H&R "Pardner" Pump
- Thread starter Realbigo
- Start date
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Word is they're quite serviceable, basically a Chinese copy of an 870, but the parts don't generally interchange -- though some can be easily modified to do so.
The question is, is it really that much cheaper than an 870 or 500, which have readily available parts and accessories?
I mean, if you want something inexpensive so you can oil it up, stash it and forget about it until the next Katrina (or, here, the next statewide wildfire) comes, it should do fine. But if you want a multipurpose gun, I'd consider paying a few bucks more for one of the common, inexpensive American pumps, just for aftermarket and replacement parts availability.
Just food for thought.
The question is, is it really that much cheaper than an 870 or 500, which have readily available parts and accessories?
I mean, if you want something inexpensive so you can oil it up, stash it and forget about it until the next Katrina (or, here, the next statewide wildfire) comes, it should do fine. But if you want a multipurpose gun, I'd consider paying a few bucks more for one of the common, inexpensive American pumps, just for aftermarket and replacement parts availability.
Just food for thought.
MAX100
Member
Here is the low down on the Pardner Pump:
The Pardner Pump & the Norinco 982 Pump are the same shotgun. The PP has a different style receiver and 98% of the Remington 870 accessories will fit these shotguns with no modifying needed. Most 870 parts will fit also: receiver stud, Fore end assembly, trigger group, mag tube caps, safety, ejector, extractor, firing pin. The PP & 982 has thick harden steel receiver. I drop my 982, by accident, and the receiver hit on a concrete edge with no damage only a little finish was missing.
The Norinco made PP shotguns are very well made that is why Remington-Marlin-H&R (same company) put their name on them and back them with their excellent warranty. I own both and have a lot of experience with them and they will hold to anything that you throw at them. I have about 3000 to 4000 rounds through my 982 over 5 years and have never had a problem with it. It will feed all of the cheap ammo that the 870 will choke on. Like the WalMart Winchester Value packs.
They have been imported into the US for 10 years now with tens of thousands sold. You hardly ever see anyone on the gun forums that post they are having problems with one. You hardly ever see that many used ones for sale. That means one thing people are happy with them.
Here is my custom Pardner Protector with some 870 accessories. No modifying had to be be done to any of them. This is one of my cool looking fun shotguns and it handles very well.
Vang 870 dome safety
Arms Tech 870 stock adapter
Hogue 870 fore end
King Armory Breacher Muzzle Brake - The shotgun patterns very well with this brake and muzzle flash is greatly diminished.
John Masen 870 heat shield
GUN CONNECTION 7+1 Mag tube ext which will also fit the 870
The Norinco 982. The same shotgun as the Pardner Pump with a different style receiver and a excellent set of ghost ring sights. The 7+1 tube extension is a add-on.
Standard Pardner Protector with a 7+1 tube extension a add-on.
GC
The Pardner Pump & the Norinco 982 Pump are the same shotgun. The PP has a different style receiver and 98% of the Remington 870 accessories will fit these shotguns with no modifying needed. Most 870 parts will fit also: receiver stud, Fore end assembly, trigger group, mag tube caps, safety, ejector, extractor, firing pin. The PP & 982 has thick harden steel receiver. I drop my 982, by accident, and the receiver hit on a concrete edge with no damage only a little finish was missing.
The Norinco made PP shotguns are very well made that is why Remington-Marlin-H&R (same company) put their name on them and back them with their excellent warranty. I own both and have a lot of experience with them and they will hold to anything that you throw at them. I have about 3000 to 4000 rounds through my 982 over 5 years and have never had a problem with it. It will feed all of the cheap ammo that the 870 will choke on. Like the WalMart Winchester Value packs.
They have been imported into the US for 10 years now with tens of thousands sold. You hardly ever see anyone on the gun forums that post they are having problems with one. You hardly ever see that many used ones for sale. That means one thing people are happy with them.
- Norinco has improved the 870 design as a tactical shotgun. It is whole lot of shotgun for the money.
- The Barrel locking lug is in a better location. Being higher up it is a stronger setup. Their is no need for a mag tube clamp with a 3.5" tube extension because it is shorter. Also plenty of room to put a rail mount for a flashlight or sling mount.
- Better shell lifter design - no need for a flexi tab add-on
- Hardened high carbon thicker steel receiver
- Metal trigger guard
- Parkerize finish
- Machined extractor
- 982 has a excellent set of ghost ring sights that would cost almost as much as the shotgun if you had to buy a set after market.
Here is my custom Pardner Protector with some 870 accessories. No modifying had to be be done to any of them. This is one of my cool looking fun shotguns and it handles very well.
Vang 870 dome safety
Arms Tech 870 stock adapter
Hogue 870 fore end
King Armory Breacher Muzzle Brake - The shotgun patterns very well with this brake and muzzle flash is greatly diminished.
John Masen 870 heat shield
GUN CONNECTION 7+1 Mag tube ext which will also fit the 870
The Norinco 982. The same shotgun as the Pardner Pump with a different style receiver and a excellent set of ghost ring sights. The 7+1 tube extension is a add-on.
Standard Pardner Protector with a 7+1 tube extension a add-on.
GC
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Der Verge
Member
I have to voice a little opinion here. What little more a true 870 costs over the Chinese knock off, it is money well spent to help a fellow American keep his/her job. If you shop the specials, a 870 can still be had for $250. Hell, you can get a 500 combo 28"vr and 23" rifled cantilever for $300.
My thoughts, too.
Even if you don't care about the jobs, or supporting the Chinese military, or whatever, I don't see all that much sense in buying a knockoff for close to the price of the real thing -- especially when Remingtons and Mossbergs have so many barrels that are so readily available.
MAX100
Member
Der Verge If you really want to do some good don't buy guns from companies that are part for importing well made shotguns from China.
Cerberus Capital-Remington-Bushmaster-Marling-H&R-NEF = Hawk ind. imported H&R Pardner Pump made in China by Norinco.
The one who posted this thread just wants to know if these shotguns are good or not.
GC
Cerberus Capital-Remington-Bushmaster-Marling-H&R-NEF = Hawk ind. imported H&R Pardner Pump made in China by Norinco.
The one who posted this thread just wants to know if these shotguns are good or not.
GC
Der Verge
Member
I bought mine before Cerberus purchased the lot. I buy solely Savage long arms now. Union built here in the USA.
As for weather or not the Pardners are good or not, my opinion would be "no".
As for weather or not the Pardners are good or not, my opinion would be "no".
MAX100
Member
What is your experience with these guns. You can't make a statement like that and not give reasons why. I gave details on why they are a better tactical shotgun than the 870. Tell where I am wrong.
These shotguns are not new on the seen. They have been imported into the USA for 10 years now with tens of thousands sold. You never see any post on these shotguns having any problems. You always see post on the 870 with FTF problems.
The big chain stores have been selling them for years. They don't continue to carry guns they have problems with because they loose money on them. I have sold over hundred of them and never had one to come back on me.
GC
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
MAx, in the interests of fairness and full disclosure, do you not sell the Chinese knockoffs?....
gregormeister
Member
I myself have a 28" 12 guage Pardner Pump I got when I got out of the military and was broke. As far as I'm concerned it may be an import but it has been good to me the last 2 years. I have no complaints...
I was just looking a little info, not to start an arguement here. The deal is I'm looking to get a decently made shotty to run around 200 rounds of buck through, and then i'm going to give it to my GFriend and her two roomies(along w/abox of reduced recoil shells) to protect their new house. In my neck of the woods, I haven't seen either an 870, or a Moss 500/590 for less than $400. Thanks for the info Max. I appreciate
the rest of your opinions, on allthings China, but FYI the last thing I bought at Wallyworld was case of Win Birdshot just in case it got nasty after a hurricane last year. I do my damndest not to give the ChiComs a penny, but in this case my loved ones safety trumps my Ideals.
the rest of your opinions, on allthings China, but FYI the last thing I bought at Wallyworld was case of Win Birdshot just in case it got nasty after a hurricane last year. I do my damndest not to give the ChiComs a penny, but in this case my loved ones safety trumps my Ideals.
MAX100
Member
I posted that I sale them. I also sale Remington 870 Express and make more on a 870 sale. I can't compete with the big chain store prices on the Norinco shotguns.
I also own a Norinco 982 and a Pardner Pump. I don't personally own a 870 because I like the the Chinese version better as a Tactical shotgun. I like the mag tube setup on the Norinco 982 and all it offers for a much better price. As hunting shotgun the changes made to the 870 makes no difference.
Try one and come back and give you honest opinion of it.
When someone comes in looking for a an 870 I don't tell them to buy a Pardner Pump. Remington 870 fans are very loyal. If someone comes in looking for a low cost shotgun or ask about the Pardner Pump I tell them they are a hell of a deal, and why.
GC
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Der Verge
Member
I refuse to try one because I would rather feed an American family instead of a Communist one.
Secondly, 99% of the failure to feed problems on 870 is operator error. People fail to "pump" the gun far enough. This was very noticeable with the onset of the "magnum" receiver. The 870 super mags also got slammed with the FTF problem. It was simply people not used to the extra 1/2" of throw.
Max, I was simply stating my opinion earlier. I am surprised you got so upset. Even still, if your opinion is that a stolen design manufactured in another country is better, so be it. Hell, if you like all things Chinese, why don't you move there? Or better yet, why not let Realbigo read these posts and opinions, and decide for himself.
Secondly, 99% of the failure to feed problems on 870 is operator error. People fail to "pump" the gun far enough. This was very noticeable with the onset of the "magnum" receiver. The 870 super mags also got slammed with the FTF problem. It was simply people not used to the extra 1/2" of throw.
Max, I was simply stating my opinion earlier. I am surprised you got so upset. Even still, if your opinion is that a stolen design manufactured in another country is better, so be it. Hell, if you like all things Chinese, why don't you move there? Or better yet, why not let Realbigo read these posts and opinions, and decide for himself.
MAX100
Member
Der Verge You are the one getting upset. There tens of thousands of these Norinco shotguns sold. You hardly ever see any post on them with problems. I have only seen two post in the last few years of someone having a problem with one and the problems were miner.
When thread posts are made on the 870 I never suggest that someone should buy a Pardner Pump over a 870. Every time someone makes a post on the Pardner Pump or the Norinco 982 all you hear is "Get an 870". As the OP stated he knows about the 870 and what it offers, as most do. He wants to know about the PP.
You say the PP is no good knowing you know nothing about them. If you had some experience with them you would have provided some info to back up your statement.
Why would I move to China. I love my country, maybe even more than you do.
GC
When thread posts are made on the 870 I never suggest that someone should buy a Pardner Pump over a 870. Every time someone makes a post on the Pardner Pump or the Norinco 982 all you hear is "Get an 870". As the OP stated he knows about the 870 and what it offers, as most do. He wants to know about the PP.
You say the PP is no good knowing you know nothing about them. If you had some experience with them you would have provided some info to back up your statement.
Why would I move to China. I love my country, maybe even more than you do.
GC
exoduster18
Member
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2005
- Messages
- 328
I generally don't jump into things like this but...
I know nothing of the PP or the Norincos....simply because they are not made in the USA. I have no interest in them as a result of that fact. I have handled the PPs only a rare few times. They felt good in my hands when I did. They seemed like they could do the job adequately, which is to shoot. The parts/accessories commonality is a bonus that I did not know about...
However, we, as do all people, almost always try to find a cheaper alternative to something. MAX100 has just presented the facts on what the PP or the Norinco are.
From what I have gathered from MAX100, he doesn't discourage the sales of the 870 nor does he discouorage the sales of the Norinco or Pardner Pump. They are what they are....the Norinco or the PP being a cheaper alternative of the grand ole 870.
I feel that if you were looking for a good "beater/truck" gun (or even an HD gun that would be easily modifiable for HD), then you would be hard pressed to find a cheaper alternative than the Norinco or PP at roughly the same quality. Yes, they are knock-offs of the 870, but just as MAX100 stated, the company slapping their logo on the gun is not going to let the quality suffer, especially when their reputation rests on the quality names they are known for.
When I was in college, I just about bought PP because I needed a good HD gun that could take a beating. I do now own an 870 because I am completely brand loyal to Remington. I personally have not found another manufacturer of arms that builds to the quality as Remington does. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!! I AM NOT STATING THIS AS FACT, SO PLEASE DO NOT GET HUNG UP ON IT!!! Do I support sending money to China? No, I do not. But understand that my self preservation instinct is greater than American businesses out-sourcing things to other countries.
How this came to be a rant on Pro-America or Pro-China has nothing to with the original poster's question on whether the PP would be a good buy or not.
I feel that we should do anything (within legal means) to further a pro-gun mindset. This includes buying guns, whether you feel that they may be cheaply made or not. What you state as fact might only be someone else's opinion!!
And my opinion is that you should purchase what you have the means to purchase, and if that happens to be a Chinese knock off that may or may not be built to a high level a quality, then you should buy it. Ultimately, it all depends on what you feel at the time. If it feels like quality to you and you think that it will serve you well, then buy it. I personally think that you should buy it. If I hade the extra money right now, I'd go buy one with you.....LOL.
I know nothing of the PP or the Norincos....simply because they are not made in the USA. I have no interest in them as a result of that fact. I have handled the PPs only a rare few times. They felt good in my hands when I did. They seemed like they could do the job adequately, which is to shoot. The parts/accessories commonality is a bonus that I did not know about...
However, we, as do all people, almost always try to find a cheaper alternative to something. MAX100 has just presented the facts on what the PP or the Norinco are.
From what I have gathered from MAX100, he doesn't discourage the sales of the 870 nor does he discouorage the sales of the Norinco or Pardner Pump. They are what they are....the Norinco or the PP being a cheaper alternative of the grand ole 870.
I feel that if you were looking for a good "beater/truck" gun (or even an HD gun that would be easily modifiable for HD), then you would be hard pressed to find a cheaper alternative than the Norinco or PP at roughly the same quality. Yes, they are knock-offs of the 870, but just as MAX100 stated, the company slapping their logo on the gun is not going to let the quality suffer, especially when their reputation rests on the quality names they are known for.
When I was in college, I just about bought PP because I needed a good HD gun that could take a beating. I do now own an 870 because I am completely brand loyal to Remington. I personally have not found another manufacturer of arms that builds to the quality as Remington does. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!! I AM NOT STATING THIS AS FACT, SO PLEASE DO NOT GET HUNG UP ON IT!!! Do I support sending money to China? No, I do not. But understand that my self preservation instinct is greater than American businesses out-sourcing things to other countries.
How this came to be a rant on Pro-America or Pro-China has nothing to with the original poster's question on whether the PP would be a good buy or not.
I feel that we should do anything (within legal means) to further a pro-gun mindset. This includes buying guns, whether you feel that they may be cheaply made or not. What you state as fact might only be someone else's opinion!!
And my opinion is that you should purchase what you have the means to purchase, and if that happens to be a Chinese knock off that may or may not be built to a high level a quality, then you should buy it. Ultimately, it all depends on what you feel at the time. If it feels like quality to you and you think that it will serve you well, then buy it. I personally think that you should buy it. If I hade the extra money right now, I'd go buy one with you.....LOL.
MAX100
Member
Yes, the muzzle brake comes 6-48 tapped for a bead sight. I put a HIVIZ Spark 2 sight on it. The bbl was shorten a 1 1/2" and the brake was internal welded one. The brake adds 2" to the length so the bbl is now 19" long and has 7+1 capacity with tube ext.
If you want to put a HIVIZ sight on your PP you will have to have the hole drilled larger and tapped. I believe most Gunsmith will charge about $25 and the sight is sold at WalMart for about $6.
The 982 is a better deal if you like GRS.
I would like to see Remington come out with a Tactical 870 shotgun that has the same mag tube setup as the Norinco 982. They could call it the 880. It is a pain to find a way to mount a flashlight on a 870. Any mount has to be placed on the mag tube and removed each time you break down the shotgun. The same thing goes for the 870 factory mag tube clamp. I would like to see Remington and Norinco add more threaded tube length for a mag tube extension to screw onto. With only about 1/4" of threaded tube length it is not a stable setup if you add a sling plate between the tube ext and barrel locking lug. Mossberg got that right on there 590, 835, 930 & 935 shotguns.
GC
Why doesn't anybody get on Sig's case for making 1911 clones? The patent on the 1911 expired just like the patent for the 870 did. The federal government wouldn't let those shotguns in if they were infringing on one of Remington's copyrights.
You can call them a copy, a clone, a knock off, a rip off, or whatever else makes you feel good about not owning one, but the bottom line is that patents expire which increases innovation. That innovation is good for consumers. If anybody has an issue with that, by all means address your concerns with your elected representatives to have the laws overturned. Don't be surprised when you can't buy a generic bottle of aspirin for $5 anymore though.
You can call them a copy, a clone, a knock off, a rip off, or whatever else makes you feel good about not owning one, but the bottom line is that patents expire which increases innovation. That innovation is good for consumers. If anybody has an issue with that, by all means address your concerns with your elected representatives to have the laws overturned. Don't be surprised when you can't buy a generic bottle of aspirin for $5 anymore though.
Buy American! I've stated my thoughts here before so I won't get too detailed but how many of your jobs are going overseas? Buy Ruger, an all American company! I just wish they made pumps. In the meantime I buy 50 year old Winchesters and Remingtons.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
Thanks for the clarification, Max.
I have no particular wish to try the ChiCom pumps, or anything else made by the Chinese army. More importantly, I doubt the clone guns will do anything my 870s will not.
A new clone for say $225, or a used WM for the same?
I know which one I'd tell a new shooter to get....
I have no particular wish to try the ChiCom pumps, or anything else made by the Chinese army. More importantly, I doubt the clone guns will do anything my 870s will not.
A new clone for say $225, or a used WM for the same?
I know which one I'd tell a new shooter to get....
Tomac
Member
A few years ago I bought a couple of Hawk 870 clones as starter/beater shotguns for my son & his best friend. Since then they've had hundreds of rds of everything from 3" magnum slugs to the cheap WallyWorld lowbase my 870P would choke on. After all that abuse they're still going strong (ugly, but still going strong...) So, I picked up a Pardner Pump Protector for myself and so far it's as solid & reliable as the Hawks.
Tomac
PS- No, I don't sell shotguns of any kind...
Here's mine w/a fiber optic bead, 4 shot Sidesaddle & TLR-1 taclight:
Tomac
PS- No, I don't sell shotguns of any kind...
Here's mine w/a fiber optic bead, 4 shot Sidesaddle & TLR-1 taclight:
rbernie
Contributing Member
In the last six months, I've bought four (4) used 870s; two in 12ga and two in 20ga. Three were purchased from an online auction. None cost me, including transfer and shipping fees, more than $200.
Given that, it does not MATTER to me how well the Nork's do. In the end, it's simple economics - I can get a lightly used shotgun with a known pedigree and with a plethora of aftermarket support for the same price as a NIB shotgun with an unknown pedigree (shoot 250K rounds thru a Nork and tell me how the receiver looks, and then I may believe that the Nork's receivers are equal or better to an 870). Sell a used Nork down the road and tell me how well it held value, or how quickly it sold.....
I'm not naturally a luddite, but I'll gravitate towards the proven quantity every time, presuming that the economics support it. And the price point of the Norinco-made shotguns is too close to that of the used market for an 870 to make it worth my while.
Given that, it does not MATTER to me how well the Nork's do. In the end, it's simple economics - I can get a lightly used shotgun with a known pedigree and with a plethora of aftermarket support for the same price as a NIB shotgun with an unknown pedigree (shoot 250K rounds thru a Nork and tell me how the receiver looks, and then I may believe that the Nork's receivers are equal or better to an 870). Sell a used Nork down the road and tell me how well it held value, or how quickly it sold.....
I'm not naturally a luddite, but I'll gravitate towards the proven quantity every time, presuming that the economics support it. And the price point of the Norinco-made shotguns is too close to that of the used market for an 870 to make it worth my while.
contender
Member
i am seriously considering the pardner pump at this time...
I fully understand the "buy American" way of thinking and wanting to feed American families, but the number one family I want to kept fed is my own and if that means saving a hundred dollars buying the h&r over the express then so be it.
Don't know what its like in other places, but around here, used wing masters you can't touch for under $250----and I'm talking old slick barrel fixed choke guns. The 870 is highly respected and in demand around here and the prices reflect that on the used gun market.
The h&r goes for around 180 new which makes it a tremondous savings compared to any new or used remingtons and that is money saved for my family.
Remington does not give a care about American workers as they continue to import "cheaper" brands under the "spartan" label. And since remington now esentialy owns H&R, I have not heard of any plans by remington to discontinue the importation of the pardner pump to protect the express.
Now that have vented on all of the "politics" (we do tend to feed on ourselves at times), I think the only way this thing can get answered for sure would be a shoot till destruction side by side test. Settle the issues of quality vs price, function vs performance and see what happens. Politics does not affect a guns performance or tells you anything. A side by side quality/endurance test to show which gives you more bang for your buck will.
Take an h&r pardner pump and a remington express and a pickup load of shells and see which one tells the tale.....I ain't gonna do it as i'm too poor.
So until that happens, I will have to depend on the opinions of others. And so far the opinion on the H&R as far as function and getting the job done has been as every bit as good as the remington express-----politics aside........
kind of reminds me of the old arguments about belgium brownings vs japanese brownings....
I fully understand the "buy American" way of thinking and wanting to feed American families, but the number one family I want to kept fed is my own and if that means saving a hundred dollars buying the h&r over the express then so be it.
Don't know what its like in other places, but around here, used wing masters you can't touch for under $250----and I'm talking old slick barrel fixed choke guns. The 870 is highly respected and in demand around here and the prices reflect that on the used gun market.
The h&r goes for around 180 new which makes it a tremondous savings compared to any new or used remingtons and that is money saved for my family.
Remington does not give a care about American workers as they continue to import "cheaper" brands under the "spartan" label. And since remington now esentialy owns H&R, I have not heard of any plans by remington to discontinue the importation of the pardner pump to protect the express.
Now that have vented on all of the "politics" (we do tend to feed on ourselves at times), I think the only way this thing can get answered for sure would be a shoot till destruction side by side test. Settle the issues of quality vs price, function vs performance and see what happens. Politics does not affect a guns performance or tells you anything. A side by side quality/endurance test to show which gives you more bang for your buck will.
Take an h&r pardner pump and a remington express and a pickup load of shells and see which one tells the tale.....I ain't gonna do it as i'm too poor.
So until that happens, I will have to depend on the opinions of others. And so far the opinion on the H&R as far as function and getting the job done has been as every bit as good as the remington express-----politics aside........
kind of reminds me of the old arguments about belgium brownings vs japanese brownings....
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