would sacrifice freedom for security have embarked on this downward path. Plutarch warned, "The real destroyer of the liberties of the people is he who spreads among them bounties, donations and benefits."

Seriously, take a look at the World’s smallest political quiz and find out where you stand on the political spectrum:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz
 
I have observed that all of my siblings all lean to the left politically. They all have zero interest in owning firearms even though we all grew up around firearms.
My best friend from high school is a Democrat and has no interest in firearms. My father in law is a Democrat and does not own a firearm even though he grew up with guns.
I think I see a pattern there.
 
In contrast a DOJ report shows that when the intimate partner is the same sex as the victim, between 93 and 99 an average of 5k violent victimization's occurred every year.

Not sure what your point is.
 
Let’s take a look at the World’s smallest political quiz. I think we will find many gun enthusiasts are closer to libertarian than conservative except when it comes to drug and sex issues.

The question comes down to what types of liberty each person is for or against on an individual basis (and for widely varying reasons), which means that one's position on the political spectrum is of rather limited value for deriving any meaningful statistics--it may be interesting, but it's not all that useful.

Big government liberals are closer to being statists.

These are basically who I label (yes, labels are loaded) "socialists" and often identify as general opponents to our cause, although truth be told statism can apply equally to the "right" side of the political spectrum, and the latter do not necessarily support our Second Amendment rights, either. And then there are ideologies such as Fascism, which many on the "left" characterize as being on the extreme "right," although in reality it picks & chooses from both sides. Probably the safest thing we can say is that statists of all types are generally against the private ownership of guns...then again, you never know when one will come along and impose mandatory gun ownership. ;)

See where you stand on the political spectrum:

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz

The quiz pegged me at the upper-right corner of the centrist square, and I'd say that's pretty accurate. What's funny, however, is that many "liberals" I've argued with on political grounds (on other forums) have labeled me as an unreasonable "right-wing nutjob" just because I happen to have a different set of freedoms that I hold most dear. Furthermore, some make the strange and incorrect assumption that all "conservatives" (just as much a misnomer as "liberals" but anyway) are by definition statists, and therefore I'm a Fascist. :rolleyes: The reason that I mention this is that some of the same may be going on here in this forum except in the opposite direction. :scrutiny:

The RKBA is not a "conservative" issue; it is a human rights issue.

That's a great observation, and I might add--speaking only for myself here--that one of the fundamental tenets of the United States is individual human rights and freedoms, the most endangered of which were spelled out in the Bill Of Rights for good measure. These are, in my view, American values, not "liberal" or "conservative" values. Not to exclude those who live in other countries, as I also consider the RKBA essential to the natural right of self-defense for everybody, but in a political and cultural sense I think it is accurate to say that the RKBA is part of this country's core.

Why? Why can't the Bill of Rights be respected in its entirety?

The country has been fighting to live up to its own creed for centuries now, and the fight continues today, fortunately with the Constitution still mostly reflecting its original intent (and changed in some ways to better represent it). During the civil rights era, I might have been branded a "liberal" or "progressive," while at present many would call me a "conservative," but I view myself as always favoring progress toward the kind of country that the Constitution says it is, which includes the individual RKBA. In my opinion, giving such broad power to the federal government over state and local governments is not a form of statism or authoritarianism when it involves preserving our individual rights.
 
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left/right/conservative/liberal/progressive/socialist/communist/radical ... blah blah blah! The people in charge don't care what you label them, just as long as THEY remain in charge and solidify that circumstance more and more each day!

I'm 60 years old and over the last 10 or so years, I've come to believe there there are "Constitutionalists" and "everyone else". And we Constitutionalists are undoubtably in the minority. We, as a people, have moved so far away from God and what, once upon a time, made this country great that I fear we can never regain what it was that made America exceptional.
 
Owen Sparks wrote:
Gun control legislation always comes from the political left. That might have something to do with it.


Hmmm....

The Mulford Act in California.

Peter King and his "gun free politician zones".

Bush the Second's pledge to re-sign the AWB....

Just three off the top of my head.
 
Gun control legislation always comes from the political left.

Not repealing any of that legislation, or even pretending they really want to, is the hallmark of the right. It isn't donkeys= anti-gun and elephants= pro-gun. It's donkeys= actively anti-gun and elephants= passively anti-gun.
 
I have to have a label now? Aren't we attempting to come across as politically correct? Well I do believe each and every person who commented on this has some type of dislike of other views, race, sexual orientation that doesn't agree with theirs. I don't think any posts are completely honest. Well people I am a product of my youth, experiences, religion and many factors and I DO dislike some movements, races, religions and many others simply because I have lived my life the way I have. To each his own the farmer said as he kissed his pig and I'll leave it there. My personal opinion formed by living past 65+.
 
Just three off the top of my head.

There are a lot more than that, going back at least as far as the Jim Crow anti-CCW laws passed by conservative Democrats after the failure of reconstruction. It's probably safer to say that gun control laws always comes from those who have power and do not want to share it. That desire knows no political boundary. You can see it on display just about any day of the week in the newspapers. These days you'll see it in Syria or Libya. Tomorrow it will be somewhere else. Power, at root, is about eliminating threats to itself.
 
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Demipublicans and republicrats are one big group. There is no two party system in this country. They work together to strip us of our rights as quickly and quietly as they can. They accomplish this using divide and conquor, an age old strategy. To me, there are people who respect our rights and those who don't.
I don't care if you're white, black, brown, pink, or urine colored, if you respect my rights, you're one of us.
 
Liberation said:
They were forced to do what? Make up lies about the need for gays to own guns to protect themselves against gay bashers?

The NRA was not interested and pushing the whole you need a gun because you are gay.

Just so I'm clear - are you saying that people haven't in the past gone around looking to beat up, injure, or in some cases murder homosexuals for the simple reason that they're homosexual?

That would no doubt be news to Tom Palmer, one of the original plaintiffs in what became the Heller v. District of Columbia decision.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/20/AR2010022003376_pf.html

Washington Post said:
It was 1982, dusk on a summer night near San Jose, when a band of thugs yelled homophobic slurs at Palmer and a colleague....

The threats were vivid and believable: "We're going to kill you. They'll never find your body."

Palmer told his colleague to run. The thugs chased Palmer, who stopped under a streetlight and pulled out his gun.

"I did not say anything witty or clever," he recalls. "In the movies, they say something very clever. I just said, 'If you come closer, I will kill you.' Very blunt. And they stopped."

He is convinced that if he hadn't had a gun he would be dead. Even though the legal weapon was not fired, "it did the job it was intended to do. It evened up the odds from a gang of young men who thought it would be really fun to beat to death two guys walking down the street."

It is a foolish person who shuns allies in a fight for basic liberties because he disagrees with their lifestyle choices.
 
Just a reminder, let's try to avoid straying into broader "culture war" issues here. Regardless of which side of those issues you may find yourself on (and believe me, THR members are found on both sides of those issues), those discussions are off topic here.

A few posts upthread have veered into personal attacks or have brought in religious/moral issues without any gun content whatsoever, and have been deleted as a result. Let's keep this thread civil and on point, please.
 
I'm a libertarian on social issues, including guns.

I'm a New Deal Democrat on economic policy, with a bit of Teddy Roosevelt progressivism mixed in.

And I'm a Wilsonian interventionist on foreign policy, provided the interventions are brief and effective.

Where does that put me in terms of the current party alignment? Generally more Democrat than Republican, one might think, but looking back at my voting record since 1968, only one thing stands out -- I always vote against the party in power, because even if I originally voted for them, they always fail to live up to their promises and/or to my ideals. That's the way it's going to be this time too.
 
Just so I'm clear - are you saying that people haven't in the past gone around looking to beat up, injure, or in some cases murder homosexuals for the simple reason that they're homosexual?

That would no doubt be news to Tom Palmer, one of the original plaintiffs in what became the Heller v. District of Columbia decision.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/20/AR2010022003376_pf.html



It is a foolish person who shuns allies in a fight for basic liberties because he disagrees with their lifestyle choices.

As I already pointed out and you would know if you read the whole damn thread is that I never DENIED it happens, I said it was exaggerated and pointed out that a gay man or woman is more likely to be a victim of violence from their partner.

I also have to point out: Santa Clara is a no issue county.
 
You mean you get tired of telling them how wrong they are about everything ;) ?

Most of the people I shoot with are right wingers. I indulge them :)

I am vehemently opposed to requiring orthodoxy from people, I think it is morally wrong and repugnant to the utmost, and indicative of the very worst in human beings.

I shoot with people who like to shoot, smoke cigars with people who like cigars, etc etc.

Politics is important, especially my side winning, and I have a keen and intense interest in it, but it's far from the be-all and the end-all of life.

Political conflicts should only ever be fought in the ballot box.

I almost didn't give money to the NRA this year because they had that awful glen beck at their shindig, but then I remembered that I support the NRA for what they do about guns.
 
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