GUNFIRE AT WAFFLE HOUSE AFTER WHITES, HISPANICS ARGUE OVER CITIZENSHIP

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Earlier someone posted about assimilating millions of immigrants and the possible problems, later someone asked more or less, what millions, (If I read the question right), well, read this. http://www.washtimes.com/national/20060516-125016-4401r.htm

Seems that the immigration reform trying to be passed will open the floodgates to the tune of somwhere around 196 million or so by 2026... or about a third of the current population of the U.S.

What a mess.
 
Thanks Tecumseh but nah - econ undergrad and an MBA here. Still dealing with numbers, just usually with $ in front of em :)
 
Mexico is messed up because those in power are ruining it for everyone else. They're greedy. There is no rule of law. The cops are on the cartel payroll and stuff like that. It makes it extremely hard for honest people to suceeed down there.

Machismo, disrespect for education, too much reverence for blood lineage and status, the oppressions of the Catholic Church, ingrained racism (European contempt for the "Indios")...
 
longeyes, you can add to that list this little nugget that I always find helps in evaluating an individual or a whole society.
"You can accurately judge a man by how he treats his dog."
 
If there's hope it's that some of the Mexicans who have had a taste of American life may go back to Mexico and start changing the culture down there. Actually, I've heard that's happening.
 
Real Name...

Actually, I was thinking about throwing a couple o' beers on my bike and going for a ride. Did that work?

BIKER:eek:
 
Bike....beer....Bikeer...never mind.:cool:
Sometimes it's better to shut up while you're still behind.

Biker:)
 
What exactly is wrong with having a different culture?
Where is it written that Americans all have to be the same?

Ok, call me a hatemonger.. but not all cultures are created equal.

Even leaving out those cultures that still think it's a good idea to kill your daughter 'cause she was raped (*ahem*) .. ours is pretty darn special.

Western European culture has in the last several centuries abolished human slavery, created a scientific and technological revolution unprecedented* in human history, brought about a standard of living in which even our poor have a living standard kings of old would envy, and in its American iteration restored the very concept of personal liberty, self-determination, Constitutional government.

I like our culture, I think it's done a lot of good in the world, and I think yes, it should be protected. Yeah, we have our problems. God know we have our problems. But all things considered, our culture is a good one.

Unchecked immigration in the numbers we're talking about from Mexico will invariably change that, and I think it's fair to ask upfront if that change is for the best. It's become stylish over the last couple decades to celebrate cultural diversity for diversity's sake. I posit that cultural diversity is not a worthy goal in and of itself.

When looking at other cultures and integrating them into our own, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask if it will help or hurt. For example, given the amount of sheer resources Mexico has at her disposal, she has no reason aside from culture to still be a third world country.

Even if that were not the case, immigration in these numbers serves to balkanize any nation, and people come to hold their loyalties to their sub-group over that of their nation. I don't believe that's a good thing.

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

...Theodore Roosevelt



*even if some of us can't spell. :blush:
 
i'm sure it has been said before but,we did not import these people so they should be able to get back the way they came. that being said,there are laws to prevent serial killers from profiting from book or movie rights,and likewise they don't let bank robbers hold on to the loot when they are caught.following this line,the people who hired the illegals should not be allowed to profit from their crimes either.their assets should be used for severance and transit to the illegals.
 
Ok, call me a hatemonger.. but not all cultures are created equal.

Even leaving out those cultures that still think it's a good idea to kill your daughter 'cause she was raped (*ahem*) .. ours is pretty darn special.

Western European culture has in the last several centuries abolished human slavery, created a scientific and technological revolution unprecendentated in human history, brought about a standard of living in which even our poor have a living standard kings of old would envy, and in its American iteration restored the very concept of personal liberty, self-determination, Constitutional government.

+20
 
crazed ss...so wrong on so many levels

Qoute:
"I dont think this new immigration law will do anything. It's similar to the left trying to pass an assault weapons ban because the sheeple think it will cut down on gun violence. As it is, the law still wouldnt mean much..."

If there is a grain of truth in there, it is hidden in the fact that we do not enforce existing laws, so additional laws, if not backed by the will to enforce them, will indeed be futile.

Quote:
"I mostly agree with Bush's ideas which is basically cutting our losses. The problem is way too far out of hand for us to expect to make a dent in the 12 million illegals already here."

Straw man argument. Just because you cannot catch all of the fish doesn't mean you don't go fishing. Just because you don't get Bill Gates' paycheck doesn't mean you give up work. It is not all or nothing--just because you cannot do everything does not mean you cannot do anything.

Quote:
"We might as well figure out a way to integrate them into society.. After we figure out how to deal with the people arleady here , we need to crack down on employers who hire illegals."

Hmm...I am still waiting for part B of that statement to happen (outside of your isolated raid of a German owned pallet company. Part A of the paragraph, I reject out of hand. See previous paragraph re: Straw man argument.

Quote:
"Deporting 12 million people is impossilbe and building a 2000 mile super fence is assisine...."

Mexico deported 12 million people (probably far more than that, if the truth is ever known), so it is clearly not "impossible". A fence is not "asinine". To quote Robert Frost (probably not taught in schools these days) "Good fences make good neighbors".
Failing to secure your borders is irresponsible and unforgiveable.

That is all. :)
 
"When looking at other cultures and integrating them into our own, I think it's perfectly reasonable to ask if it will help or hurt."

Keep in mind that the people coming across the border illegally are the dregs of Mexico's society. They are the ones that are failures in Mexico, that is why they are leaving to come here (on foot). We arn't getting the best and brightest, we are getting the ones that can't make it there. Mexico has a society with businessmen, doctors, and professionals. They arn't leaving.
I for one don't think it is unreasonable that if someone wants to come to this country that we ask what they bring to the table. How are they going to improve our country ? What education and skills do they have to offer ? Contrary to what the lefties want you to believe, we don't need to import fast food workers, janitors, and landscapers. We already have our own people that dropped out of school, just got released from prison and can't stay off the booze.
But, currently, instead of improving our country we are being dragged down into the third world. There are parts of Las Vegas that look exactly like a third world country, and it wasn't like that even a few years ago. I have driven down streets and looked off to the side streets to see burned out cars, abandoned furniture, children barely able to walk playing outside by themselves.............................
No matter what a liberal tries to tell you, this isn't good. We arn't moving ahead or making progress. We are sliding backwards.
 
Yeah, as opposed to suggesting we need yet another unenforceable anti-immigration law
They had better be careful in them parts of NC, the local mountain folk are likely to enforce their own style of immigration law. Asheville’s a political pressure pot waiting to explode. It’s a small and deeply divided town with even share of far left liberals and hard right conservatives and both sides looking for a fight.
 
If there is a grain of truth in there, it is hidden in the fact that we do not enforce existing laws, so additional laws, if not backed by the will to enforce them, will indeed be futile.

The point is passing laws that dont address the root of a problem wont do much towards fixing it.


Straw man argument. Just because you cannot catch all of the fish doesn't mean you don't go fishing. Just because you don't get Bill Gates' paycheck doesn't mean you give up work. It is not all or nothing--just because you cannot do everything does not mean you cannot do anything

You missed my point entirely. My point was focusing our efforts on deporting 12 million people is the wrong way to go. As people come through the system, if they're found to be illegal we can go ahead and deport them... but going into communities and actively looking for illegals to deport would turn ugly very fast.

They tried something like that on a small scale here and it caused a huge uproar. The border patrol went around the public transportation system demanding people produce documents to prove their citizenship. They ended up simply harassing a bunch of Americans who happened to have a darker skin tone.


Mexico deported 12 million people (probably far more than that, if the truth is ever known), so it is clearly not "impossible". A fence is not "asinine". To quote Robert Frost (probably not taught in schools these days) "Good fences make good neighbors".
Failing to secure your borders is irresponsible and unforgiveable.

Robert Frost is taught in schools. Why wouldnt he be?
How do you propose seperating 12 million illegals from the 10s of million of Americans of Hispanic descent?
Are we going to have government agents demand papers from every brown person they suspect of being illegal? What if that person cant produce papers on the spot.. what then.. are the police to detain that person until he/she can prove citizenship? It's funny how people who are all "Ra Ra" about gun rights and freedom are so ready to violate other people's rights in the name of security.
 
Quote from previously cited article:
"The suspect stood up to leave, and the victim, who was seated at one of the tables, saw a gun in his waistband,” she said. “He followed the suspect outside the building, and that’s when the suspect shot toward the victim and into the building.”

Maybe this does not depict "the totallity of the circumstances" but this makes it appear that SOMEONE was dumb enough to go looking for a (gun)fight.
 
Pax said:
Yeah, as opposed to suggesting we need yet another unenforceable anti-immigration law.
The problem with our immigration laws isn't so much that they are unenforceable as that they are unenforced.

For example, can you imagine the BATFE sitting idly by while 11 million people bought Class 3 weapons without bothering to register them?
 
Crazed and anyone else who thinks like him

I'm from the south and proud of it.There is racism wherever you go.You can call me a racist,bigot,redneck,etc..
The problem is with all the people from south of the border who are here illegally.They committed a crime coming here and should be treated as criminals.I don't appreciate someone being here that isn't supposed to be demanding me to subsidize their sorry ass.If you want to live here,do it the right way-the ways millions before have.I don't owe them medical care,a school to go to,a job or any welfare program they're participating in illegally.
If you want to live in America,learn the language,school should not be taught in spanish and English.If you don't want to assimilate-go back home.Students here can't learn at a normal rate due to having to accomodate the illegals in the public school system.Check North Carolina statistics and see what the hispanic population is,if you think I'm blowing smoke.
The political correctness has to end and call a spade a spade.The deal at Waffle House is just an example of what is going to happen if it isn't brought under control.The majority of the hispanics in this area that are here legally are livid about the illegals and want them gone.If people don't take this serious,their children's America won't resemble America at all.
 
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I'm from the south and proud of it.
I never said you shouldnt be

There is racism wherever you go.
Obviously.. but whenever I go back home to visit family it's a culture shock to see how overtly racist people can be in the South compared to how things are in CA. Just my personal experience though. Maybe I just had bad luck or went to the wrong areas and business establishments.

You can call me a racist,bigot,redneck,etc..
If the shoe fits...

The deal at Waffle House is just an example of what is going to happen if it isn't brought under control

The deal at Waffle House is just an example of what is going to happen if people want be idiots and harrass others because of skin color.

Check North Carolina statistics and see what the hispanic population is,if you think I'm blowing smoke.

lol.. I believe you. My mom does real estate in Charlotte..She even wants me to move out there. I dont know how long I'd last though..

Apparently the market there is growing nicely. She says people in NC are extremely fed up with the influx if of illegals and that some areas "look just like California" now. Funny thing is.. even though people cant stand the influx of illegals, they have no problem hiring them to do construction work to drive the real estate market there. Americans cant have their cake and eat it too.
 
My mom does real estate in Charlotte..She even wants me to move out there. I dont know how long I'd last though..

Crazed, you are right. Stay in California. You don't want to be in the South.

...and the South doesn't want a Californian.
 
garyk/nm said:
Re: acceptable form of ID for weeding out the illegals; how about the driver's license. Just make them as hard to get as a building permit.

That ain't funny! I'm trying to get my BP for my new home now! :D
 
Why do some of you oppose securing your border so much? Give the border patrol the necessary powers, let the cops ask people if they are citizens or not. When an illegal enters the prison system give them a punishment and DEPORT them. Don't show a defeatist attitude to borders.
 
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