Has a citizen with a gun ever stopped a mass shooting?

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CaseyRyback

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looking for examples where a mass shooting was stopped by a citizen carrying a gun. Specifically, in America.

Are there any examples we can point to?
 
How would you know if it was stopped before it happened? I believe the mall incident in the Pacific NW a couple years ago was stopped by a CCW holder. Don't remember all details.
 
Portland mall a couple years back , a CC illegally carried into the Mall when an AR armed gun man opened fire killing 2 I believe, CC drew on the man, but there were people beyond so the CC held his fire. Gunman stopped when he saw the drawn pistol, ran into a hallway and blew his own brains out.
I think Sandyhook overshadowed this even as they happend near the same time, if I remember right....

I firmly believe that many many crimes have been prevented by the mere presence of a fire arm in citizens hands, more than can ever be counted.
 
caribou said:
Portland mall a couple years back , a CC illegally carried into the Mall when an AR armed gun man opened fire killing 2 I believe, CC drew on the man, but there were people beyond so the CC held his fire. Gunman stopped when he saw the drawn pistol, ran into a hallway and blew his own brains out.
I think Sandyhook overshadowed this even as they happend near the same time, if I remember right....

I firmly believe that many many crimes have been prevented by the mere presence of a fire arm in citizens hands, more than can ever be counted.
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yes i firmly believe it as well but sadly many crimes that are prevented are treated as "non-incidents" and aren't even reported because no shots were fired or nobody got hurt. This is an area where the lack of statistics really doesn't do us any favors.
 
Pearl Mississippi IIRC assistant principle retrieved gun from car and stopped the shooter from heading to another school and another at a law collage near VT where two off duty LE stopped a shooting.
 
Another mall incident in the Midwest when a shooter was stopped by an off-duty copy carrying under his CCW license.
 
http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob90.html

Massad Ayoob article from 2004.

Not long ago, a woman in a market in Israel saw a man attempting to activate an explosive device strapped to his body. She drew a concealed pistol and shot him dead before he could trigger the suicide bomb, and in so doing she saved countless innocent people from being killed or mutilated. American newspapers referred to her as a "security" person, but the word I get is that she was simply an ordinary lady...with a gun, and the will to use it, and the foresight to have learned to use it properly and effectively...Many years before, a clutch of terrorists opened fire in a public place in Israel. Guns bloomed everywhere from the concealing garments of honest Israeli citizens. In moments, the terrorists were on the ground bleeding from their gunshot wounds, all dead but one. The wounded survivor said indignantly afterward that no one had told them that their victims might be armed and capable of shooting back.
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First, our mass shootings are often in "gun free zones" - in fact that's the bulk of them. So it's not really a fair question. If guns were allowed in schools, I'd venture that these mass shootings would have either been deterred or interrupted by a permit holder(s).

Secondly daily CCW permit holders both DETER and PREVENT and even STOP armed attackers. I'll offer compelling evidence - MOST mass/random shooting are by design in gun free zones because of this fact. Columbine (gun free school), VT (gun free school), Sandy Hook (gun free school), Aurora movie theater (gun free signs at theater), and on and on and on... you get the idea. It's no coincidence that attackers PICK gun free areas.

I'm aware that the Texas belltower shooter Charles Whitman was engaged by a civilian(s) with a hunting rifle(s) retrieved from vehicles and law enforcement. Whitman shot and killed 16 and injured 32.
Approximately 20 minutes after first shooting from the observation deck, Whitman began to encounter return fire from both the police and other armed citizens.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman#End_of_the_massacre

Here's a list I found online.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesth...s-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.dxxGPD2DX

May overlap with this one.
http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2012/12/mass-killings-stopped-by-armed-citizens.html

Mass Killings Stopped by Armed Citizens
There are several documented cases where armed citizens have stopped mass attacks by gunmen. Let me list a few: The Pearl, Mississippi school shooting was stopped by the vice principal Joel Myrick with a Colt .45, The Appalachian School shooting was stopped by two students with handguns. Both of the above incidents were stopped by the armed citizens threatening the shooter without firing.
Pearl High School Link

Appalachian Law School Link

Plans to slay everyone in the Muskegon, Michigan, store and steal enough cash and jewelry to feed their "gnawing hunger for crack cocaine" fell apart for a band of would-be killers after one of their victims fought back.
Muskegon Shooting Link

The mass church shooting in Colorado Springs was stopped by the shooter being shot by a church member with a CCW permit.
New Life Church Link

The Santa Clara gunshop shooting in 1999 was stopped by an armed citizen after the shooter declared that he was going to kill everyone. Police found a list of intended victims in his car. Only the perpetrator, Richard Gable Stevens was shot.
Santa Clara Gunshop Link

The December, 1991, Aniston, Alabama defense where a CCW holder stopped armed robbers who were herding employees, customers, and his wife into a cooler. He shot both robbers, killing one.
Aniston Shoney's Shooting Link

July 13, 2009, in Virginia at the Golden Food Market: The gunman tried to shoot several people, was stopped by a CCW carrier.
Golden Food Market Shooting Link

Just recently, in Early Texas, armed citizen Vic Stacy shot and stopped a deranged man who had just murdered two neighbors and was firing at police with a rifle. Stacy made a very long shot with his revolver, three times as far as the perpetrator was from the police officer, who had an AR-15 type rifle.
Early Texas Peach House Shooting Link

Updated link to Peach House Shooting one Year Later

That sounds like a very good story... but it never made the national news.
I wonder who made the decision to spike that story.
Of course, when a mass shooting is stopped by an armed citizen, there are not as many victims. This leads to the charge that it would not really have been a “mass shooting”.

I have added this incident at the request of a reader:
Abraham Dickman had a history of anger against employees of the AT&T store in New York Mills, New York. On May 27th, 2010, he walked into the store with a .357 and a list of six employees. He shot the first employee, but was stopped from further attacks when Donald J. Moore, an off duty police officer who was allowed to carry his own handgun when not on duty, drew and fired his .40 caliber, killing Mr. Dickman before he could fire any more shots.
AT&T store Link

Here is another likely candidate.
College Park, GA, May 4, 2009.
Two gunman entered a party and ordered the men separated from the women. Then they started counting bullets. “The other guy asked how many (bullets) he had. He said he had enough,” said Bailey.
When one of the assailants prepared to rape a girl, a student was able to access a handgun and engage the two attackers in a firefight, driving one off and killing the other before the thug could rape his girlfriend.
“I think all of us are really cognizant of the fact that we could have all been killed,” said Bailey.
College Park Link

Another off duty police officer stopped the Trolley Square shooting with his personal handgun. He stopped the killing and contained the shooter until police reinforcements arrived and ended the situation.
Trolley Square Shooting Link

Winnemucca NV shooting, 25 May, 2008
The shooter, Ernesto Villagomez, entered the Players Bar and Grill and killed two people. He reloaded and was continuing to shoot when a citizen with a concealed carry permit shot him and stopped the killing.
Winnemuca Shooting Link

Parker Middle School Dance Shooting
14 Year old Andrew Jerome Wurst Killed one person and wounded three others when he was confronted by James Strand who subdued Wurst with a shotgun and held him until police arrived.
Parker Middle School Dance Shooting Link

Destiny Christian Center Shooting, April 24, 2012
Kiarron Parker rammed his car into another in the church parking lot, got out and attempted to kill multiple church members. He was only able to kill one before a member of the congregation, the nephew of the lady killed, and an off duty police officer, drew his handgun and shot Parker, stopping the killing.
Destiny Christian Center Shooting Link

Tyler Courthouse shooting, 2005 While police officers were involved in this shooting before and after Mark Alan Wilson intervened, no more people were killed after he shot the shooter, who had body armor, and who was able to return fire and kill the CCW holder, Wilson.
Tyler Courthouse Shooting Link

Clackamas Mall Shooting
I include this story because it is recent and has been getting some interest on the net. This case is not as clear as the others listed. This incident is similar to the more common defensive uses of guns because the mere display of the gun was enough to defuse the situation. We can never know if the shooter decided to commit suicide because he was confronted by Nick Meli, the CCW holder, as the shooter is dead. However, many mass shooters commit suicide when they know that armed resistance is at hand.
Clackamas Concealed Carry Showdown Link


I have added this link as suggested by Doug Kuiphoff in the comments. I do not think that it qualifies as a mass shooting stopped, because the potential shooter says that he did not intend to shoot anyone, but to kidnap some people. Still, it is an interesting story, so here is the link:
SC:Boiling Springs Freewill Baptist Church event

Added, from 2012. Consider that the Plymouth shooting incident happened just three months before Sandy Hook. Mark Ktytor, a concealed carry permit holder, stopped a likely mass killing before it reached enough victims to officially quallify. From the citizensvoice.com:
"Mark Ktytor?" the latest in the stream of reporters asked, trying to put a face to the name of the man investigators credited with preventing a fatal bar shooting last weekend from escalating into a massacre.
Link to Plymouth, PA Shooting story

This is the oldest incident that I have found. I include it because it is in the "modern era". It occurred in 1915, in Brunswick, Georgia. It is a bit unusual in that 20 or more people were wounded and at least five killed. The citizen who finally stopped the slaughter obtained the pistol used from a hardware store during the attack. The shotgun was actually a double barreled model.
Angered by losses in a real estate deal, Monroe Phillips, a lead business man, ran amuck today with an automatic shotgun and killed five men and wounded twenty others before he himself was killed. Phillips was shot dead by E.C. Butts, a lawyer, while he was trying to fire upon citizens who appeared in the street.

Link to 1915 Brunswick GA Mass Shooting story

Link to Doctor Stops Murderer at Phildelphia Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital 24 July, 2014

ATLANTA — A mental-health caseworker is dead and a doctor and his patient wounded after a bizarre gunfight at a gun-free-zoned hospital in Yeadon, Pa., near Philadelphia, Thursday. As police prepare murder charges against the wounded patient, focus is shifting to the gun-toting psychiatrist who stopped the mayhem, likely saving other lives.

Prosecutors say Dr. Lee Silverman opened fire on Richard Plotts, after Mr. Plotts shot his caseworker and barged his way toward Dr. Silverman’s office desk after gaining access to Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital. Silverman crouched down behind his desk and fetched his gun, which he then fired at Mr. Plotts, wounding him several times before he was subdued.
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University of Texas shooting. As I recall, it was the first day of hunting season (in Texas), so once his position was known everyone started shooting back once he popped his head over the ramparts, and he was no longer able to take aimed shots at people. Also, I believe it was a civilian that actually stormed the tower and shot him.
 
Sebastian the Ibis said:
University of Texas shooting. As I recall, it was the first day of hunting season (in Texas), so once his position was known everyone started shooting back once he popped his head over the ramparts, and he was no longer able to take aimed shots at people. Also, I believe it was a civilian that actually stormed the tower and shot him.
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Correct. According to Wiki, 3 cops and an armed civilian stormed the tower and jointly killed Whitman with multiple gunshots in a joint effort with Martinez ultimately killing Whitman with shots from a .38 and shotgun.
Officer Martinez later credited the numerous civilian shooters for saving "many lives" by forcing Whitman to take cover; limiting his range of targets.
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It's worth noting that of the dozens of people he had killed and wounded before taking return fire, his victims were out to 500 yards.
 
The notion of a "citizen" stopping a mass shooting is vague in many instances. As per the FBI, "mass" involves 4 or more, not including the shooter.

A lot of the gunwatch incidents either weren't mass shootings or weren't by just "citizens." Some of the incidents were simply where a mass shooting might have been about to occur, but nobody knows. For example, herding employees into the freezer during a robbery isn't an uncommon tactic and doesn't mean they were all about to be shot.

Appalachian Law School Link
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off duty cops.

The mass church shooting in Colorado Springs was stopped by the shooter being shot by a church member with a CCW permit.
New Life Church Link
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Former cop volunteering specifically as an armed guard for the service.

Another off duty police officer stopped the Trolley Square shooting with his personal handgun. He stopped the killing and contained the shooter until police reinforcements arrived and ended the situation.
Trolley Square Shooting Link
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As stated, off duty cop.

Tyler Courthouse shooting, 2005 While police officers were involved in this shooting before and after Mark Alan Wilson intervened, no more people were killed after he shot the shooter, who had body armor, and who was able to return fire and kill the CCW holder, Wilson.
Tyler Courthouse Shooting Link
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Wilson certainly had an impact on this shooting, but it should be pointed out that the shooter had already been engaged in a gun battle with cops before Wilson entered the battle. It is untrue that no more people were killed after he entered the battle. He was killed after entering the battle. As it happens, he had taken up a firing position behind the shooter's own vehicle. Wilson wasn't really your ordinary citizen either. He had owned a gun range and was a firearms instructor.

--

Clackamas Mall/Town Center shooting is also somewhat dubious. First, Nick Meli was a trained, licensed, armed security guard, though not working at the time. He never shot at the gunman and whether or not the gunman stopped shooting because of Meli is in question.

It could be argued that CCWer Dan McCown stopped a shooter at Tacoma Mall. Dan stood up and yelled at the shooter that then promptly shot Dan multiple times before retreating into a record store and taking hostages. Dan was armed, but didn't draw on the shooter, fearing being confused for the shooter by cops and thinking he didn't have a shot. Some argue that Dan stopped the shooter. Again, this is dubious, at best.

First, our mass shootings are often in "gun free zones" - in fact that's the bulk of them.

This is an incorrect statement. The bulk of our mass shootings do not occur in gun free zones. They occur on non-commercial private property, often where guns are owned and allowed. Most of our PUBLIC mass shootings likely do occur in gun free zones.

Here are some examples, but also note several are on public property...
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/01/one-dead-two-injured-in-rylie-shooting.html/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-killed-philadelphia-area-shootings/20426263/
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/4-People-Shot-1-Fatally-in-South-LA-286939761.html
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/12/us/portland-school-shooting/
http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/12/14/breaking-several-people-shot-in-miami/
http://www.nj.com/union/index.ssf/2...f_elizabeth_community_center_report_says.html
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article4826997.html

This is just a sample of what has gone on in the last month. So there are a lot of mass shootings that go on, but they are not your typical mall/workplace crazed "kill everybody" sort of shootings, but are your drive-by, drug, robbery, and domestic mass shootings.
 
Perhaps the definition of "mass shooting" is not common.

The FBI has their definition.... I think it's 4 people dead?

I don't think it's fair to discount an off duty cop as not a "citizen." Are they required to carry and intervene when off duty? I don't know. But if you start discounting off duty cops then you may also want to discount former service members too, which would be unfair. I'd say that any person carrying a private gun with a permit, and not in uniform, meets the definition of a citizen intervening in a shooting. Off duty cops don't have magical powers nor necessarily more training than a civilian that trains and carries a gun....

I was reading this thread to be mass public shootings where a citizen (including military and off duty LEO) is carrying in public and can intervene... not the domestic dispute in a private residence where he murders 5 people for personal reasons, or a drug deal gone south.

When I think of a "mass shooting" I think of something like the Paris incident, the Whitman belltower shooting, or the Arizona mall shooting of Congresswoman Gifford, the various school shootings, Aurora movie theater, the various Wendys and McDonalds and Chucky Cheese massacres, etc.

Just folks going about their day when 1 or more gunmen enter a public area with mass murder on their minds. Not a upset spouse who kills a family on Christmas morning.

It's also noteworthy that until recently (last decade or two) concealed carry was not common. So we really only have relatively newer information to draw from.
 
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Glen Beck's book "Control" has a chapter on this very thing , I think most of them have been listed here , but he also covers school shooting that were and points out that the media like to say things like it only happens here , and we need stronger gun laws ! truth is the first gun shooting was in Canada (1972?? ) and the three worst school shootings were in Europe, before Sandyhook , and to be classed as a mass shooting there need to be 4 dead not counting the shooter and only 1 shooter , who comes up with this crap !? if 4 guys walk in a store and kill 3 each (12 dead) this is not a mass shooting ! ?? :confused:
 
At Vaughan Foods in Oklahoma, not too long ago. The terrorist (and yes, he was a terrorist) beheaded one woman, started stabbing a second and was stopped by a company executive with a gun.
 
Perhaps the definition of "mass shooting" is not common.

The FBI has their definition.... I think it's 4 people dead?
Click to expand...

That would be mass murder, assuming 1 of the 4 isn't the shooter. So it is 4 or more shot to be a mass shooting where the shooter isn't tallied in that number.

I don't think it's fair to discount an off duty cop as not a "citizen." Are they required to carry and intervene when off duty? I don't know. But if you start discounting off duty cops then you may also want to discount former service members too, which would be unfair.
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Fair or not, off duty cops are still cops and get some special considerations under the law that normal CCW folks do not get. Cops have and are kept current on training that normal CCW folks are not mandated to get. Off duty or on duty, if they are involved in a shooting, it becomes an officer-involved-shooting.

Take Keith Hammond and the Trolley Square incident. He was off duty, but he identified himself as a police officer when he engaged the shooter.

When I think of a "mass shooting" I think of something like the Paris incident, the Whitman belltower shooting, or the Arizona mall shooting of Congresswoman Gifford, the various school shootings, Aurora movie theater, the various Wendys and McDonalds and Chucky Cheese massacres, etc.
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Yep, that is media hype for you, introducing all sorts of biases and fears.

At Vaughan Foods in Oklahoma, not too long ago. The terrorist (and yes, he was a terrorist) beheaded one woman, started stabbing a second and was stopped by a company executive with a gun.
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1. Not a terrorist, disgruntled (fired) employee. Just because he was Islamic does not make him a terrorist. There is no indication that the attack was attempt to make social, political, or religious changes by the public. That he beheaded a person is just gruesome, but not terrorist. We have had mutilation murders in the US for at least the last 100 years and they weren't terrorism.
2. Not a mass shooting

Might it have become a mass attack? Don't know. It was stopped by the OWNER, Mark Vaughn.
 
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Some of this focus on detail is just as confusing and arbitrary as the FBI and how it determines a mass shooting. I think the point with the off-duty cops is that it would have been a mass shooting (or a more serious one) had someone carrying at the time did not stop it. It could have just as easily been a civilian with a ccw. The more important distinction I think is that it was someone at the scene, with a gun, as opposed to cops who arrive later after being called.
I also think its fair to include things other than shootings. The Oklahoma beheading for example included multiple and unrelated victims i.e. not a targeted murder but an indiscriminate act of violence that could have and probably would have continued had the owner not used his weapon to stop it. Also see Ayoob's account of the Israeli vs suicide terrorists.
I think the important part is raising awareness about the real benefits of CCW. This said we should still practice some discretion in our accounts if we are referring to specifically mass shootings, since I think we all remember the Brady-Campaign embarrassment when they released their "mass-shooting" map last year. Let's not be them.
 
1. Not a terrorist, disgruntled (fired) employee. Just because he was Islamic does not make him a terrorist. There is no indication that the attack was attempt to make social, political, or religious changes by the public. That he beheaded a person is just gruesome, but not terrorist. We have had mutilation murders in the US for at least the last 100 years and they weren't terrorism.
2. Not a mass shooting

Might it have become a mass attack? Don't know. It was stopped by the OWNER, Mark Vaughn.
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You failed to mention that the man with the fire-arm that stopped the bad guy is a reserve police officer......

The Dove
 
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