Had a convo with my two very good LEO friends

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Z

ZombieHunter

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Maryland...A Brady Bill Top 5 State /puke
Who knew they were anti-CCW?

I gave up right after the girlfriend to my bestfriend informed me she basically thought the streets would run red with blood because all those people legally carrying guns would just start shooting cops who gave them tickets >.<:banghead:

I tried to explain through use of stats that this doesn't happen to which she replied "I don't care about statistics." Then I asked about her stance on abortion, we agreed on being pro-choice. Then I asked how she can reconcile that decision with her belief women shouldn't be allowed the means to fight off a rapist. She went back to her fear based argument and again informed me she didn't care about stats. :banghead: My bestfriend/her boyfriend snickered when I asked her if she didn't care about facts too then?

Then I ate my steak. We all agreed they were good steaks.
 
"Why argue the point? Everyone is entitled to their beliefs."

I actually don't agree. I think people are entitled to beliefs that are not completely illogical. Want to believe the sky is plaid? Too bad, facts are against you. People don't get to believe in anything willy nilly and expect to be able to hide behind defenses of "it is my belief" or "it is my opinion." I don't have to agree with the logic and/or proof, but there has to be at least some of either.
 
I've never failed to win over a open minded intelligent anti-gun person.
But there are few of them because if they were open minded they wouldn't be anti-gun.

If the person is closed minded you may as well talk to the wall because facts mean nothing to them and they will just keep falling back on stupid statements like "I don't care about statistics", because they don't have intelligent arguments.

With some of these people I have told them something like, "OK I'm just wasting my time with you because you are just too stupid to talk to".
Sometime this will make them open up and try to convince me I'm wrong.
Then I've got them.:D
 
"Why argue the point? Everyone is entitled to their beliefs."

That doesn't mean you can't have an intelligent discussion with the person to try to help them take a logically sound position with the intent of changing said illogical beliefs.

You are your brother's keeper. And that makes sense even if you don't believe in anything.
 
Ask her to defend her statement...
the streets would run red with blood because all those people legally carrying guns would just start shooting cops who gave them tickets
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Ask for an example of when this happened or anything to confirm this statement as being true. If she doesn't care about your stats then make her come up with some of her own. Tell her to get back to you when she has any kind of proof, then you will be able to eat steaks for the rest of your life without stupid illogical arguements from her!:D

My point is don't let her put the burden of proof on you, the 2A is on your side, make her prove her arguement.
 
You should not be suprised, I have several LEO friends and associates and a suprising majority are anti-gun, anti-ccw, anti-4th and 5th amendment, FOR EVERYONE BUT THEMSELVES OF COURSE. MY favorite is the local sheriff, he promised to sign CLEO letters and support gun owners,,,right up until the first Wednsday in November.


Most of law enforcement believes in special rights for themselves, that should not be suprising. Most of them think we are all criminals and lets face it, the way they write laws these days, everyone is guilty of something and most people have no idea what they are doing wrong.


Somewhere in the internet is a clip from a professor at Regents college on why you should not talk to the police ever,,,it is well worth watching.
 
You can't fix stupid.
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Pretty much. You might be able to get through to them, but it's unlikely. The fact that they're cops (and the girlfriends of cops) probably has them a little bit...insulated from the realities of things. I'd venture a guess that at least one of your cop friends is fairly young, or at least young in the job. Probably hasn't seen all that much, and probably hasn't had the experiences that an older cop has, that usually allows them to see the other, more realistic side of things.

On another note - where'd ya'll go for steaks? I'm always on the lookout for a decent place to eat. :D
 
I have trouble being "friends" with people who are totally illogical. What do you talk about the rest of the time, other than steaks ???

I used to think most people were pretty intelligent, and then I started to realize that I just tend to gravitate towards smart people. Fifty percent of people are below average intelligence, and "average" just ain't that smart :uhoh:
 
I'm with TallPine. Life is too short to spend it in the company of friends that don't have the same core beliefs I do.
 
Inform her that SCOTUS decided a few years back that cops aren't responsible for her well being. And cite the case, I can't remember the name.

Better yet, give her a printed copy of the case, and then that 87 page PDF on "Gun Facts" that's floating around the interweb.
 
my dad always said there's two arguments you will never win, religion and politics. if someone has questions about my views i will of course discuss it, but trying to push something on them that they don't believe in will only end in anger and hurt relationships.
 
Eightball-

The most recent one was Castle Rock v. Gonzales...... there is a much older one from D.C., that I don't rmember the name of offhand...

ZH-"I tried to explain through use of stats that this doesn't happen to which she replied "I don't care about statistics." Ask her if she cares about you. Her LEO boyfriend can Carry. YOU, However, are on your own. Does she think that you would kill her boyfriend because he gave you a ticket? If so, back away, slowly, as she is bat**** nuts, and may ask one of the priveledged only ones to end you, pre-emptively.....

I'm with TallPine: Avoid irrational people.
 
I'm with TallPine. Life is too short to spend it in the company of friends that don't have the same core beliefs I do.
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We have NO friends who are anti-gun. Will never have friends who are anti-gun.

The number of even mere acquaintances we know that are anti-gun continues to shrink.

We also have zero friends OR acquaintances in law enforcement that are anti-gun or anti-CCW. After I get through dressing them down, and then publicly humiliating them with my Shooting Challenge, they want nothing to do with us.

Which suits us just damn well fine. They're a disgrace to their uniform, badge and oath and I refuse to even be associated with them.

Jeff
 
I gave up right after the girlfriend to my bestfriend informed me she basically thought the streets would run red with blood because all those people legally carrying guns would just start shooting cops who gave them tickets
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I can see why that would be awful. Perhaps the cops could prevent that problem by executing everyone to whom they give a ticket.

On the other hand, since people who carry guns legally tend to be people who usually don't kill cops, maybe they won't kill those who give them tickets either.
 
I have several LEO friends and associates and a suprising majority are anti-gun,
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Actually, a lot of police organizations, (IALEFI, ILEETA, others, there is a list on the SCOTUS site) filed amicus briefs "friends of the Court" in SUPPORT of the 2A and were happy about the Heller Decision.
 
I actually don't agree. I think people are entitled to beliefs that are not completely illogical. Want to believe the sky is plaid? Too bad, facts are against you. People don't get to believe in anything willy nilly and expect to be able to hide behind defenses of "it is my belief" or "it is my opinion." I don't have to agree with the logic and/or proof, but there has to be at least some of either.
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+1

I used to have a signature quote that said, "Perception is not reality. Reality is reality."

I've also used one from John Derbyshire, ""Reality doesn't go away just because you stop believing in it."

A person is free to believe that the sky is plaid. Freedom of Speech guarantees the right to tell everyone that the sky is plaid without fear that the government will stop you.

But Freedom of Speech also guarantees other people the right to tell you, "That's wrong, the sky is blue," and to laugh at you if you persist in declaring that the sky is plaid.

Belief persisted in despite proof that the truth is otherwise is commonly known as "delusion". People may have the right to be deluded, but they do not have the right to require others to support them in their delusions.
 
TexasSkyhawk

Which suits us just damn well fine. They're a disgrace to their uniform, badge and oath and I refuse to even be associated with them.
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God bless you.

It is a rare thing indeed to hear that said from a cop.

On the main point, Don't bother arguing with an anti, especially a female anti. You'll only lose your cool trying to be logical with someone who hasn't the capacity for logic. The anti, particularly the female variety, will lose her cool trying to make you understand that she doesn't want to be confused with a bunch of facts...she knows how she FEELS!

She won't feel any differently until she faces a lethal confrontation herself. Very often then, she would feel the need to have possession of a gun, but she would still FEEL like all those other people out there shouldn't have them. This shows a distinct psychosis. The anti, he or she, lives in fear...often times on the edge of panic. The thought of anyone having the tools or knowledge to do things the anti cannot do, is maddening, even terrifying. Thus everyone else needs to be emasculated to make the anti feel better. They see Government as Benevolent Daddy. Daddy will make every one equally impotent and the anti can feel better.

Is it a surprise, then, that some cops who live in jurisdictions where this is the majority opinion, have an "only ones" mentality?
 
People don't get to believe in anything willy nilly and expect to be able to hide behind defenses of "it is my belief" or "it is my opinion."
Click to expand...
Yes they do (and it's also called theories). Just because you don't believe in their reasoning doesn't mean they don't have a right to believe in it. At one time it was a willy nilly notion that the world was round because it was a known fact that it was flat.
 
I admit I live pretty far out in the boonies, but considering there are no restrictions on carrying(open or concealed), the local LEOs seem pretty unconcerned over the possibility of the streets running red with their blood. I think the last LEO shootings, around here, were over in N.H., and they have pretty heavy restrictions, compared to Vermont anyway.:what:

You really can't debate a point with someone who refuses to allow the facts to confuse them.:banghead:
 
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