h&k Mark 23 - .45 ACP

[bryanZ06]

Another vote for the SIG P220ST. I bought one a couple of years ago and it's by far one of my favorites.

 

[mpmarty]

The m23 HK is at its very best when you're out of ammo. It is an absolutely superlative club. As a pistol it sucks.

 

[Disaster]

The Mk 23 in military service is generally a safe queen (or arms room queen, in this case).

But, the standard USP is not. It is an excellent sidearm...low recoil...very accurate.

 

[Smaug]

Another option would be the HK USP Elite.

Awesome trigger, longer sight radius than the regular USPs, but not as bulky or pricey as the SOCOMs. Very soft recoil, and very accurate.

 

[mgregg85]

Trusty old H&K, because 'you suck and we hate you'.

Does the P7 retain the typically awful H&K trigger pull? Just wondering.

 

[Onmilo]

Smaug, that point was covered on page one.
mgregg85, anybody ever stop to think that H&K may not have such a wonderful disposition to the commercial market because most commercial consumers buy one, or maybe two H&K products and then some of these consumers spend all their time complaining about the purchase to anybody who will listen?
Most of the actual complaining hinges on the expense of the product and how the customer service won't give the guy a new gun, magazine, rear sight, etc., because he dropped his on the floor and now there is a nick in the finish,,,,,,,,,,

H&K produces an excellent product.
If one cannot truely justify the expense in their own mind, I suggest they buy something less expensive like an XD.
Chances are they will be happier with the purchase because it will be cheaper and they will feel they got a better deal,,,,,,,

 

[FantasticChadwick]

I own 3 Mark 23 pistols. Two of them I bought brand new with consecutive serial numbers and I wanted to keep them brand new so I have not fired them. The third I bought only recently and I have not yet had a chance to shoot it, so I can't say how it shoots.

What I can say is that if you prefer a large gun, and your budget will allow you to spend upwards around a couple grand, the Mark 23 is a very fine choice. It is a huge pistol and comes with all the limitations that a big pistol has, but it is virtually unsurpassed in quality, durability, and accuracy.

I bought my third Mark 23 with the intent to use it as a vehicle carry weapon. I carry a small little cheap .380 on my person, but I keep my USP .40 in the truck. Now, instead of the USP, I intend on carrying my Mark 23 in the truck (after running a few hundred rounds through it at the range). I will be moving my USP to a closed bag on my tool belt (I'm an electrician).

My point is that different firearms serve different purposes to different people. To sit in here and talk down about the Mark 23 because it's too large for your use, or too expensive for your budget doesn't help Fat Boy a bit.

The Mark 23 is a fantastic weapon, but probably not the best "all around" .45 on the market.

I have had 8 years of reliable service from my USP .40. I've run over 5,000 rounds through it (many of those were very hot hand loads) and not one single time has my USP given me reason to doubt its service. If you're looking for supremely reliable, durable, and good for all around use, I would look into the various configurations of the USP/Tactical/Compact pistols that HK Offers.

 

[Deer Hunter]

I own 3 Mark 23 pistols. Two of them I bought brand new with consecutive serial numbers and I wanted to keep them brand new so I have not fired them. The third I bought only recently and I have not yet had a chance to shoot it, so I can't say how it shoots.

Ok, havn't shot it yet...

What I can say is that if you prefer a large gun, and your budget will allow you to spend upwards around a couple grand, the Mark 23 is a very fine choice. It is a huge pistol and comes with all the limitations that a big pistol has, but it is virtually unsurpassed in quality, durability, and accuracy.

But it is all of the above? Without even shooting it?

 

[TurboFC3S]

Haha, own 3 at $2000 a pop and haven't fired one yet? They're not Registered Magnums, they're meant to be shot.

I have shot a Mark 23, and own a USP Elite right now. The 23 is a totally different gun, and since the OP is complaining about recoil it probably is the lightest recoiling 45 I've ever shot. The recoil system is very similar to the other USP's, just much beefier as is everything on the gun. I have long skinny fingers so the grip diameter was no problem for me, and weight isn't bad either ... it's just a BIG gun, not really that heavy. It shoots lights out, plain and simple, crazy accurate for a tupperware combat gun ... it would probably hang with my Baer actually. I ended up buying the Elite because it's 1/2 the price and just as accurate with a bit smaller grip and overall size. The 23 is just a bit TOO much for civilian use.

 

[18DAI]

The Mark 23 is quite large. Try the USP full size 45. It is a superbly accurate and reliable pistol.

The same people who rag on the USP's trigger will tell you how great an M&P is

Try one for yourself, you won't be disappointed!

 

[FantasticChadwick]

Ok, havn't shot it yet...



But it is all of the above? Without even shooting it?

Yes. Based on very extensive reading I've done on the Mark 23 over the past decade or so, and my own experiences with other HK handguns, I feel comfortable making those claims about the pistol.

The complains about the pistol are pretty much limited to:

1) It's too big
2) It's too expensive
3) I'm jealous of HK owners because I myself cannot afford one
4) My experience in shooting is limited to my friend's non-HK pistol, so I think it's better than anything with "HK" on it

Did I miss any?

 

[Deer Hunter]

I could pick your logic apart with a pair of tweezers.

But I doubt it would do anything for this thread.

Carry-on, folks. Carry-on.

 

[usp9]

Three Mk 23s and none fired...ever??

That's like being maried to fill in the name of your favorite blond bombshell and not consumating the union.

I haven't got that kind of will power. I wish I had just one Mk23... then it and I would live happily ever after.

 

[Correia]

) It's too big

Yes.

2) It's too expensive

Yes, to an absurd degree for a plastic framed gun.

3) I'm jealous of HK owners because I myself cannot afford one

I'm currently wearing a $2,000 custom pistol, and I still think that it is stupidly expensive.

4) My experience in shooting is limited to my friend's non-HK pistol, so I think it's better than anything with "HK" on it

I'm a retired (thank goodness) NFA dealer. At that point I owned a couple of full auto rental HKs, and I've shot every single gun HK has made except for the 21, the MP7, and that underwater thingy.

And the Mk23 is still an overated boat anchor with a crappy trigger. "Offensive" handgun... snort... The only thing offensive is people who buy one, never shoot the stupid thing, and then proclaim it to be the best gun ever made because they read about it on the internet.

I'll give it this. It does have very low recoil. As would any normal .45 if you tied a brick to it.

 

[usp9]

And the Mk23 is still an overated boat anchor with a crappy trigger.

Wow. Since the capabilities of the MK23 far outshine the 1911, you must really loathe that lump of pot metal too.

 

[Correia]

No, because the 1911 is in a different weight class than the Mk23, which I think is about the same as a Mini-14. And it is accurate without a rubber gasket, has a much better trigger, ergonomics designed for humans unlucky enough to be born without the superior Teutonic 4th knuckle, and when you use a good 1911 has excellent reliability. (and at about half the cost of the HK).

What capabilities? 2 more rounds? A whole lot bigger? (ironically, for the size of the grip, the fact it only has 10 rounds is pathetic). The XD has 3 more rounds and is much smaller. Even the mutant gripped Glock 21 has 3 more rounds. Even if you stick to a 1911, the double stack guns in that category are 14 rounders.

What capabilites? Trigger that is worse than a $120 Makarov? (literally, the DA pull on a Mk23 blows). The single action is meh.

Okay, you've got a threaded barrel. I own a suppresor and stuck it on an inferior non-HK. That cost me like an extra $125. Gee whiz, I can put tall sights on it too... Whoop.

What other capabilities? A rubber o-ring that makes it shoot decent groups? (and it should, since it is the size of a piece of farm equipment).

What else?

Oh, Navy SEALs use it? Okay, if you're a Navy SEAL awesome for you. Then again, I've known a lot of SF guys, and I've known exactly two that ever used the Mk23, and the majority sat unused in arms rooms. If you're a vigilante Red Six/former green beret scuba diving into shark infested waters to rescue the President from the Lions of Lucerne while yelling "Tango Down!" Ghost Recon style as you drop your multitude of enemies, and you want to carry that Mk23, good for you. For most normal people, it is a complete waste of money.

Let's see... Capabilites... well, it is reliable, but so is that $125 Makarov.

The Mk23 is an overrated, massive, really expensive for what it is .45 pistol, and the vast majority of the ones I transferred in for people were going to rich guys who didn't know any better, because they didn't actually shoot, but they'd bought into the HK hype. If you're going to buy a gun just for the flash and never shoot it, at least drop the money on something that has some decent craftsmanship and keep custom gunsmiths in business.

 

[atblis]

For some reason I was thinking it came with a 12 rnd magazine.

 

[Correia]

I can't even remember, I was so underwhelmed with the darn thing.

 

[LancerMW]

+1 on the 220ST(this is an amazing gun) or a Nice 1911(also amazing if you get the right one). the Mark23 is to big, may aswell get a small carbine so you can conceil it better.

 

[usp9]

Correia, I call B.S. You are wrong on every point. I don't think you've ever seen, much less touched a MK23. Those of us that are familiar with it know it is a phenominally good firearm. By the way, it weighs the same as a standard 1911, is only one inch longer, and that inch is all barrel, and out shoots any military firearm ever fielded by the U.S.

Call it a boat anchor if you want, but only the unlearned think it a poor weapon. Not used by S.F. ... yeah right.

 

[Correia]

Wrong on every point?

Trigger? Garbage. No, really it is.

Bigger? In every single dimension, not just length.

Weight? Heavy, and it is plastic.

Capacity? For the size, not good enough.

Okay, so you say it outshoots every single military firearm every produced. I'm assuming you're talking about handguns. How many wars have we used the Mk23 in? You can tick off GWOT, but how many times has it actually been used?

That inferior piece of pot metal you reffered to earlier? Love it or hate it, it worked on a few Nazis, Imperial Japanes, Italians, Koreans, Chinese, Viet Kong, and Other.

As for SF use, I worked mostly with Army, not Navy. And of the Navy guys I knew, the reaction was usually, whatever. Its okay I guess, and then their handgun was whatever they were issued, which wasn't the Mk23. Of the Army guys, it got pulled out to screw around with, and then never actually used. But since we're in a thread full of normal folks who aren't killing tangos, it is irrelevant.

I'm low-speed/high-drag myself, so can't speak for the ninja community, but if they think it is that awesome, imagine how good they could shoot something that didn't have a trigger that feels like a Ruger P91?

In the non-ninja world, I think the Mk23 is the firearms equivelent to a H2 Hummer. It is big, flashy, expensive, mostly purchased by rich guys as a status symbol of something that it really isn't, avoided by most people that have a clue, and worshipped by people who don't actually drive them. For example, you've got a guy in this thread who's happy to own 3, proclaims them the best thing ever, but hasn't actually shot them. Kind of like the Hummer that has never left pavement but your neighbor the real-estate guy won't shut up about his stupid H2, while the guy who off roads all the time has a beater truck that actually works but cost half.

If you don't think I've actually touched a Mk23, I've got about fifty THR members that know me personally that will vouch that I've shot a couple of handguns, fair to middling well, and I'd take most of them over a Mk23. Unless the goal was to fleece people on Gunbroker, then I'd take the Mk23 so I could sell it to a rich guy so he could keep it in his safe to show his buddies and use the money to buy something that wasn't an overpriced USP on steroids.

 

[FantasticChadwick]

Wrong on every point?

Trigger? Garbage. No, really it is.

I've actually never been a huge fan of any HK trigger. I wouldn't call it garbage, but certainly not ideal either.

Bigger? In every single dimension, not just length.

Weight? Heavy, and it is plastic.

Capacity? For the size, not good enough.

It is big, no denying. Not only big, but it's got big corners and virtually no contour.

Its weight is where it counts. What good does a steel grip do? I want the weight in the parts that take the abuse.

That inferior piece of pot metal you reffered to earlier? Love it or hate it, it worked on a few Nazis, Imperial Japanes, Italians, Koreans, Chinese, Viet Kong, and Other.

Nice logic for living in the stone ages. Just because something did the job in its time means we shouldn't strive to build bigger, better, meaner, badder, and more capable? I don't share your opinion.

I'm low-speed/high-drag myself, so can't speak for the ninja community, but if they think it is that awesome, imagine how good they could shoot something that didn't have a trigger that feels like a Ruger P91?

Good for you. Then I encourage you to own/operate the handgun that best fits your needs - clearly not a Mk23.

In the non-ninja world, I think the Mk23 is the firearms equivelent to a H2 Hummer. It is big, flashy, expensive, mostly purchased by rich guys as a status symbol of something that it really isn't, avoided by most people that have a clue, and worshipped by people who don't actually drive them. For example, you've got a guy in this thread who's happy to own 3, proclaims them the best thing ever, but hasn't actually shot them. Kind of like the Hummer that has never left pavement but your neighbor the real-estate guy won't shut up about his stupid H2, while the guy who off roads all the time has a beater truck that actually works but cost half.

I do own 3, I have shot none of them (I just acquired the one I plan on shooting 2 days ago and only today I picked up a thousand rounds of ammo for it and plan on meeting some buddies at the range Wednesday morning - less than 2 days from now), and I never said it is the best thing ever. I did say it was supreme in certain areas, but I also recognized that it comes with other limitations.

Comparing the Mk23 to an H2 shows your ignorance in both. The Mk23 is far more comparable to the H1 in fact. The H2 has most of the size and weight as the H1, but they stripped away all the features that make the H1 such an impressive machine. The Mk23, like the H1, is big and bulky, but there is a purpose to it and it supremely serves its purpose. Its purpose is not to be a small, slim, conceal carry pistol and it doesn't pretend to be that.

If you don't think I've actually touched a Mk23, I've got about fifty THR members that know me personally that will vouch that I've shot a couple of handguns, fair to middling well, and I'd take most of them over a Mk23.

"If you have to tell them who you are, then you ain't"

Although decently funny and probably a fun guy to hang out with at the bar, your aggressive whine-fest really diminishes the weight people are going to put into your opinion. So the Mk23 isn't the pistol for you; fine. We get it. All the fancy adjectives you've come up with can pretty much be summed up in the 4 complaints I listed that people have against the Mk23. It seems most of yours fall into the 3rd and 4th reasons. Some of us can afford 3 Mark 23's AND the other pistols AND we can objectively give credit to each pistol where it deserves because we don't have to substantiate our ego by slamming what we can't have.

an overpriced USP on steroids.

Actually, the way I understand it is that the Mk23 came before the USP and that the USP is a toned down Mk23, not the other way around. The Mk23 was designed first, then HK made a smaller civilian version of it that we call the USP.

I have owned a USP .40 for many years and even mentioned that that would probably be a better "all around .45" than the Mk23, but you seem to only want to acknowledge some of what is said so you can have verbal diarrhea (metaphorically speaking) and try to be the wise guy.




And let me ask, since you apparently don't own a Mark 23, why are you soooo concerned with the price tag? Why get on here and rant? Nobody has forced you to own one, yet you want to get on here and insult the people who own them or even admire them. I think that's interesting. You should call your mom.

 

[Deer Hunter]

Chadwick, you really don't know who you are talking to, do you?

I'd wager my Remington 1740 that you don't know who you are talking to.

But hey, you have a MK23. I'm sure the babes are lining up around the block to watch you use your Offensive Handgun to take down tangos.

Larry's right on the money with this one. There is nothing spectacular about the MK23 other than its size and hype.

Yes, the thing is huge and has horrible controls. And that's coming from a guy who owns a CZ97 monstrosity.

So you own all sorts of other guns and have unquestionably come to the conclusion, before shooting any of your three pistols, that your polymer framed double stack .45 is far superior to any other double stack polymer pistol on the market?

We're not trying to attack you, but you're not exactly making it hard not to.

 

[FantasticChadwick]

So you own all sorts of other guns and have unquestionably come to the conclusion, before shooting any of your three pistols, that your polymer framed double stack .45 is far superior to any other double stack polymer pistol on the market?

We're not trying to attack you, but you're not exactly making it hard not to.

You wouldn't be able to point out where I said that because I didn't say that. I've very objectively recognized the limitations of the Mk23.

Because I haven't shot one, does that mean I can't at all know of what I am talking because all the reviews and everyone I know who owns one can't possibly be accurate sources on which to base an opinion?

So, when I go shoot this thing, does that magically make me know everything about the Mk23 and suddenly I'll realize that everyone who owns one and thinks highly of it is full of poo?

And what happens if I end up liking it after I shoot it? Then does your argument just morph to something like "Oh, you've never killed anyone with your Mk23 so you can't have an opinion on which firearm you would rather have available to you in the event that your life is threatened" or since I've never been on Mars with it will your statement be "Oh you've never been to Mars with your Mark 23 so any preference you have on what firearm you think you'd rather carry with you to Mars is just completely ill-informed"?

I don't think the Mk23 is superior to all polymer double stack pistols - as a matter of fact I don't think any pistol can carry a blanket title of "superior". I don't even think it's an "all around" best pistol and I've said so repeatedly here. You apparently don't fully read before badgering and mis-quoting.

 

[mljdeckard]

Correia is one of the members here you can call a liar at your own peril.

I've held a Mk 23 but never shot one. Given the choice, I would carry my Kimber to war tomorrow, I would leaave the Mk 23 in the locker. I feel the same way about a $2700 Nighthawk I shot at Impact. I think the law of diminishing returns kicks in a little bit north of $1200 or so.