Has anyone ever actually witnessed a decocker fail and discharge the gun?

[Buzznrose]

There was a police video from Atlanta I think, supposedly the gun was a Beretta 96 the lady cop hit the decocker and almost put a bullet in a cufed perps head.
I couldn't tell from sure if it was a Beretta and I don't think it was.

If it’s the video I’ve seen, where female LEO is standing over perp on the ground getting cuffed by another LEO, she was talking on her shoulder mounted radio and discharged her pistol, I don’t think that was due to the decocker failing.

it was a sympathetic trigger squeeze. In other words, she squeezed the mic with one hand and simultaneously squeezed the trigger on her pistol, unintentionally, with the other hand

So...in the video I saw, she screwed up

 

[RETG]

In all my 50 some years carrying SA/DA handguns I have never had it happen and I have always used the decocker and I have never heard of it happening from anyone I know who also carried a DA/SA. Can it happen? Anything can happen when it comes to a man made mechanical device. That is one reason why, when I have decocked a handgun, I have made sure to aim the weapon at the ground outside, or at the floor inside....waiting for that just in case momenet.

 

[JTQ]

There was a police video from Atlanta I think, supposedly the gun was a Beretta 96 the lady cop hit the decocker and almost put a bullet in a cufed perps head.

As JohnKSa above mentioned, it's nearly impossible (I suppose anything could be possible) for a Beretta 9X to discharge when the decocker is operated as the firing pin is a two piece affair and the back half, the part the hammer contacts, rotates out of the way when the decocker is engaged. There is also that whole firing pin safety thing.

Ernest Langdon explains the features of the 92 Series guns in this video. He explains the function of the safety/decocker beginning around the :50 mark.

 

[AlexanderA]

The Beretta 92 decocker works by more or less firing the gun with the firing pin block safety engaged.

This has always made me nervous. What I don't like is the "automatic" feature in which the hammer gets tripped when the decocker is applied. So, I replaced the hammer release lever on my Berettas with the spacer from the 92D. That way, the firing pin block is engaged, but you must pull the trigger separately to decock the gun. This also lets you ease the hammer down slowly. IMO, the safety and the decocker should be two separate functions.

 

[indy1919a4]

I do not understand why the decocker must let down the hammer so fast... Now maybe I am scarred, but it is a bit of a brown stain time everytime I see one used.. But I will admit I have lived a sheltered life removed from many of the modern firearm conveniences.

 

[Col. Harrumph]

Yes - it happened to me. S&W make "Walther" PPKs. Clicked the de-cocker and BOOM.

Yup, and S&W ran a recall on several s/n blocks because of this. Fortunately my own, really early model (s/n in the AAA range) wasn't affected.

My practice with this pistol is almost 100% in DA mode, which means I decock it after every shot. In like 15 years it has never failed to work as it should.

 

[JTQ]

This has always made me nervous. What I don't like is the "automatic" feature in which the hammer gets tripped when the decocker is applied. So, I replaced the hammer release lever on my Berettas with the spacer from the 92D. That way, the firing pin block is engaged, but you must pull the trigger separately to decock the gun. This also lets you ease the hammer down slowly. IMO, the safety and the decocker should be two separate functions.

I remember the thread where you went down that path. I'm glad you got what you are looking for, but it's not a modification I'd recommend.

 

[Patocazador]

On my 1st generation Sig 239 I always "walk" the hammer down with the decocker. Any mechanical part can fail and humans are behind the design and assembly. Humans (or computers or machines) are not perfect.
The one that scares me the most is my Mauser HsC. I always let the hammer down first on it ... same with my Walther P-38 post war.

 

[AlexanderA]

same with my Walther P-38 post war.

I have two Walther P-1's (aluminum frame P-38's). If I knew an easy way to disable the decocker, I would do it, the same as I did with my Berettas. I like a safety that locks the hammer, not releases it. (If that's not possible, just block the firing pin and leave the hammer alone.)

 

[JDR]

Never had a problem with the decocker button on the HKs or the decocker lever on the SIGs. And although I don’t particularly like the decocker lever on my CZ P-01, which drops the hammer to half cock, I can live with it

 

[tipoc]

Many years ago I saw the manual decocker on a Walther P38. Extremely rare for this to happen but it can.

Most decockers are extraordinarily reliable. I'd say all but there's likely a few mechanical flaws floating around somewhere.

I prefer lowering the hammer manually as I trust myself more than the devices on a gun. It's also good to keep in practice. But if I only have one hand available I will use the decocker.

 

[Monac]

KarateHottie93 asked "Has anyone ever actually witnessed a decocker fail and discharge the gun?"

Yes. I have a Romanian Cugir 32 caliber pistol. It is a clone of the Walther PPK but with a differently shaped grip. If you hold it on its side, so that the decocker is on the "up" side, and then use the decocker to drop the hammer on a loaded chamber, it will fire. It will NOT fire if the gun is held normally. I found this out because when shooting at a range, I often hold a pistol sideways to apply the safety when I am going to retrieve the target to see how I shot. This keeps my fingers away from the trigger. I also point the gun down range, so the AD did not cause any problem aside from making me jump.

This was very disturbing to me. I have not seen any explanation of it. I am not sure if the Cugir is an exact clone of the Walther PPK. The magazine seems different; it has a protruding finger to function the hold-open that my Walther PP magazines do not have.

Otherwise the Cugir, despite having an unattractive finish, is a very nice pistol. It is accurate, feeds reliably, is lightweight (the frame is aluminum instead of steel), and the new grip shape is good.

PS - this is the gun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pistol_Carpați_Md._1974 The article says it is NOT a direct copy of the PPK.

 

[grampster]

I don't have an answer to your question. But I have a simple rule with any of the handguns I have with de-cockers. That rule is that it could fail, so do with your handgun you always do...don't point it at anything you don't want to shoot, ever,...even when using the de-cocker.

 

[Waveski]

This has always made me nervous. What I don't like is the "automatic" feature in which the hammer gets tripped when the decocker is applied. So, I replaced the hammer release lever on my Berettas with the spacer from the 92D. That way, the firing pin block is engaged, but you must pull the trigger separately to decock the gun. This also lets you ease the hammer down slowly. IMO, the safety and the decocker should be two separate functions.

[/QUOTE]

You now have a “custom safety” that I would not be at all comfortable with.

 

[Waveski]

I do not understand why the decocker must let down the hammer so fast... Now maybe I am scarred, but it is a bit of a brown stain time everytime I see one used.. But I will admit I have lived a sheltered life removed from many of the modern firearm conveniences.

How else can the hammer come down? It travels in accordance with the spring tension that actuates it.

If you are experiencing brown stain from being near someone who trips a decocker in a responsible manner , you might want to consider some range time with an instructor who can give you a better familiarity and understanding of such things.

 

[indy1919a4]

How else can the hammer come down? It travels in accordance with the spring tension that actuates it.

If you are experiencing brown stain from being near someone who trips a decocker in a responsible manner , you might want to consider some range time with an instructor who can give you a better familiarity and understanding of such things.

I will try to work in a trip to a range under supervision just for you Hondo.. Many thanks

 

[1KPerDay]

How else can the hammer come down? It travels in accordance with the spring tension that actuates it.

Not in all designs. On SIGs when you press the decocking lever fully downward it trips the sear but the hammer is held rearward by your pressure on the lever. As you let the lever back up it slowly lowers the hammer (and the hammer block and drop safety is in place). You can lower it as slowly as you like.

 

[Waveski]

Did not know that.
Thank you.

 

[Mauser lover]

If so, has anyone ever witnessed both a decocker and firing pin safety fail at the exact same time and discharge a round?

In a CZ this type of failure would be tough to miss, but some of the others, not so much.

Yes, both decocker and firing pin safety must fail simultaneously. However, one or the other could have been failing every time for the last 5000 rounds. If my firing pin safety is already broken, it might not be noticed until my decocker fails and I get a "bang" instead of a little "snap".

The CZ decocker (if I recall correctly) catches the hammer at half-cock, so if the decocker failed first, you'd probably notice. In other guns, one might never notice that the firing pin is failing to be cammed down or forward during the decocking cycle if his firing pin safety was working properly.

Or (again, if I recall correctly) the P64 "Radom" has a pair of... nubs... that rotate to block the hammer. Other arms might have the same setup. If these nubs break off you would likely never notice that your decocker was failing as long as the firing pin block was working.

However, in short... No, I've never witnessed these failing. I've seen loads of other things break though, so I'm always alert for something else to break!

 

[Waveski]

I will try to work in a trip to a range under supervision just for you Hondo.. Many thanks

Well , I’m not “Hondo” , and if you become acclimated in such a fashion the benefits are all yours.

 

[JohnKSa]

There was a police video from Atlanta I think, supposedly the gun was a Beretta 96 the lady cop hit the decocker and almost put a bullet in a cufed perps head.
I couldn't tell from sure if it was a Beretta and I don't think it was.

I remember that video. I never heard anyone claim it was a decocking accident, but I could never find any good information. I watched the video several times and it was my impression that she pulled the DA trigger on the gun.

 

[indy1919a4]

Well , I’m not “Hondo” , and if you become acclimated in such a fashion the benefits are all yours.

Yes master Yoda.. again thanks

 

[jmorris]

Hammer block safety’s are pretty foolproof but I haven’t had any problems with SA/DA decockers. I have seen more than one AD by decocking, loaded SA pistols, using the thumb method. I prefer cocked and locked or empty chamber if you don’t trust your self with a loaded SA pistol.

This guy apparently knows someone that was lowering a DA/SA hammer but the firearm doesn’t have a decocker.



If it doesn’t have a decocker, I question the safety of having a fully lowered hammer on the pin vs instead being at half cock, if dropped but will admit to not knowing the exact function of that pistol as far as firing pin safety’s and such.

 

[jmorris]

I've read a billion times about always pointing the firearm in a safe direction to decock it,

Excellent way of thinking and even better taken one step further, by never pointing one at anything you do not wish to destroy, loaded or not.

Not exactly always practical but a good thing to keep in mind and if followed 100%, accidental injuries would be non existent.

 

[JohnKSa]

The Beretta 92 decocker works by more or less firing the gun with the firing pin block safety engaged. Never heard of one of those failing and there are untold zillions of those out there.

The CZ52 works that way, and there are others. That kind of decocking system can be prone to failure with wear. It's generally not a good idea to use the firing pin safety as anything other than a failsafe. Using it as the go-to method for preventing a gun from going 'bang' during a decock seems to be a non-optimal design.

The Beretta 92 design is actually much safer than that.

1. It rotates the rear of the firing pin about 90 degrees which makes it impossible for a strike to the rear portion of the firing pin to transfer to the forward portion of the firing pin and forward to the primer.

2. As the rotation takes place, a piece of steel rotates upwards to protect the rear of the firing pin from the hammer.

3. The decocker trips the sear, dropping the hammer.

4. The firing pin safety acts as a fail safe in the extremely unlikely event that the initial two functions fail. Although I can't see how they possibly could. Maybe if there was some kind of really messed up situation where the decocker tripped the sear before rotating the firing pin--but I think someone would almost have to intentionally modify the gun to work that way.

The Walther PPK decocker is an inherently weak design. Not the fault of S&W. The design has basically stayed unchanged since 1929. I had an Interarms iteration and always assisted the decocker by using off hand to lower hammer while employing safety decocker.

I tend to manually lower the hammer when using a decocker as well, but that said, I'm not sure how the PPK decocker is weak.

When the lever is activated, it brings a cam up to keep the hammer from contacting the firing pin and then also locks the firing pin in place using the decocking lever to hold the "bulb" at the rear of the firing pin so the firing pin can't move forward or backward at all.

Again, I can see the possibility of the decocking function dropping the hammer before it locks & blocks the firing pin, but I think that the gun would have to be modified for that to happen. The lever locks the firing pin very early in its travel and doesn't trip the lever until it is nearly all the way to the safe position.

It is true that the Interarms PPKs (and I assume the earlier models--I can't speak to the newer S&W models) do not have passive firing pin safeties. It would be wise to carry them safety on to insure they are drop safe.