Hate crime?

[peacefuljeffrey]

One thing we are missing in this discussion is the reason behind making certain crimes into "hate crimes." Why did they legislate it?

What I have read is that they made the "hate crime" designation to enhance penalties for certain attacks because they want to deter the "message-sending" crimes. They call "hate crimes" a kind of terrorism and say that they are designed to send a message to others of the race of the person/people who were attacked.

I see major flaws in this thinking.

Let's say I was a huge bigot (I'm not) and I went out one night with my friends to beat up some "n!@@ers". And we found some black guys we didn't like the looks of, and we beat them up. That is not a crime trying to send a "message" to anyone, or to other blacks. It would most likely be a crime of "we beat up THESE guys"! :banghead:

I think that you can be charged with a hate crime because the courts attribute motives to you ("sending a 'fear me' message to others of your victim's race/sexual orientation/gender/etc.") that you did not necessarily intend.

And since when is being feared something you can be charged with? I mean, if I read about a guy in the paper, a black guy who robbed and beat and stabbed a white guy, even if he did it strictly for robbery purposes, shouldn't I have a reasonable fear of that guy if I happen to run into him? Why is that fear (of being robbed by the guy) to be taken less seriously just because it does not target due to race?

We're trying to protect people from having to worry that they'll be targeted for their group associations, but we ALL are the "target group" of people who rob, rape, stab, shoot and kill. Any crime that is not directed at a person specifically because of race, etc., should be considered a hate crime against humans in general -- and I call that WORSE.

If a guy will rob, rape, stab, shoot and kill people of ANY race, he is more dangerous to society as a whole than a guy who singles out blacks, or whites, or asians, or jews... He is more randomly dangerous to more people!

-Jeffrey

 

[one-shot-one]

Too Many Choices!?

"You see it is easier to kill an evil bastard and then get to sleep at night"
problem is i see them all as evil bstrds black white yellow or red and all those in between, special right of some special prosecution for others. i'll just have to get use to being "racist” i guess.
oh by the way count down to thread lock.......

 

[XLMiguel]

It's reallly very simple -

Assault is assault.
Robbery is robbery.
Rape is rape.
Muder is murder.
Who the hell cares about the motive, it's all criminal! None of it is socially acceptable. While there may or may not be extenuating circumstances, none of the above is acceptable behavior.

I guess we've got to let 'the system' sort it out, but throwing in a bunch of PC-bovine excrement does not help the process.

 

[torpid]

"Well your honor, I killed him, but I didn't enjoy it."

"Well that's a positive revelation in this grisly case! You just got ten years knocked off of your sentence, Mr. McKiller."

"Thank you, your honor. I may be a murderer, but thank heaven I'm not a racist."




.

 

[NIGHTWATCH]

The two individuals who were with the "victim" admitted that they were looking for a car to steal. They (he) deserved a bat to the head. The mistake was to use the "N" word before swinging the bat. Otherwise this whole thing would have never been known.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

NightWatch,

You may be right, I can admit that, but still as in one of my previous posts, If these guys wait till a car is broken into, then act,they are heroes. If they call the police and everthing works out, they are heroes. If somebody beat up a criminal(busted his head with a a bat no less), then took his shoes, and did not call the police or an ambulance for the guy,after leaving the scene, that is a little ruff; as these were probably some punk kids and not real gang bangers or somebody woulda got ,"Capped" !

 

[AK-74me]

Whites are 1 1/2 times more likely to be serial killers. Just some food for thought on statistics... I don't have my site, but give me some time and I will find them : ...

What is the point of making that statement, I think everyone knows that, but it has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

 

[NIGHTWATCH]

Whites are 1 1/2 times more likely to be serial killers. Just some food for thought on statistics... I don't have my site, but give me some time and I will find them

Yeah, and 75% of all inter-racial crimes committed in this country are by blacks on whites, but what does that have to do with what occurred here?

A good well deserved ass whooping.



FYI: Im not white.

 

[308win]

A good well deserved ass whooping.

+1 By their own admission they weren't there to do good deeds so what is with all of the hand wringing?

 

[Don Gwinn]

I can't believe what I'm reading on this thread. As near as we can tell, Minucci had NO IDEA that his victim was a car thief. Too many of you are advocating letting this thug walk free after he did his level best to murder someone in the street with a baseball bat, and for what?

Because he "lucked out" and his victim just HAPPENED to be a guy who would have stolen a car at a later time? So what?

If we don't charge criminals when they hurt other criminals, something like 80% of our murderers will get to go free. Criminal-on-criminal crime is by far the most common, but so freaking what?

I'm disappointed.

 

[308win]

Criminal-on-criminal crime is by far the most common, but so freaking what?

Two bad apples rub together in the barrel and one of them gets bruised - how unfortunate! :banghead:

 

[AK-74me]

If we don't charge criminals when they hurt other criminals, something like 80% of our murderers will get to go free. Criminal-on-criminal crime is by far the most common, but so freaking what?

I don't disagree with that. I just disagree with it being called a hate crime and the whole ideaology of them.

And although you are right about him "getting lucky" so to speak. Knowing now what he didn't know then, I feel no sympathy for the "victim" here.

 

[Sportcat]

There was an article on CNN how this guy shot paintballs at a Sihk (sp?) temple the afternoon of Sept. 11.

Apparently he had another "hate crime-ish" charge as a youth.

I agree... this guy is a bad apple.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Let your emotions go people! And thanks Don

Still no one has talked about our ,"hero" not calling the police and stealing the beaten man's shoes, and leaving him their bleading to death in the streets. Again, sounds like the actions of a ,"Hero", to me ! Now God forbid any of us should ever be involved in a justified shooting, would you then ,"flee the scene", implicating you are no better than the criminal you just stopped? Or better yet, you catch the guy about to steal your car, shoot him, and then decide," Hey , those are some nice shoes you got there, I think I'll take them with me". Then, not call the police for this CRIMINAL, and then leave him bleeding there without so much as calling someone to render aid . Even if the Black guys were going to commit a crime,stealing a car does not deserve the death penalty, let alone abject dehuminzing... I believe this is the most low road of the High Road responses to a thread I have ever seen ! READ ALL MY POSTS AGAIN ...

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

I can fix this really easy guys with a Hypathetical...

What if your son/daughter got involved(peer preasured, talked into) stealing a car with some friends... Before he steals the car,they are caught and some guys beat the tar out of him, steal his shoes, don't call for medical help and leave hime their to bleed out with a concussion; what do you want the guys charged with :banghead: ! Being a ,Hero" , is what most of you are saying, I guess your scumbucket son/daughter would have deserved it without commiting a crime becdause he might have or was about Punishment before a crime is commited is a Hate Crime and this guy is a mini Hitler..."Well officer he looked at me funny and I just knew I had to beat his (Black White Asian)ass before he stole a car"

 

[AK-74me]

let your emotions go

Think you need to take some of your own advice.

No he is not a hero and yes he should go to jail...... but......

Seems like you have your own agenda for pushing for this hate crime BS. You can put as many or :banghead: or in your post but you'll never change my mind. And I still don't have any sympathy for the "victim"

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Sympathy no, Compassion for a human being, YES!

The guy is not a child molestor! The guy is not a murderer! The guy did not even steal anything, even if he was. If you advocate stopping possible crimes then all guns have to go, you might rob a bank...

Compassion goes beyond, stopping the crime, which is justified, no mandatory as a Citizen and a man of Honor, if you can. Now after you stop the crime(or potential crime in this instance) you also have a duty and a right as a Citizen to render aid to a victim, even if said victim just minutes ago was a criminal...

Even the armed forces render aid to wounded enemy soldier that were about to kill them minutes ago... You say this Black man(admittedly a criminal about to steal a car) deserved to be left in the street to die, after having his shoes stolen and being beaten with a baseball bat you are as much of the problem as these scumbags on both sides.... READ MY POST AGAIN, as nowhere do I say the Black guys are angels, I simply show that they did not commit a crime yet, and got beaten and left for dead, with his property taken. If you don't see something wrong with not giving aid to a down man, but instead stealing his shoes and burning off in your SUV with your 2 friends, is what makes this a hate crime....If you have done nothing wrong, successfully stopped a crime, then why run away after stealing his shoes, after the fact? If you can't answer those questions honostly and come to the conclusion that the Blacks ABOUT to steal a car are more of the victim only if this ,"Hero", fails to render aid, fails to call the cops, flees the scene of a crime, and steal the other criminals shoes then your logic is flawd. Stay and wait for the cops and face your actions and you are a hero, run like a coward after stealing some shoes and you are just as guilty (and more evil in my mind) than a guy about to commit a property crime....

PS which is worse? About to be attempted grand theft, or actually attempted murder with a baseball bat and friends, failure to render aid, fleeing the scene, stealing shoes, and driving off like nothing happend?
The scale seem tipped to one side if you can read the possible charges for both involved parties

 

[AK-74me]

I have read your posts, I know what you are saying.

Do you know what I am saying?

Hate crime is BS! I don't care if he did beat him based strictly on the color of his skin. It dosen't matter to me. Either way the guy got beat. End result same. There should be no distinction. Yeah the guy stole shoes, left him there to rot, and probably didn't know at the time what they were up to.... i got all that. If he gets 10 yrs in jail then good, if that is the sentence but he shouldn't get 20 yrs or whatever because it was deemed a hate crime.

 

[Bruce H]

They were walking through a neighborhood. They have not done anything wrong up to the time of the attack. It is said they were looking for a car to steal. They have not stolen one yet. How is it their fault. Minucci needs gutted right in the court room. I like how it seems worth a beating just because someone is where someone else thinks they shouldn't be. Talk about gang mentality.

 

[Too Many Choices!?]

Ak-74me,

I hear ya loud and clear...You are basicly saying murder is murder. Stealing is stealing. For the most part, I agree, but these guys would get aggravated assualt charges and that's it. I say that the nature of the crime, would necessitate a more harsh penalty. Kinda like commit a cime with a firearm(brandishing=deadly force), your penalty goes up. the term,"hate crime", it does seem to be abused/mis-applied by, " The Powers That Be". ...I will most assuredly concede that point with no argument except, which way is it construed