Gun Registry in Colorado

[xfyrfiter]

When the ffl dealer calls the 4473 in, they are asked if it is a pistol or long gun, no serial number is given, or asked for, at the NICS end of the call.

 

[CSC_Saint]

SO I understand that an FFL is required to hold transfer documentation for so long, however, as my wife does not have a CCW permit, a pistol purchase is not information that an officer making a trafiic stop should have ready and easy access to. I can understand if an officer is serving a warrant, but pulling somebody over and having that information handy is not right. What's raising flags about this is the officer's demeanor in regards to this topic. He specifically stated "Yeah, the computer even tells me that you bought a pistol.... nevermind" and told my wife to just sign the ticket. Which tells me that this is information that he should not have given. So either information that law enforcement is forbidden to have is in those hands, or he was fishing, but that's a shady way of fishing if you ask me. And after knowing that she had a previous pistol purchase, he didn't ask if there was a gun in the car, which there was. Shady all around.

 

[CSC_Saint]

And btw, this was in Colorado Springs, iin El Paso county, with the highest concentration of CCW permits in Colorado. So officers should be well versed on how to handle folks with guns and/or permits.

 

[MasterSergeantA]

(LOL) You have to be kidding, of course there is, what do you think the 4473 is for??

It is required to be kept 10 years by the FFL. Each manufacturer is required to log to what distributor their guns are shipped to and each distributor must keep records of which store it was sold to. AND each store MUST keep a record of whom it was sold to.

I would not be supprised to find out that the NICS check keeps a record of the serial number and your social security number as well. I don't have a problem with that, it's been going on for years now.

The real problem is that criminals do not go through a NICS check when they purchase guns on the street illegally. I also believe there is a national registry of stolen guns as well.

Let's get real folks, this is nothing new.
Jim

Actually, the NICS check doesn't include the serial number of the firearm being purchased. And you are NOT required to provide a social security number (I never do), nor is your address a part of the check, should anyone wonder. That is federal law; anything kept at the state level is a function of the state people. We don't have that issue here in Arizona.

The 4473 should be the only federal record of a retail purchase of any firearm (except those subject to the NFA) and they are retained by the FFL holder for a period of 20 years, unless the license is relinquished, at which time they and the 'bound book' are surrendered to the ATF. If a firearm needs to be traced..due to its being involved in a crime, for instance...the 4473 can be copied by ATF investigators for use in the investigation. I always hearken back to the scene in "Red Dawn" (the original, not the remake) where the Russian officer tells his people to go to all the gun shops and collect the 4473s to identify gun owners in town.

What causes me a certain amount of concern is the recent use of computer-based a 4473 by the AAFES system and Wal-Mart (there may be more) after years of the ATF fighting that. Maybe someone finally figured out that computer data is easier to retireve? The forms don't seem to go anywhere, but I am suspicious by nature and training.

 

[Billll]

I know that the police computers have an up to date record of my insurance purchases as my POI is usually well out of date but never a problem. I had no idea that the data base might include recent gun purchases.

What next? My browser history?http://images.thehighroad.org/smilies/eek.gif

 

[chipcom]

I believe that every law enforcement officer has the right to know when they stop a car if thier life is in danger of being shot.

...and we citizens have a right to travel without fear of being harassed or worse by LEOs because they feel that our purchase of a firearm at some point in the past puts them at risk. Being an LEO does not grant one more rights to safety than anyone else in the general population. This notion that they do is just another reason why today we live in a society that looks more like a police state than a free state.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

Okay, the new Sheriff didn't make the meeting but the one that was term limited out two years ago after serving 12 years was there. I asked him whether the background check records (I believe Colorado does their own) were available to law enforcement and he didn't think they were. He is still active with the state department of liquor enforcement so he is privy to most law enforcement practices, and he is a straight shooter, which is why he was elected Sheriff for 12 years...... So I would guess the cop was fishing.....

 

[huntsman]

unless the license is relinquished, at which time they and the 'bound book' are surrendered to the ATF.

and they're building a database with those files.

 

[Texshooter]

No actually I don't. I believe that every law enforcement officer has the right to know when they stop a car if thier life is in danger of being shot. When they answer a domestic disturbance call, if the home owner is armed. When they pull you over for drinking and driving that you are not armed. When you are having a fight with your neighbor that you are not going into your house to get a gun. That when they respond to a 911 call that they will not be shot by the homeowner mistakenly.

So no I have no problem with them knowing I am one of the good guys and not a bad guy carring a gun just to look tough.

I have been registered with the Illinois State Police as a firearms owner for over 30 years, so what's YOUR point, you think they don't know??

Jim

That, in no way, would tell them if you were a "good" or "bad" guy. Neither is relevant to the world in the moment.

When one becomes a Police they best johnny be aware that their life is in danger as part of the job.

Does not give them the right to have my firearm serial numbers, my social security numbers or anything else of that nature.

Until I have a guarantee from the gov't that I will be free from harm against the wolves, then they can treat me like a free citizen and with respect.

 

[CSC_Saint]

Steel Rider, thanks for putting in the leg work and asking your sherriff about it. I'll chalk it up to fishing, but if it happens again, can't really call it fishing after that. Odd how the officer said it, and his demeanor after suggested he wasn't supposed to say what he did.

 

[we are not amused]

No actually I don't. I believe that every law enforcement officer has the right to know when they stop a car if thier life is in danger of being shot. When they answer a domestic disturbance call, if the home owner is armed. When they pull you over for drinking and driving that you are not armed. When you are having a fight with your neighbor that you are not going into your house to get a gun. That when they respond to a 911 call that they will not be shot by the homeowner mistakenly.

So no I have no problem with them knowing I am one of the good guys and not a bad guy carring a gun just to look tough.

I have been registered with the Illinois State Police as a firearms owner for over 30 years, so what's YOUR point, you think they don't know??

Jim

With the exception of fascist controlled states like Illinois, NO THEY AREN'T SUPPOSED TO KNOW!

And your lack of concern about "Law enforcement" not following the law says a lot about you.
Do you really think the police know the name of every Illegal gun owner, and who is more likely to use the weapon in an illegal manner, a legal purchaser or an illegal one?

Fortunately not every one shares your lack of concern.

I am unfamiliar with Colorado law on what information is reported to the local police agencies regarding gun purchases, but the idea that State police agencies are keeping illegal records is not new.www.defensivecarry.com/forum/second-amendment-gun-legislation-discussion/60507-delaware-state-police-caught-illegal-gun-registry.html
I believe they blamed it ultimately on an "accidental" electronic file that was not purged as required, but I notice that the police were well aware of the file and were using it, despite the fact it was "accidently" forgotten.

We need to hold our law enforcement to the highest levels, if they are to have our trust. Sadly in many cases, they fail to live up to that standard.

 

[Billll]

I mentioned this on a newsletter I'm on and got ythis back:

re the statement that the LEO knew a pistol purchase had been made... aside from being illegal, it would require a massive database (run by? funded by?)... good question for Tues mtg if it can be verified... where did the stop take place and by what office (local police/state trooper/sheriff)?...

I filled him in on the details.

 

[CSC_Saint]

It was a CSPD(Springs) officer, and on palmer park and sawyer.

 

[C.F. Plinker]

From the Colorado Bureau of Investigation weblite.

CBI-IC-4
Destruction of Records
Information pertaining to an approved individual which is collected or created
pursuant to a background check for a firearm transfer shall be destroyed within 24 hours
of the issuance of the approval consistent with federal law. The Bureau shall maintain
the transaction number, the date and time of its issuance, and the FFL to whom it was
relayed. Nothing in this rule shall be interpreted so as to prohibit the updating of criminal
history records to accurately reflect dispositions.

 

[Averageman]

Last year when I was working at Ft Carson there was a guy dancing in a Marijuana Leaf Suit 5 minutes from the front gate of Ft.Carson.
Now if you want personal freedom to consume, then how can you disagree with personal freedom under the 2nd ammendment?
It's probobly more "Hip" to go after the gunowners than the marijuana growers at this point in Colorado.
The irony is freedom's protected are equal, but some are just more "hip" than opthers to prosecute right now.