Bigjake
Member
The part where a KID needs these weapons past their legal use.
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but outside of the Police Explorers, you don't need to be throwing your weight around with mace and asp, goes 2x if you're 15
Guns got taken away!
- Thread starter The_Sheriff
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The part where a KID needs these weapons past their legal use.
Perhaps I'm reading too much into this, but outside of the Police Explorers, you don't need to be throwing your weight around with mace and asp, goes 2x if you're 15
BridgeWalker
Member
The head of the household has a right and need to know and control what's going on in his house. The dynamics of the relationship between your relatives are not really relevant. What you need to do with the Bersa is hand it over to your father and ask if it can stay in the home. Odds are he'll say no.
Sorry, but permission to access firearms only for hunting or target practice are a perfectly reasonable limitation for a fifteen year old. As for home defense, it sounds like until you brought an illicit or semi-licit gun collection into the home, there was your father's duty pistol. Now chances are there won't be much at all.
Frankly, I'd take the odds of violent home invasion over the odds of an accident involving a poorly concealed firearms that some of the people in the house don't know about and that is under the control of a fifteen year old of dubious maturity.
Sorry, but permission to access firearms only for hunting or target practice are a perfectly reasonable limitation for a fifteen year old. As for home defense, it sounds like until you brought an illicit or semi-licit gun collection into the home, there was your father's duty pistol. Now chances are there won't be much at all.
Frankly, I'd take the odds of violent home invasion over the odds of an accident involving a poorly concealed firearms that some of the people in the house don't know about and that is under the control of a fifteen year old of dubious maturity.
General Geoff
Member
well he said they were on his explorer's belt, which would imply that he only carries them when he's doing the explorer thing. Would that not be legal use? And even if he did carry around mace normally, what of it? Is it suddenly illegal to carry mace around for protection? (granted I might eat my words, I don't know Arizona law that well)
Bridgewalker, you seem to assume that Sheriff's dad is doing this because HE thinks it's best. If that's the case, well then I somewhat agree with the idea of giving up the Bersa.
However, it seems more likely that he's just "doing what mommy tells him," and Sheriff needs to convince him of this.
shootinstudent
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2005
- Messages
- 786
HO88,
It may never result in a harm, but it is certainly much more likely to cause serious problems than to yield any benefit. And there's also the fact that his parents do have a right to make these decisions.
We don't have all the information behind this decision: there can be any number of good reasons why his father has taken his guns away, and I don't think anyone on the net or elsewhere is in a position to second-guess his father's decision making.
From the looks of it, it's not even an anti-gun move; the kid told us he's able to go hunting, for example.
So there's more than meets the eye here, and I'm not comfortable encouraging a minor to hide a firearm from his parents on what information is available.
It may never result in a harm, but it is certainly much more likely to cause serious problems than to yield any benefit. And there's also the fact that his parents do have a right to make these decisions.
We don't have all the information behind this decision: there can be any number of good reasons why his father has taken his guns away, and I don't think anyone on the net or elsewhere is in a position to second-guess his father's decision making.
From the looks of it, it's not even an anti-gun move; the kid told us he's able to go hunting, for example.
So there's more than meets the eye here, and I'm not comfortable encouraging a minor to hide a firearm from his parents on what information is available.
230RN
2A was "political" when it was first adopted.
Ditto on both.
I can foresee situationS where the hidden Bersa causes you to lose your 2A rights for life.
Turn the Bersa in to your dad.
And be patient.
I recall seeing an engraved bronze plaque on the control panel of a small experimental canard airplane, similar to the one John Denver died in. It said,
Telling a 15 year old, that you only know on an internet forum, to hide a gun from his father is irresponsible.
The_Sheriff, my advice to you would be to turn in the Bersa to your dad and wait until you are 18. You live in his house, you need to be completely honest with him and abide by his rules. Lying to your father is not going to make the situation any better.
The_Sheriff, my advice to you would be to turn in the Bersa to your dad and wait until you are 18. You live in his house, you need to be completely honest with him and abide by his rules. Lying to your father is not going to make the situation any better.
Agreed with 230RN. Since it is illegal (everyplace I know of) to transfer a handgun to a minor, it's not yours. You may consider it so, but it is not. Return it to your father or whomever "owns" it. As for the rest, I'm not going to give further advice. This is a personal family matter and should have stayed that way.
SASD209
SASD209
+1 on giving up the gun for now maybe you could come to some arrangement to put it in a handgun safe in case of emergency , the chances of actually needing it are very slim and you need to get educated on the whens and how deadly force are justified , if you were to shoot someone when it was not justified you could ruin your entire life !!. This is not a game !! 
You have already said that you will be allowed to go hunting and to the range so take the opportunity to go with your dad and show him that you are a responsible gun owner , not just some kid that wants to play being the deputy, Rambo or whatever , be the man , not THE MAN !
You have already said that you will be allowed to go hunting and to the range so take the opportunity to go with your dad and show him that you are a responsible gun owner , not just some kid that wants to play being the deputy, Rambo or whatever , be the man , not THE MAN !
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Well with most things I'm sure there is more to this than meets the eye.
That said, I'm making a couple of assumptions when I say to hide the gun and keep quiet.
I'm assuming dad knows he has it, and since dad hasn't asked for it back that certainly sounds like implied permission, he just doesn't want grandma to know for whatever reason.
Grandma may run the household, but she's not the legal guardian I'm assuming.
Now, if dad does NOT know he has it that's a whole other can of worms and there's probably a law or 2 being broken and the best thing to do is pony up.
But, it sounds like Dad at one time or another gave permission for all this to happen, but now he's trying to placate grandma.
The Bersa, for both The_Sheriff and his dad, appears to be one of those "out of grandmas sight, out of grandmas mind" things.
If that's not the case then no, don't hide it.
But, if dad gave him the Bersa but hasn't asked for it back specifically, that says a lot in my opinion.
Sheriff just needs to be really careful here, one wrong move could impact his ability to own firearms for the rest of his life, as well as other things.
That said, I'm making a couple of assumptions when I say to hide the gun and keep quiet.
I'm assuming dad knows he has it, and since dad hasn't asked for it back that certainly sounds like implied permission, he just doesn't want grandma to know for whatever reason.
Grandma may run the household, but she's not the legal guardian I'm assuming.
Now, if dad does NOT know he has it that's a whole other can of worms and there's probably a law or 2 being broken and the best thing to do is pony up.
But, it sounds like Dad at one time or another gave permission for all this to happen, but now he's trying to placate grandma.
The Bersa, for both The_Sheriff and his dad, appears to be one of those "out of grandmas sight, out of grandmas mind" things.
If that's not the case then no, don't hide it.
But, if dad gave him the Bersa but hasn't asked for it back specifically, that says a lot in my opinion.
Sheriff just needs to be really careful here, one wrong move could impact his ability to own firearms for the rest of his life, as well as other things.
Hand over the Bersa. If it is found later it will only cause distrust. Turning it over shows that you are responsible and respect their decision even if you don't agree with it. You have many years ahead of you to build a collection. Don't do anything else now, but after a while say you want to be taken to a range for shooting because you enjoy the sport. And in all areas of your life try to demonstrate responsibility. You will be better for it even if you don't get them back.
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The only assumption to make regarding a 15-year-old kid who has illegally acquired guns, other weapons, and ammunition without parental knowledge or approval and still has a firearm in his posession illegally is that he is highly dangerous.TexasRifleman said:
And not to be trusted because of his proven lack of judgment, maturity and composure.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
And you know it was illegally acquired how? You know his parent has no knowledge how?
He posted earlier it was legally in his posession. If he's telling the truth then dad knows about it. If he's not telling the truth this whole thread is pointless anyway. He did post that he's concerned about lying so there's some confusion there. If he's lying to dad it's bad juju, but grandma can eat beans (if she's not the guardian).
If he's telling the truth then he is legally in posession of the gun and dad knows about it then it's none of grandma's business if he has it or not, if his dad is his legal guardian.
I'm going on the assumption that he is being truthful and the episode is designed to keep grandma happy for whatever reason. If that's not the case then, as I've said, he's in a world of trouble potentially and needs to pony up.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not encouraging him to lie to his legal guardian at all.
He should have this conversation with dad, without grandma around.
My 12 year old has a rifle in his closet. It's legally there. I'm not gonna tell his grandma though. If she asked I'd tell her "Of course he doesn't have a gun".
LightningJoe
Member
Join the Marines right away and go fight America's enemies! When you get back, your Dad can ask his Mom and she'll give you your guns back.
Cosmoline
Member
Wait till you're 18 me boyo. Trust me there will be PLENTY of time for shooting later on. In the mean time respect yourn elders.
TimboKhan
Member
This issue is pretty clear to me. He is a minor, Grandma didn't want him to have guns, Dad evidently agreed, issue over. It doesn't matter if Grandma had any business butting in, although I am under the impression that they were kept at her house, and if that is the case, Grandma had every right to say what she does and does not want stored at her house. Even if they weren't, the Father of this boy has agreed that he should not have them. For us to sit here and comment on that is, frankly, not our business.
Also, really? Are some of you really giving a 15 year old kid advice on how to stash a handgun? I am not saying the gun or guns were illegal gained, and I am not saying that The Sheriff isn't a responsible kid, but it is a patently horrible idea for us as adults, in this day and age, on a publicly accessible forum, to be telling a minor ways that he can hide a firearm.
Also, really? Are some of you really giving a 15 year old kid advice on how to stash a handgun? I am not saying the gun or guns were illegal gained, and I am not saying that The Sheriff isn't a responsible kid, but it is a patently horrible idea for us as adults, in this day and age, on a publicly accessible forum, to be telling a minor ways that he can hide a firearm.
Floppy_D
Member In Memoriam
I appreciate your enthusiasm, but what if she finds it and wants charges filed? I get that your dad is pro-gun, but if he gave up the combo, would he stop her from pressing charges? Do you know how much that will hurt you later?
It's cool to stand up for a cause, but don't risk burning all of your bridges yet. Count the days, and name your first Class III after her.
It's cool to stand up for a cause, but don't risk burning all of your bridges yet. Count the days, and name your first Class III after her.
Guns and more
member
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 1,929
You won the battle and lost the war. I can't imagine anything worse than having my mother die without resolving an issue. I'm sorry.
Now for the issue at hand. If you're still living at home, you have to respect your father's wishes. You do sound like a responsible citizen, so be assured that 18 will be here before you know it. Then years will go by too fast. By the way, I see you are in Prescott, AZ. probably one of the most gun friendly areas of the country. Maybe you can convince your dad that the guns will be safer in your house than at your grandmothers. Fighting over it will not solve anything. Adults are careful about 15 yr.olds having a large gun collection in the light of school shootings. Try to understand their point of view. How did you buy (?) all those anyway?
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I guess that's where I'm missing it.
Seems to me his dad had knowledge or he wouldn't have known where the guns were and what the combination to the safe was.
Maybe I'm naive thinking he's telling the truth.
The Tourist
member
If the dad knew he had these items, and didn't say anything until the grandma blew a fuse, it means two things.
First, his dad permitted the equipment in his home and under the control of a locked cabinet. Sounds good to me.
Second, it also sounds like dad needs to lay some ground rules within his home for the conduct of his mother.
My Mother tried one time to order my wife around. One time.
First, his dad permitted the equipment in his home and under the control of a locked cabinet. Sounds good to me.
Second, it also sounds like dad needs to lay some ground rules within his home for the conduct of his mother.
My Mother tried one time to order my wife around. One time.
Northern-Lights
Member
I shouldn't....but I'm going to chime in. There is an issue of trust here. If you hide the gun...and it's found....what will that do to whatever good will you might have?
On the other hand.....do you suppose your dad might begin to see some maturity in you if you were to tell him they missed on gun, and while you disagree with his actions.....will recognize he is the decision maker and you'll abide by his wishes? I'll bet that will open a lot of good conversation with him.
You're on 15...you really have no business having mace or a baton when walking around in public. I'm not going to judge you and tell you that you have an ego problem......but I will say that a great deal of snickering happens by people when they see people (old or young) trying to look "tough".
Fess up.....grow up......and if you feel the need to look "bad"......join the marines and go into force recon. (It will either kill you....or make you what you want to be.)
On the other hand.....do you suppose your dad might begin to see some maturity in you if you were to tell him they missed on gun, and while you disagree with his actions.....will recognize he is the decision maker and you'll abide by his wishes? I'll bet that will open a lot of good conversation with him.
You're on 15...you really have no business having mace or a baton when walking around in public. I'm not going to judge you and tell you that you have an ego problem......but I will say that a great deal of snickering happens by people when they see people (old or young) trying to look "tough".
Fess up.....grow up......and if you feel the need to look "bad"......join the marines and go into force recon. (It will either kill you....or make you what you want to be.)
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