Have you ever felt "undergunned" while carrying?

[MikePGS]

Hello. I'm (still) debating as to whether get a M&P 9mm (full-size) or a small revolver (642 or SP101) for carrying. The other day my girlfriend, our four month old, and her friend and her friends young son were out and there was a man acting very odd, just hanging in front of an empty store. A few minutes later he was standing behind the car, hands in his pocket not really doing anything. Anyways he was just acting funny, not really doing anything but my thoughts turned to "I sure wish I had a gun on me in case he tries something", yet this time I also thought "What if there were six of them?" is this just because I don't carry period, or do people who actually carry ever think "I wish I had more gun"? The revolver would be much easier to carry, but its always nice to know you have 17(!) extra rounds on tap in case...god forbid... you need that many. Thoughts?

 

[Rob G]

I've never really worried too much about how many rounds my gun carried. I always go under the belief that if I'm quick and accurate then I won't need all that many. In your specific scenario:

"What if there were six of them?

I offer the following thought: If there really are six of them....RUN!!!! There's very little chance you will survive a gunfight against six armed assailants even if you're carrying an NFA AK w/ a fully loaded drum magazine attached.

You should carry the gun you are most comfortable with and that you can shoot well. If you feel like it doesn't hold enough bullets then an extra magazine, speedloader, etc. should be carried with you and you should practice fast reloading.

As for whether or not I wish for more gun...well... I always wish that I'll have my hands on a fully loaded AR, AK, FAL, etc. when the SHTF. But realistically I carry a compact 1911 that holds six rounds plus one in the pipe. I figure that's enough for me to get away and that works for me.

 

[Oro]

RobG has just given very sound analysis.

In a situation where I can't run, I carry a 2.5" barreled K frame S&W .357 magnum. It is small, concealable, and powerful. Six shots of .357 will end any dispute I can't run away from, or cover the people I need to. A pair of speed strips with reloads in my pocket takes care of the next dozen rounds if needed.

To be very direct, I have NEVER felt "undergunned" carrying six rounds of .357 and a dozen reloads. Never felt "undergunned" with that. And I don't think I ever would.

 

[calaverasslim]

+1 for Rob G. I have never felt undergunned. I carry either a Charter Arms Bulldog 3" or S&W N frame model 21, both 44 special, and always filled with Win. STHP's or the Speer GDHP's.

In the winter time, I swap over to the JSP's because of the coats etc. Here in S. Texas, we don't really wear heavy coats like up north, so even with HP's I will be ok.

 

[michiganfan]

Glock 19 -16 rounds in the gun and an extra 17 mag. Can't have too much ammo.

 

[MaterDei]

If it's something that I can conceal on my body then I feel undergunned. Still beats the heck out of being ungunned.

 

[almtiba]

I carry a Beretta 84, with 14 rounds of .380.
I feel angry and sad, because it's the "largest" and "most powerful" pistol caliber I can - by Brazilian laws - carry, but I don't feel undergunned.

Regards,

Andre Tiba - Brazil

 

[Prepster]

I personally can shoot a j-frame better than a Glock, so that would be my choice. I feel that having an ultra-high capacity gun is nice, but not required for the reasons Rob G mentioned.

My one question: If you're considering the full size M&P, why not look into a larger revolver as well? A medium frame S+W would be just as concealable, and they're available in much more powerful calibers. I like Rugers myself, but they tend to be chunky and harder to tote as they get larger.

 

[Treo]

CZ75B .40 S&W w/ a 12 round magazine and one reload. I’m good

 

[FoMoGo]

My normal carry is a S&W M 21 .44 special and 1 or 2 speedloaders... normally 1.
It isnt a Magnum, it doesnt hold 15 rounds... it is a 6 shot revolver they chucks a large heavier projectile at a moderate speed.
I never feel undergunned.
Ever.
The only way I would feel undergunned is if I were dropped into a combat situation. Then I would feel undergunned with ANY pistol/s.


Jim

 

[Ridgerunner665]

My officers size 1911 holds 7+1 rounds...and I carry 2 extra mags.

If 22 rounds of 45 acp won't end it...he'll darn sure know I've been there.

NO...I don't feel undergunned.

 

[LKB3rd]

I wouldn't bank on it, but I think that most any attacker would go into duck and run mode without worrying about what caliber they were being shot at with.
I saw a video of a large riot, with over 100 people fighting. Gun shots rang out, and the whole crowd stopped fighting and all ran away.

 

[Nimble1]

My "normal" carry is a Taurus PT145 with 11 rnds of 230 JHP. When I am carrying it I feel OK but sometimes due to clothing,etc I carry a P64 with 8 rnds of JHP's and I do feel a little naked.. I guess the solution is to just carry the 45 all the time..

 

[david_the_greek]

The issue with the running is that he was with others. What if you have kids/elderly with you? I'm pretty confident in the belief that if you dispatch one attacker with a good shot, the others would likely flee, however there are times when I wonder if the 5 shots I'm sporting would be enough if said perps didn't flee. If it was a "gun fight" and I had time and space to reload, fine. However it seems like these confrontations happen up close and personal.

Either way, I definitely feel better with my J-frame on me than my pocket knife (which I have no real training with anyways), and I definitely feel better with the 5 shot revolver that I'm more likely to carry than the hicap larger pistol. That said, I want a compact 1911 so bad! I definitely would not hesitate to carry a larger gun. At this point, the J-frame is paid for and is slightly more practical for me to carry.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Mike PGS,


Nope. Never.

I carry a Glock 17 and a couple of spare magazines having arrived at that arrangement years ago and I don't waste my time constantly debating and re-analyzing my decision. Pick what suits you and stick with it.

The caliber (assuming it to be an acceptable "service" caliber), ammunition, type and brand of the gun that you are carrying for the purpose of CCW/SD/HD are but a small part of the overall "equation" when it comes to defending/protecting "you and yours" and "me and mine".

Anyone who believes that the most important aspect of their "plan" should center upon their carry piece and the ammunition contained therein, is in need of a "very serious rethink" since the most important aspect of anyone's "plan" for survival should be that of the tactics that will be employed to first avoid, and if pressed, successfully resolve the inevitable threat(s) to ones' safety and welfare.

The most important and powerful tool that you possess lays smack dab between your ears and just behind your eyes and if you've successfully programmed it with the right "software" (training) you can avoid 99% of the trouble headed your way by remaining vigilant and listening to that voice in the back of your head that keeps saying, "Something just ain't right here" when the circumstances start to go "sideways".

Case in point:


You stated above:

The other day my girlfriend, our four month old, and her friend and her friends young son were out and there was a man acting very odd, just hanging in front of an empty store. A few minutes later he was standing behind the car, hands in his pocket not really doing anything. Anyways he was just acting funny, not really doing anything but my thoughts turned to "I sure wish I had a gun on me in case he tries something", yet this time I also thought "What if there were six of them?"....

You didn't need a gun to resolve this one. The simple and best answer, is that one or six of them, would be to leave the area and return at some other time if need be once the danger has departed. Sure it is inconvenient, but being dead is worse. You can always come back, death is permanent.

Wishing that you had a gun on you, "in case he tried something", tells me that you stayed well past the point of noticing the potential problem and resolving it by leaving. Even if you had a gun "on you", leaving would've still been the best way to resolve the concerns that you've expressed above. Why stick around waiting for trouble to catch up to you? Rather than exercising questionable judgement by standing there and wondering if the threat will materialize, leave. It is that simple.

So, choose your gun and ammunition, then get some professional, competent training. It'll be the best money you will ever spend.

 

[TAB]

Going up against 6 armed and determined people might as well be put the barrel in your mouth... you have a better chance of surving.

 

[MikePGS]

The issue with the running is that he was with others. What if you have kids/elderly with you?

Exactly. If I was by myself I'd run like the wind (A pretty slow wind, but still a moving one). I certainly don't entertain fantasies of getting into massive gun battles or anything like that, but the practical side of me says that its certainly possible (just last year there was a group of like 8 kids going around beating people up for no good reason, http://www.nationalterroralert.com/...-30-men-suspected-in-several-attacks-detroit/ .

 

[MikePGS]

You didn't need a gun to resolve this one. The simple and best answer, is that one or six of them, would be to leave the area and return at some other time if need be once the danger has departed. Sure it is inconvenient, but being dead is worse. You can always come back, death is permanent.

I certainly will avoid any type of situation like that if possible, however people around this area (metro detroit) seem to be getting more aggresive and bold, probably due to the downslide of the local (and national) economy. I'm always going to do my best to avoid any dangerous type of situation, but in the off chance that I can't avoid it...

 

[cdiaz6000]

Glock 23 with 13 JHP's

-sometimes a spare mag with 13 more. if 26 rounds can't save me, nothing will.

I tried carrying a snubby and it just didn't work out. 5 shots, .38 +p and it was a BEAST to shoot... i have big hands so it just didn't work for me.

 

[wyocarp]

Going up against 6 armed and determined people might as well be put the barrel in your mouth... you have a better chance of surving.

This is crazy thinking in my opinion. I'd rather go up against six thuds with guns than one or two people that actually shoot and train regularly.

I remember a trial that I was involved in back in the 90's where police emptied their weapons on a young kid that had shot at them. There was a chase with an exchange of gunfire. The kids stopped and were going to get out and run. There were a dozen cops and hundreds of rounds fired when the kids stopped. I think there were under fifty rounds that hit the car and only a few actually hit the kid. Like, one in an arm and a few in the leg.

Personally, I think anyone who shoots and practices probably has a good chance. Keep your head. It isn't the first shot that makes a difference, it's the first best shot or two.

 

[BADUNAME37]

If a situation ever arises where I am outgunned, then it was meant to be - whether I have a gun or not and whether I have five shots or 55 shots.

Thinking on it, I have to realize, should THAT ever occur, then God is taking me home to be with Him and some might say that my "time was up."

I would have to say it is HIS timing, not mine, or "our timing."

 

[DarkSoldier]

We all are pretty much on the same page with the fact that avoiding a fight is better than prevailing in one, so lets accept for the sake of the question asked that the situation cannot be avoided and you must resolve it.

I carry either a full size 1911 TRP and two spare 8 round mags or a six inch S&W model 29 with three speed loaders of JHP Speer Magnum defense loads. I aways carry a BUG, normally a second .45 or .44 mag. Yes, I always feel undergunned.

Whether you are a soldier in battle, a cop on the beat, or a lawfully armed American citizen, every situation in which you must fight for your life or the life of those for whom you are morally or lawfully responsible is a "combat situation". I want every advantage I can get in a gunfight and even the biggest and best handgun is already a poor choice, even if the opposition is armed only with a Raven .25 ACP. If they are better armed, the odds against you only get worse.

That said, however, I do not subscribe to the school of thought that, when faced with multiple armed attackers you cannot prevail. In that unlikely yet very possible circumstance, do your very best with all that you have with you, head, heart, equipment, and expect to win. If you must die, then die surprised.

Just my own philosophy, others may have a different view.

Respectfully,

DarkSoldier

 

[skoro]

"What if there were six of them?"

If you're up against six armed opponents, your chances with any handgun are slim to none. Get behind some cover fast and hope you can discourage them from coming after you is probably your only chance. If that isn't possible, then you're target practice.

 

[Bubba613]

"Feeling undergunned" isn't much of a statement. Everyone's comfort level will be different and will vary at different times in different circumstances.
The truest thing I know is, the first rule of a gunfight is have a gun. A .22short is better than a set of keys in your hand.
As for "if there were 6 of them," if that's your situation then you're toast. So get over it. EIther you will shoot one or two and the others will scatter or they will come after you with a vengeance. Choice of weapon wont make much difference either way.

 

[loneviking]

Most thugs don't know how to shoot accurately. There was an amazing video some time back on Youtube in which an armed robber enters a convenience store with a 9mm and about 15 rounds in the magazine. The clerk is taking care of a rather rotund lady at the counter.

BG pulls his gun and demands money. Clerk pulls his gun (also a 15 rd. 9mm) and they start banging away at each other as the BG backs out of the store. Right through the middle of this hail of lead strolls this rotund lady, who exits the store and disappears!! 30 rounds exchanged and NOBODY got hit!

I carry a .357 and sometimes worry a bit, but I know my accuracy is better than that. I train with the local IDPA club on a regular basis. I usually have four speedloaders, all loaded with 145 or 156 gr. Silvertips. Yes, I'd be worried, but I figure I have a pretty good chance of making it out wounded but alive.