Hand Gun choice for Vac in Alaska

[bassdogs]

Just ordered ammo from Buffalo Bore for both the 357 and 45 Judge as suggested by other posters. Understand that neither of these revolvers are optimal for Alaskan bears, but they are what I own and am comfortable with. The 357 mag ammo is the heavy 180 grain solid density and the 45 is standard pressure 225 grain solid density wadcutter, both from buffalo bore. Still working on the short barrel 12 g. and will pick up the bear spray upon arrival. Also having a good belt made for the holster of my 357 colt trooper mark III.

Want to thank all, especially the members from the great state of Alaska, for their comments. I believe that those who live it are the ones who give the best advice.

Now just as a precaution and the fact that my choice of weapons [at least the handguns] are on the very low end and not recommended by most for bear; WHAT IS THE RECOMMENDED POINT OF AIM, should an attack take place? Realizing that this would all happen in a heart beat, its still always best to have a target rather than just throw lead. Each and every round has to go where it has the best chance of success.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Straight through the nose has the least bone between you and the bears brain. And... if the bear is coming at you, the nose is the center of mass - the head will be low and surrounded by lots of bear.

 

[fl2ak]

As I don't actually hunt bears myself, I don't know enough about their anatomy to advise on this one, but let me know how those buff bore rounds shoot in your 357; I am thinking of buying a box for my lever gun just to keep around cabin.

PS: speaking of ammo, bring your own ammo up with you (you can carry up to 4 pounds in checked baggage); ammunition (of every type and caliber-even 22LR) is comparatively expensive up here. The low end yellow/green box Remington and low end Winchester runs about $3 a box more than in the lower 48 and the better hunting cartridges (as in with Nosler or Barnes bullets) are even more of a price difference. I always bring ammo up with me when I visit the Lower 48.

Oh, last thing I just thought of, a good friend who always carries a 44 uses a shoulder holster that also holds 2 speed loaders (Eagle Creek is the manufacturer I think). The advantage there is that it works better with hip waders, and you can fish in deeper water while still keeping your gun dry. I've carried his rig canoeing, and the only other thing I added was a neck lanyard (similar to what the Brits and Canadian military used in the World Wars) as a last piece of safety. (If I ever get around to buying the Taurus Tracker I want, I'm having a lanyard loop added to the butt before I take it home.)

 

[Carne Frio]

Alaska Airlines and federal regulation allow for 11 pounds of ammo.
I also bring up hard to find ammo on every return trip.

 

[fl2ak]

That must be a very new modification; when I flew in May, it was 4 lbs. That's awesome news to hear, because 60 rounds of 30-06 takes up your 4 pounds.

 

[Cosmoline]

Are moose a threat in September?

Moose are always a potential threat, more so in mating season though. But PLEASE don't shoot our moose! 99.9999% of the encounters are not hostile and even if one charges you, running off and dodging is the best defense. If you shoot one it's not going to die for a minute or so and will still have time to trample you. And it will almost certainly be unnecessary.

There was a fatal incident at UAA years ago but the victim waltzed right up to a highly agitated cow with calves. I've been charged many times and running plus dodging is the best defense. Even when a bull had tines pointed at me and hackels up, when I jumped off into the devil's club he ran past. Everyone here gets charged eventually. It's usually a cow huffing and stomping towards you, and she just wants you gone so you get gone. Standing your ground and shooting her is not kosher.

Besides, the legal implications of shooting a MOOSE are quite distinct from shooting a BEAR. Everybody gets charged by moose here, we live with them. And people eat them so a moose you shoot is a moose that won't be on the table. Shooting a moose in alleged DLP is a lot closer to poaching. Or like shooting someone's prized bull because it charges you.

I can see only two true justifications for moose shooting in DLP--if it's charging a child or if it's actually kicking you.

It's just the spice of life around here.

 

[KodiakBeer]

Read this thread and try to understand how quickly bear attacks unfold. If a brown/grizzly decides to take you down it happens in the blink of an eye and without warning. They don't puff up and and roar at you, they don't give you any warning at all. If you feel safer wearing a handgun in camp then go for it, but really, the way it happens is that you'll hear some breaking brush and turn to see a bear rushing you from 15 or 20 yards away. They move at 40 miles per hour. You won't have time to draw a handgun.

The bear that does puff up and roar at you isn't a real threat. He's like a rattlesnake telling you not to get any closer. So don't get any closer, just back away slowly and you'll be fine. Real attacks don't happen like that and that's not just my experience, it's the experience of many people I've talked to who have experienced the real deal. Forget the handguns.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=601117

 

[Cosmoline]

The bear that does puff up and roar at you isn't a real threat. He's like a rattlesnake telling you not to get any closer.

Well, the agitated bear is a real threat, but he's a threat that can usually be avoided. There have been incidents when folks ignore the warnings or get in the wrong spot at the wrong time with an agitated sow. The fellow who lost his eyes a few years back was one. Or folks on mountain bikes moving too fast to notice the huffing sow who got knocked around.

 

[06]

My two oldest sons are headed to Alaska this fall. Sending them a Casull and a S&W 50. They will be near Ft. Wainwright and hopefully away from bear concentrations.

 

[Mike1234567]

My two oldest sons are headed to Alaska this fall. Sending them a Casull and a S&W 50. They will be near Ft. Wainwright and hopefully away from bear concentrations.

Off the top of my head those would be my choices as well.

 

[Prosser]

We have handguns that kill like .375 H&H rifles. For instance, .500JRH, 500 S&
@, .500 Linebaugh, both small and maximum, and the .475 Linebaughs.
You can buy a .475 Linebaugh from BFR for under a 1000 dollars, and, will have an excellent, portable, packable gun for Alaska.

Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

The National Park folks recommend a .458 Winchester rifle as number one, with the .375 H&H and 12 gauge with the right slugs a bit further down the list.

Two BIG bears taken by guys from around here both took 11 rounds of .375 H&H
to finally stop moving, each.

For perspective:




These are NOT pitbulls.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

If you have a shotgun, I'd bring it along with slugs. If not, I'd bring you biggest caliber rifle. Failing that, if all own are handguns, I'd go with the biggest one and shoot +P solids from someone like buffalo bore. If you want to get something new, I'd go with a 44 magnum myself as a back up. You can practice with 44 special loads. Also, I would definately practice. Only hits count.

 

[Shadow 7D]

Kodiak can expound on this if he chooses, but I for one don't suggest a HANDGUN, if you wish something that size,

BEAR SPRAY
as it is PROVEN MORE effective than handguns...

really, bear spray and a proper sense of paranoia will do you more good than blasting some poor bear you happen upon.
and don't forget your Bear Bells...

 

[cerberus arms]

the 45 cal Glock should do the job..

 

[Cryogaijin]

the 45 cal Glock should do the job..

No.

Bear are big tough animals. You want something that has a high sectional density for good penetration. .45acp is not it.

 

[bassdogs]

Kodiak B - Wow, just went thru your thread on the attack. I knew I was hearing from someone with experience but had based that on where you live and the nature of your comments. Your story puts a whole new and quite vivid perspective to your feedback to my questions. I know I have to sound like a 12 year old cub scout when I think about the naive nature of the thread I started. We all have to start from where are and I'm just a return visitor from the midwest. With that said, I at least had the foresight to reach out for advice concerning our return visit. While others have provided helpful advice, your unique experience brings the whole subject of SD in bear country to a high-definition quality perspective. Thanks for sharing all and I have received more than I ever could have hoped for when I started this thread.

Getting back to my initial question now, I totally understand the inadequate nature of the 357 and 45 even with the heavy loads that I have ordered. I will however have accomplished my objective in having an option other than throwing rocks and rolling up in a ball however ineffective that option may prove to be. Clearly the answer to all of this is to be smart and do everything to avoid surprising a big bear, creating an environment in camp that would attract one, and the best defenses to increase your odds should an incident occur. Avoidance is clearly the #1 - #10 best advice. A gun response is well down the line and is something to be avoided almost at any cost. My wife and I have about 6 weeks before heading north. We will use that time to think about all that has been said and developing a strategy relative to what we have learned from this thread. Practice practice practice in getting that gun in hand and on target so that we have at least a fighting chance in the rare event of an incident.

Now moving on to finding the best way to ship the bear spray back as I am hopeful of not having to deploy it on the trip. Hate to spend $100 and have to leave it behind. We have bears in the neighboring smokey mountains where we visit often.

 

[Mike1234567]

the 45 cal Glock should do the job..

A .45 ACP against huge bear?? Not me!!

BTW, frankly, I'm getting a bit tired of all this "Glock Love". They're good firearms but, come on, they aren't "All That", IMHO.

 

[KodiakBeer]

the 45 cal Glock should do the job..

Yeah, sure...

 

[KodiakBeer]

Bassdogs, don't let bearanoia spoil your Alaska trip. Just make sure your shotgun has slugs that shoot to point of aim. And there's nothing wrong with having a handgun around especially in camp, and in the environs of Los Anchorage.

The odds are very low that you will have any problems more serious than some bear nosing around your campsite.

 

[jollyroger36]

Alaska trip

First problem is how to get it there.
Next having live in Alaska for 6 years, first time there was in 1959 - drive up, yes it was NOT paved as it is now for the less non brave. (ha)
A good friend Shorty Powers, an old time Alaskan & guide carried a Fox 410 cut down to be a hand held self protection weapon. Ihad Jack Shine an Alaskan gun smith make me one. Best thing I ever did. He added a few extra, like a place to carry extra ammo. Worn it like a pistol on my hip. It will stop a charging Moose. Shrty assure me it will stop a bear. I had no readon to doubt him. He also has the only bloodhounds (at that time ) in Alaska, so he travel the state lots. By the end of my next tour 1972 to 1975 I had travel most of the state, would go back anytime.
JRS AKA Roger

 

[bassdogs]

Great trip. Returned to lower 48 [KY] yesterday after 16 days and 1800 miles [motorhome] in Ak. Saw bears from a distance and 3 dead [hunters along the Denali Hwy] but no personal incidents. Camped just a few miles from the recent mauling of a hunter on the Denali. We were in a gravel pit turnout east of Paxson just a few days before that incident. That hunter got one shot off before being overran. Apparently he returned down a game trail and inadvertently came in on a moose kill. Survived after boat rescue and heli to Ak

Anyone who enjoys the outdoors needs to schedule a visit to ALASKA. It is truly the last American frontier. Don't go if you need amusement parks or shows to be entertained. Don't go if you are bored by miles [thousands] of unmarked wild bush as far as the eye can see. Don't go if you are bored by snow capped mountains and Moose / Caribou / Bear / etc walking across the few roads you will find. Already planning our next trip. Next time my newly acquired Rem 870 18" 12g will be making the trip.

PS: Flying with a handgun is for the most part a non event if you follow the rules. Hardsided locked case with unloaded firearm and ammo locked inside.

 

[TonyT]

One pof the execs at a company where I worked went on a guided fishing trip to Alska many years ago. He showed some photos and I noticed that the guide was holding a rifle in one hand and a rod in the other. The exc told me thahn when he asked the guide what he would do ih saw the bear the guide replied "I would drop the rod". The rifle was a Win M70 in 458 Magnum.
Two years ago while on a tour of Alaska I sytopped into the local hardware store/gunshops and found that the smalest caliber rifle omn display was a 338 Win Mag.
If I were to go hoofing in the wilds of Alaska I would take a short barreled Rem 870 with slugs.

 

[AK_Maine_iac]

the 45 cal Glock should do the job..



NO If you do use a 45ACP, file the sights off so it won't hurt as much when the bears shows you where to shove it.
My vote is for Rem870 12 gauge with good slugs. Not buck shot. I never leave home without my 454 casull.(ccw) But when in bear country it will always be my 870.

 

[scaatylobo]

I see your Glock as a viable SECOND gun to a pistol griped 12 bore that you have shot a bunch.

I used to do a great deal of shooting with one [ armored truck ] and I practiced from the hip and from the shoulder [ as if shooting a pistol ] and I got pretty good with it.

The choice om ammo would be the heaviest you can shoot AND hit with.

As with the 12 bore,the pistol with those 180 grainers is very stout.

I would carry the 12 bore on a sling in back of the shoulder,and the pistol is to NEVER come off your person.

Good luck and remember,you cannot shoot to stop ANYTHING if your not facing and AIMING !..

 

[Revolver Ocelot]

I live in alaska, I have heard of bears being taken with as little as a 357 magnum but for self defense a 44 should be bare minimum. This may be the excuse you need for the wife to let you get a ruger srh alaskan . If you have one the a 12ga with the proper ammo will do the trick just fine.