h&k prices
- Thread starter jamal28
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Life During Wartime
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They charge that much, well because they can, but also
now this is from what I understand, I personally have no experience iwth them
They have a special recoil reduction technology and they are extremely accurate also
watch this video
www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-K7JNiGZrw
now this is from what I understand, I personally have no experience iwth them
They have a special recoil reduction technology and they are extremely accurate also
watch this video
www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-K7JNiGZrw
usp9
Member
Quality guns cost money. Same as Sig, FNH, even Glock, Wilson, etc. There's a long list of guns that come at a price. HK isn't anywhere near the top of that list. A quality gun will cost... no secret here.
JTQ
Member
It's all a matter of perspective. Much like usp9 said, if you are a SIG, Browning Hi-Power, or 1911 shooter, the H&K will fit right in and the cost probably won't make you think twice. If on the other hand, as you've mentioned in relation to Glock's and M&P's, if that is your perspective, the cost of an H&K would seem high.
HKs are different, and either you like them or you don't.
I can tell you right now, I wouldn't own a polymer handgun at all if I hadn't discovered the HK P30, I like it that much.
The best way to get over HK sticker shock is to buy used.
I can tell you right now, I wouldn't own a polymer handgun at all if I hadn't discovered the HK P30, I like it that much.
The best way to get over HK sticker shock is to buy used.
According to a guy who used to work there, Sig and H&K have the same approach, as both have a US company fronting for them. Both sell parts to their US company at higher prices than they would sell to Euro governments, then they take a share of the pistol sale as well, double-dipping. The guy went on to say that Beretta, for instance, is owned by one guy, and for years the company made all the parts for their firearms in-house, while that is certainly not the case with Sig and H&K. Beretta is apparently changing to subcontract parts, so that dynamic may not last forever. FWIW.
This is a no brainer really, you always pay a premium for European engineering.
You could buy a Ruger (ford) or you could buy a BMW (hk).
Could get a hi point (Dodge/ Chrysler...yeah I just went there) or you could get a Mercededs Benz (sig).
Go to Europe and these cars are as common as any American car here.
You just pay for the provenance if you will.
Though the European cars are harder to work on and require special tools they are of a higher quality (excluding fiats, puegots opels etc.) than their American counterparts.
You could also go to the store and get a Hershey bar for $.75 or pay $2.00 for a tolberone bar. Even if it's made here you pay a premium for it being European.
Europeans tend to get paid...and taxed more than Americans, someone has to pay.
You could buy a Ruger (ford) or you could buy a BMW (hk).
Could get a hi point (Dodge/ Chrysler...yeah I just went there) or you could get a Mercededs Benz (sig).
Go to Europe and these cars are as common as any American car here.
You just pay for the provenance if you will.
Though the European cars are harder to work on and require special tools they are of a higher quality (excluding fiats, puegots opels etc.) than their American counterparts.
You could also go to the store and get a Hershey bar for $.75 or pay $2.00 for a tolberone bar. Even if it's made here you pay a premium for it being European.
Europeans tend to get paid...and taxed more than Americans, someone has to pay.
RussB
Member
Funny thing is HK's are relatively inexpensive in Europe, while M&P's are VERY expensive!
My question is, why care? If you can afford it, great. If you can't, no problem as there are a lot of less expensive options
My question is, why care? If you can afford it, great. If you can't, no problem as there are a lot of less expensive options
Because it's a sellers market and hk makes great products and have the right to charge an arm and leg. Sometimes you just have to pay for what you want and hk is one of those things. I must say though that out of all the gun makers hk probably has the best quality control. You just don't hear of the problems with their guns you hear from the others. And nobody can ever say hk isn't top notch quality even if they don't care for them. They hold value extremely well also. But at the end of the day a polymer gun is suppose to save cost because less machining ( not hk). I would love to have a p30 but at almost $1000 for a polymer handgun I just can't do it. They need to make a value line of pistols like everyone else does, at least in the $600 range
RussB
Member
Another important thing to consider is the scope and quantity of HK sales. There was an eye opening link posted here recently which gave the total production numbers from all the firearms manufacturers.
While S&W and Ruger both made 100's of 1,000's of each particular handgun model, HK's total US sales were only a few thousand units. With sales that low, a company needs to make a higher margin per unit to stay in business.
Also, HK has developed a reputation for excellent customer service, and that service costs money and is paid for from profits
While S&W and Ruger both made 100's of 1,000's of each particular handgun model, HK's total US sales were only a few thousand units. With sales that low, a company needs to make a higher margin per unit to stay in business.
Also, HK has developed a reputation for excellent customer service, and that service costs money and is paid for from profits
It's like asking why a Mercedes or a BMW cost more than a Honda. They all do the same thing, and increasingly over time, their differences become slimmer.
But guns like H&K and Sig really are built to a higher standard. A standard of design, materials and testing. Both of these brands have been selected by the most elite military personnel and are subjected to the most extreme and harsh environments with the full confidence that whether loaded with seawater, sand, mud or all of the above, they will always perform perfectly.
Building to these standards and, what is more costly, continuously testing against these standards are part of the cost.
Now, does the average civilian need any of these qualities? Not really. I don't tuck my USP in my wet suit when I go on a wall dive so it's quality, which we pay for when we buy one of them, is not really needed.
There actually may be other brands (Glock comes to mind) that can perform in these environments but for whatever reason, they are not chosen as often as H&K and Sig. Perhaps they're not as tough, perhaps Glock doesn't bother to test and prove their toughness.
Anyway, that's my take.
B
But guns like H&K and Sig really are built to a higher standard. A standard of design, materials and testing. Both of these brands have been selected by the most elite military personnel and are subjected to the most extreme and harsh environments with the full confidence that whether loaded with seawater, sand, mud or all of the above, they will always perform perfectly.
Building to these standards and, what is more costly, continuously testing against these standards are part of the cost.
Now, does the average civilian need any of these qualities? Not really. I don't tuck my USP in my wet suit when I go on a wall dive so it's quality, which we pay for when we buy one of them, is not really needed.
There actually may be other brands (Glock comes to mind) that can perform in these environments but for whatever reason, they are not chosen as often as H&K and Sig. Perhaps they're not as tough, perhaps Glock doesn't bother to test and prove their toughness.
Anyway, that's my take.
B
Good point Russ, but if hk wasn't such an expensive polymer gun there would probably be thousands of more hk sales. People just don't wanna fork out that kind of cash on a polymer pistol. Also over here in the US the middle class is the largest group and many can't afford or can't justify that kind coin on a handgun. Guns like glock and m&p don't sell because they're the best pistols, but because they are a good bang for your buck. You get a quality weapon for a relative low price. With hk you get a quality weapon for a higher price making it less of a bang for your buck. Even though they are great guns and I hold them highly I feel they should be in the $650 range
RussB
Member
jjones45,
Perhaps HK doesn't have the capacity to produce a lot of handguns?
Perhaps HK doesn't have the capacity to produce a lot of handguns?
oneounceload
member
They charge what they do because folks willingly pay their asking price. No more, no less.
Hometeached1
Member
I'm surprised no one has said because they hate us and we stink line yet.
Because they have the most hype
H&K charges the ridiculous prices because people are willing to pay that for them. My former agency was the first large U.S. agency to use the H&K USP Compact. The officer price was $50.00 less than the BERETTA 96D Brigadier we were then issuing.
Take an H&K apart and look at a GLOCK. The difference in cost IS NOT THERE. H&K has found that they can charge a premium for their reputation, that is all.
The H&K P2000 that I am now carrying has a recoil reducing device that is really nothing but a polymer cushion. It does work, but it cannot explain the difference in cost.
Pricing is not just about cost or engineering. It is also about marketing, hype and what people will pay. Also having a huge government contract allows you to drive up the price.
Jim
H&K charges the ridiculous prices because people are willing to pay that for them. My former agency was the first large U.S. agency to use the H&K USP Compact. The officer price was $50.00 less than the BERETTA 96D Brigadier we were then issuing.
Take an H&K apart and look at a GLOCK. The difference in cost IS NOT THERE. H&K has found that they can charge a premium for their reputation, that is all.
The H&K P2000 that I am now carrying has a recoil reducing device that is really nothing but a polymer cushion. It does work, but it cannot explain the difference in cost.
Pricing is not just about cost or engineering. It is also about marketing, hype and what people will pay. Also having a huge government contract allows you to drive up the price.
Jim
While I agree with marketing being a huge factor, hype only last so long and hk has been around for quite some time now and their guns have been tested in every aspect. With hk supplying arms to various military and LE agencies across the world I don't see why they wouldn't have the capacity to produce more. Just out of curiosity Russ what do hk's go for in Europe compared to m&p's?
RussB
Member
I don't remember the details...IIRC the info was posted at the HKPro forums. Heck, I've searched here looking for the batf production numbers and came up blank as well
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/09/02/hk-hate-you-import-export-laws-vs-people/
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/159165-specifics-hk-s-quality-control.html
^^ see post #5
also post #6
note that G3Kurz is/(was?) an insider.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/2668
^^ P30 test
http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027
^^ HK45 test
http://youtu.be/WDe9hm28s7c
^^ Mr. Colion Noir puts it very well
I could sit here and talk about durable this and shooting through that, mag compatibilities and operating systems similarities. In the end it ain't worth a steaming pile to you or anyone else's opinon. All I can say is this... I think they're worth it... to the tune of owning 4 so far, and probably buying as many (or more!) this year. And if my life is ever on the line where I need to point and fire... I want an HK in my hand.
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/159165-specifics-hk-s-quality-control.html
^^ see post #5
also post #6
note that G3Kurz is/(was?) an insider.
http://pistol-training.com/archives/2668
^^ P30 test
http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027
^^ HK45 test
http://youtu.be/WDe9hm28s7c
^^ Mr. Colion Noir puts it very well
I could sit here and talk about durable this and shooting through that, mag compatibilities and operating systems similarities. In the end it ain't worth a steaming pile to you or anyone else's opinon. All I can say is this... I think they're worth it... to the tune of owning 4 so far, and probably buying as many (or more!) this year. And if my life is ever on the line where I need to point and fire... I want an HK in my hand.
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sigarms228
Member
From Sota's link.
"The HK45 fired its first 31,522 rounds without a bobble of any kind, another pistol-training.com endurance test record. But the mere fact that it out-performed those other pistols tells only part of the story. I do not believe another .45 pistol could fire that many rounds, in that short a time, with that little maintenance, and survive. Anonymous internet chest-thumpers notwithstanding, fifty thousand rounds of full power 230gr ammo through a .45 pistol in eight months is staggering."
31,522 rounds FIRED before the first bobble with the HK45 - that is stunning!!
I own a HK45 and to me it is worth every penny.
It is hard to put a value on this kind of reliability and durability, especially for the typical shooter that shoots maybe a few boxes of ammo a year.
BTW one can get a new HK USP for under $800 and a new P30/P2000 for right around $800. Certainly not cheap but not what not what I would consider "well off" needs especially considering the price of ammo these days and an investment over several years of ownership.
HKs also tend to hold their value very well. If one gets a good price on a new HK they can usually turn it around for little loss if the need arises and certainly more than for what a new Glock goes for.
When one considers what one pays for fragile Chinese made iCrap and the data plans for such a new HK suddenly does not look too expensive LOL.
"The HK45 fired its first 31,522 rounds without a bobble of any kind, another pistol-training.com endurance test record. But the mere fact that it out-performed those other pistols tells only part of the story. I do not believe another .45 pistol could fire that many rounds, in that short a time, with that little maintenance, and survive. Anonymous internet chest-thumpers notwithstanding, fifty thousand rounds of full power 230gr ammo through a .45 pistol in eight months is staggering."
31,522 rounds FIRED before the first bobble with the HK45 - that is stunning!!
I own a HK45 and to me it is worth every penny.
It is hard to put a value on this kind of reliability and durability, especially for the typical shooter that shoots maybe a few boxes of ammo a year.
BTW one can get a new HK USP for under $800 and a new P30/P2000 for right around $800. Certainly not cheap but not what not what I would consider "well off" needs especially considering the price of ammo these days and an investment over several years of ownership.
HKs also tend to hold their value very well. If one gets a good price on a new HK they can usually turn it around for little loss if the need arises and certainly more than for what a new Glock goes for.
When one considers what one pays for fragile Chinese made iCrap and the data plans for such a new HK suddenly does not look too expensive LOL.
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A Timex watch will keep good time. So why pay more for a Seiko? Same type of question. That said, I admit I drink the HK Kool-Aid. After picking up the HK P30, I sold my G 19. Not knocking the Glock, it is a great firearm, but the P30 just works much better for me. YMMV. My EDC is an HK45c. Works great for my needs. And I paid under 900 for each, out the door from my LGS.
el Godfather
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Because they are simply the best!
I have been using their products for years.
I have been using their products for years.
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