GUNFIRE AT WAFFLE HOUSE AFTER WHITES, HISPANICS ARGUE OVER CITIZENSHIP

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In this case, the racist jerkoffs appear to be the poor Hispanics themselves. They are the ones who resorted to lethal force to get their "message" across.

I wasnt there... but I am willing to put on money on the white patrons being the ones who caused the altercation in the first place. Reading the second article about this incident sounds almost exactly like my experience at Waffle House in Lousiana.. I felt like I had been transported back in time.

I'm not defending these people for shooting at someone, but I can honestly see how such a situation would come about. People in the South really need to work on a word I like to call "tolerance". If you see a Mexican or Black guy with a white girl.. just let it go. It's not your place to try and start a fight because you're stuck in the 19th century.
 
Sure, let's figure out a way to integrate 100 million--or is it really 200 million people?--into our society. How are we supposed to do that when most Americans THEMSELVES don't even understand any more--thanks to the multiculturalists--what the essential principles of America are all about?

Where are you getting this 100-200 million number?
What exactly is wrong with having a different culture?
Where is it written that Americans all have to be the same?
 
Biker,

Nothing wrong with stating the obvious...Mexicans have more animal cruelty with regards to sports that are acceptable in their country and not ours.... that is obvious. However, I just wanted to point out that this by no way means that mexicans overall are more cruel to animals than anyone here.

I'm just trying to keep this a bit balanced....is the situation we're in now bad? Yes. Are illegals here a problem? Of course. What's the solution? Don't know, but grouping all Mexicans together and taking stereotypes isn't. Now, from my name, you can guess that I'm from a hispanic background. Well, I was born in Texas and raised in Virginia and am an American first and foremost. I don't even speak Spanish...but some of these comments in this thread have insulted me. This thread is mostly rational and agreeable to...but then one or two racist remarks will kill the good points and it's easier to dismiss the thread totally.

Just my opinions.
 
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I wasnt there... but I am willing to put on money on the white patrons being the ones who caused the altercation in the first place.

Seriously man, this comment is just as racist and bigoted as you are accusing others of being. There's no evidence for this. There's absolutely no reason for you to suspect this at all, given the actual evidence at hand. Yet you are "willing to put on money" on it.

At least be consistent in your beliefs, eh?
 
Well the story says right here:

According to a police report, the shooting suspect was seated at a table with another Hispanic man and two white women. Whites at two other tables made comments “in reference to the suspect being Hispanic,” Benson said.
 
I wasnt there... but I am willing to put on money on the white patrons being the ones who caused the altercation in the first place. Reading the second article about this incident sounds almost exactly like my experience at Waffle House in Lousiana.. I felt like I had been transported back in time

So, you have no factual support, but your going to make racially biased statements regardless? Gee, that's awfully racist of you. And I believe that deadly force is a wholly inappropriate response to verbal provocation. In fact, if your theory is true, it provides further support that these aren't individuals we want living among us, since they are incapable of responding in a rational way, but simply try to murder those who disagree with them.

As for racism, some of the worst I've ever heard or experienced came from non-whites. In fact, I've specifically seen a black woman say she didn't want Hispanics in her neighborhood because "those people" caused crime and ruined neighborhoods. She lived in Los Angeles. Refresh my recollection, but that is in California, correct? Racism exists everywhere. If you haven't seen it in your beloved home state, you haven't been looking.
 
So, you have no factual support, but your going to make racially biased statements regardless

You guys really should read before you post.

According to a police report, the shooting suspect was seated at a table with another Hispanic man and two white women. Whites at two other tables made comments “in reference to the suspect being Hispanic,” Benson said

“The suspect stood up to leave, and the victim, who was seated at one of the tables, saw a gun in his waistband,” she said. “He followed the suspect outside the building, and that’s when the suspect shot toward the victim and into the building

http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060516/NEWS01/60515054/1010

Interesting that the suspect was leaving and the victim followed him out. Why would the victim follow the guy out? For all we know the "victim" here could have escalated the situation to where the "suspect" felt the need to use deadly force. Who knows.. the cops will only have word of the "victim" .. It's already determined that he's not a fan of Hispanic peoples, so I wouldnt put much trust in what he says.

EDIT: Also, I never said racism didnt exist in CA. From my personal experience though, racism is much more overt and accepted in the South. In CA, no one would try talking crap to a Mexican for dating a white girl. That's just ridiculous.
 
I figured that the first "hot" round fired in the "Immigration" WAR would be fired by a Coyote' at a Border Patrol Agent.

Anyhow, this was bound to happen.

The first rounds fired in this semi-hot war were fired by Mexican Army units attempting to interdict Border Patrol operations. The Mexican Army units were on American soil and pursued Border Patrol agents for several miles, using automatic weapons.

This is something the anti-American pro-illegals groups don't want you thinking about. Their buddies have actively invaded US soil with military forces, but political pressure to be "nice to Mexico" hasn't allowed us to respond the last time they did that.

Where's Blackjack Pershing when you need him?
 
You guys really should read before you post.

Perhaps you should remember what you post. You stated you weren't there but you'd bet money that the whites started it. So, you went back to the story to find justification for your racism. It's sort of like seeing a headline "man robs store" and saying he must have been black. You then read the story, and find that your racism is justified.

Our comments were directed towards your statement of having no facts but "I think the whites caused it." That's pretty much the textbook example of racism.
 
Perhaps you should remember what you post. You stated you weren't there but you'd bet money that the whites started it.

The story was posted on page 1.
I read it 30 minutes before I made a post on page 3.

The reason I'd put money on the white patrons starting the altercation is because that's what the article says and I've personally witnessed almost the exact thing happen.

So, you went back to the story to find justification for your racism. It's sort of like seeing a headline "man robs store" and saying he must have been black. You then read the story, and find that your racism is justified.

lol .. You mean like the post #4 in this thread?

Anyone wanna guess which party was doing the drive by shooting?
 
CRAZED SS -"...and the South is still filled with a bunch of racist jerkoffs..."

Uh huh, and after living in Los Angeles for more than 35 years, I assure you there are as many "racist jerkoffs" there in Southern Calif., per capita as in the South. And the "racist jerkoffs" come in every color and culture.

Being a racist is not exclusive to southern caucasians.

L.W.
 
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Yes - and you'll see poverty, drug use and low educational attainment are all far more highly correlated with criminal activity, especially violent crime, than race is.

Now minorities are more likley to be poor and less well educated than whites are (note this is in neither case a blanket statement, merely one of probability. I am more than a bit aware that rural Appalachia is largely white and Clarence Thomas is both richer and better educated than I am). Why is that? Well consider that until 40 years ago blacks weren't even allowed to be educated in the vast majority of halfway decent schools, faced legal discrimination for any kind of work and amenities, etc., and it might explain why we have a poor and relatively uneducated population of parents creating the generation currently in their prime. We know also how strongly parental income and education correlates to that of the child right? (again exceptions occur on both sides - my own parents were a bus driver and a house cleaner) so what does that say for the likelihood of the current generation of blacks avoiding the poverty and education trap?

You see that crap is self perpetuating. Not only do you have a greater probability that your parents do not care about education and cannot afford the resources to help you take best advantage of yours, but the chances are they are more likely to live in a school district that has the worst teachers, worst equipment, etc etc. Nothing correlates better to the drugs/crime/poverty trifecta than low education. Sure exceptions occur here too - we all know people both whte and black that have risen up out of such backgrounds through sheer intellect and force of will. But probabilities don't lie. Crap schools = crap education = poverty = crime. Hard to say otherwise really. Prisons aren't all that full of Mensa members with six-figure incomes (although in some cases they probably should be!).

I'm focusing on blacks because I know the data better. I can infer that it applies to most immigrants (especially when you throw in a language barrier too) but am not as familiar with numbers and studies that support this.

So next time you see a police blotter with lots of Tayshauns and Josés in it, start looking at where they lived and went to school. Look and see if their parents were given a chance at a decent life. Now on an individual level that in no way excuses a criminal - I do NOT buy the excuse that an underprivileged upbringing in any way, even slightly, excuses a life of crime. It just makes it a damn sight more likely. Remember - they said the same things about the Irish too.
 
Poverty piffle.

dmallind said
poverty, drug use and low educational attainment are all far more highly correlated with criminal activity, especially violent crime, than race is.

Says who? Cite, please?
Correlation is not the same as cause; and who has honestly looked to see if the correlation works better in the other direction?

But probabilities don't lie. Crap schools = crap education = poverty = crime.

But they do. All the time. If you cherry-pick which ones you look at.
By your logic, civilization can't exist. Poverty is man's natural state. And the human race started out with NO schools = NO education =? nothing but crime?
And the freed slaves after the Civil War virtually ALL were in worse poverty than anyone today, with less education, and crappier schools (or none at all.) Has violent crime among blacks been continually as bad as today? For that matter, there has been a huge drop in violent crime the last few years; has poverty suddenly declined ?
 
Leanwolf,

Having met a few people from California at college, I can honestly say elitist is the best way to describe them. To them the South is full of racist redneck bastards, the west/midwest is full of ignorant ranchers with guns, the PNW is full of people who weren't good enough to be Californians, and everywhere else is just not as good as them. They are the great Californians. I am so glad they are 3000 miles from me. They can keep sniffing their own farts for all I care.

Unlike SS, I can legally own an AR15, an AK47 and a bunch of other guns without registering them with the state, I can carry my pistol around OPENLY and live a free life. Just earlier today I bought ANOTHER rifle. He can stick around his oh so special California, I will stay in this racist backward thinking unenlightened South, where I am free to own and carry guns, pay no state income tax, and live a free existence.
 
Well let's see for cites you could start with Block (1979), Curry and Spengel (1988) Enocksson (1980) Smith and Jarjoura (1988) Messner and Tardif (1986), especailly the first and the last which show that the racial component is not all that helpful as an explanatory correlation. These are mostly poverty based, while touching on education (other studies show the strong correlation between the two, but surely that is easily accepted!). Studies that focus more on a direct correlation between edication and crime are Lochner (2004), Usher (1997), Fajnzylber et al. (2002). probably the best is Lochner and Moretti (2004) which uses the NLSY to show that high school graduation rates lower crime rates even correcting for ALL other factors

http://papers.nber.org/papers/w10478

You seem to be assuming that I think (or just flat out assuming that) there is ONE answer to crime. Actually poverty and violent crime HAVE both gone down - most notably throughout the 1990s. Both have levelled off somehwat since. Let's also look at other positive correlates of crime rates too - including community mobility, population density, family structure, gender, age, etc. Some of these are relatively stable but some are not - especially the first three.

Your complaints are a bit oversimplified. Why would lack of education mean nothing but crime? Do you deny that more and better education leads to a reduction in crime? Why does it have to be zero or all? That's irrational thinking. Better educated, more affluent people commit fewer crimes. Is that really such a controversial or difficult to accept statement?
 
BTW a lot of these studies are not available on free web sites and not worth buying unless you love academic sociology and heavy duty statistics (not putting on airs either - a lot of the detailed stuff is beyond me and I like statistics!). Here's a nice little summary page of some of the effects of education and crime

http://www.all4ed.org/publications/Crime Factoids for Website.doc

Edit - I take that back - I found a complete version of Lochner and Moretti's 2003 study abstract on convicts and education here - not too dense really, but read the whole thing.

http://www.econ.berkeley.edu/~moretti/lm46.pdf
 
So dmallind, why would we want to import tens of millions of poor, uneducated people into our country?
Biker
 
/*Biker, today my argument is simply that the laws are unenforceable anyway.
*/

If you mean that we won't catch 100% of the illegals 100% of the time, then you are right. Then again, EVERY law would be unenforceable.

If you are saying we couldn't do a better job of identifying and rounding up illegals by a magnitude of 100 or even 1,000, then you are wrong.

Your statement on uneforceable laws reminds me of my son last week when I was trying to teach him the sidestroke in the pool. He made two swishes with his arm and said, "See, it doesn't work, it never has."

I replied, "I just did it the length of the pool, is it the sidestroke that doesn't work, or someone not trying hard enough?"

How's your sidestroke, pax?
 
Buggered if I know Biker - I think we should import just enough of them to fill job needs personally. One of the common sense compromises that neither extreme seems to consider on immigration is having a competitive pool vetted for health and criminal background (even to be part of the pool) then graded by aptitude. Then allow in more or less of the pool based on unemployment rate, average time to fill certain job classifications and so on.

Add that to a program that says this is your in for three to five years, during which time of course you will pay taxes, keep your nose clean etc. At the end of that time period either take the citizenship test and renounce your previous citizenship or see ya and no longer eligible for future withdrawals from "the pool". I don't know if you are assuming I want completely open or even completely non-selective immigration, but 'taint so. Just because I say it's harder for unskilled labor to get in doesn't mean I want to allow in unlimited unskilled labor - but the silly double standard we have now is not working, right?

Add that to solid penalties for employers (like with drugs, demand will drive supply regardless of the punishment for supplying!) - start fining companies 1% of annual revenue for first offense, 10% for second offense and jailing CEOs 12 mos hard labor minimum for the third and see that demand dry up. Ataacking supply never works for any contraband. Ever.

Add to that a taxation of repatriated USD going to families in other countries (which could help support enforcement). This however should also apply to corporations - let's tax the people who send wealth overseas whether GE or José. Not ridiculously, since global trade is after all a positive thing - a 5% fee should be plenty.

Add to that (yes I know this pisses THR folks off) a genuine ID program that is universal, centralized and instant verification. Like I posted in another thread (and nobody answered) logistically how do you expect tens of millions of job applications, banking transactions, DL applications, voter registrations and so on to be verified without this? How do you constitutionally verify the citizenship of brown-skinned or funny accented folks who ARE citizens (me included in the latter description) without verifying this same of everyone? We DO get equal protection and rights after all. You want to have bank tellers check everyone's birth certificate or (as in my case) naturalization certificate? Who do they verify this with? Wanna pay and wait for all that? Electronic and centralized is the only way to go.
 
/*Mexico is messed up because those in power are ruining it for everyone else. They're greedy. There is no rule of law. The cops are on the cartel payroll and stuff like that. It makes it extremely hard for honest people to suceeed down there.*/

Agreed.

However, you don't fight lawlessness in your country by exporting it to another country. All of the May 1st protestors should have carried out all their marches, boycotts and strikes in their country, not ours.

Mexico has had bad leadership since the Aztecs would come around collecting young men as human sacrifices as taxes. However, by slipping across the border and then sending money back to Mexico, illegals subsidize their rotten government, instead of reforming it.
 
Actually most of those Aztec men volunteered to be sacrificed. Some considered it an honor. However sometimes when there were not any volunteers they went to the neighboring town and "found" some.

Dmallind: Good posting. Are you by chance a Sociologist or do you have a degree in Sociology?
 
Re: acceptable form of ID for weeding out the illegals; how about the driver's license. Just make them as hard to get as a building permit. :evil:
 
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