Head to Head: Practical Big Game Hunting Rifles

[Kachok]

OK everybody now we get to play head to head with much bigger guns most of these are max or near max power loads for some larger calibers
all of them range from 15-30 lbs of recoil and are all suitable for very big game at moderate ranges at leased. Recoil figures are based on a light 8lbs rifle.
Some of these are not for the faint of heart, recoil figures are adjusted for impulse. Redundent calibers are placed together, lets face it there is nothing a 280 can do that a 7x64 cannot and vice versa.
All bullets in the test are the highest BC commerciacly available HUNTING bullets for the caliber/weight that factory barrels will stabalize
Just like in the last comparison Max Range is the range where the bullet is still moving 1800fps and making over 1000ft/lbs of energy. That is the recomended minimum for white tail deer. For elk and similar game 1500ft lbs is recomended
OGW@300 is the Otimal Game Weight at 300 yards. This formula values heavier bullets as do I and most big game hunters.
Most loads come streight from the Nosler manual.
Caliber--------Weight speed---recoil--Max range----MPBR--OGW@300-------BC

.280Rem/[email protected] 285yards 567lbs------.617
[email protected] 311yards 503lbs-------487
.270 [email protected] 291yards 468lbs------.531
[email protected] 309yards 414lbs------.450
[email protected] 271yards 752lbs------.631
[email protected] 287yards 632lbs------.507
[email protected] 297yards 608lbs------.473
7mm [email protected] 299yards 669lbs------.617
[email protected] 322yards 658lbs------.515
308 [email protected] 272yards 529lbs------.507
[email protected] 288yards 549lbs------.473
[email protected] 279yards 463lbs------.531
[email protected] 293yards 408lbs------.487
270 [email protected] 314yards 610lbs------.531
[email protected] 331yards 524lbs------.450
6.5-284/6.5-06 [email protected] 299yards 464lbs------.612
[email protected] 312yards 364lbs------.458
[email protected] 313yards 342lbs------.479
260rem/[email protected] 287yards 406lbs------.612
338 [email protected] 247yards 601lbs------.550
35 [email protected] 249yards 713lbs------.446
[email protected] 247yards 759lbs------.575
[email protected] 263yards 747lbs------.550
[email protected]*-725yards 276yards 808lbs------.631
[email protected]*-700yards 296yards 709lbs------.507
[email protected]*-725yards 305yards 665lbs------.473
[email protected] 337yards 441lbs------.479
[email protected]#201yards 259lbs------.199

*Implies that it is not pushed to it's maxamum power for the purpose of staying below 30lbs of recoil
#45-70 bullets are designed to expand at speeds lower then 1800fps
Standout performances:
6.5-284, 7mm Rem Mag, and the 270WSM provide astonighing long range performance for their level of recoil.
The old 30-06 hangs in there with all of it's offspring, with it's hefty 210 gr bullets, neither the 338-06 or 35 Whelen could really surpass it's killing power at 300 yards.
The 280 Remington stomped the 270 win and 308 win both in trajectory and long range killing energy, and it did so with no real increase in recoil.
The 338 Fed supprised me I assumed it would make a lackluster performance but it really packs a punch at 300 yards, with recoil that was below avarage. Just don't use it as a long range gun too slow past 375 yd
6.5mm, 7mm, and 30 cals have superior bullets to other calibers like the .257 and .277 and .35 I think the tighter twist rates have somthing to do with that.
As much as I love my 6.5x55 and 260 Rem this is just a bigger class of weapon, that said they did hold their own and bested several compedators based on my intitial impressions.
Unlike last time where we had a simple set of criteria to judge the best of the best, this time we are dealing with a much larger set of hunting situations, not quite as clear cut.

 

[eldon519]

What is the point of this?

 

[Kachok]

Nobody make any mistake about it all the rifles listed ARE big game rifles, even the "puney" 260 and 6.5x55 in this test have a higher OGW, momentum, and KE at range then your run of the mill 165gr 30-06 factory corelocks that everyone swears by. 386lbs vs 406lbs.

 

[Kachok]

It is a detailed comparison of full power handloads of popular calibers, I did it for the sissy kickers and they asked me to make a comparison for "full flavor" calibers as well.

 

[Leaky Waders]

Is the 45-70 data wrong? I thought people were wacking buffalos with these at 1000 yards over 100 years ago. Your chart shows max range at 100 yards?

 

[Freedom_fighter_in_IL]

Have to agree with Leaky here Kachok. I think your program is on the blink with that one buddy. The 45/70 was knocking down Bison at 400 yards all day long every day for a LOT of years. Even before cordite. The Black Powder loads were some bad boy buggers as well. And the OGW of 259 pounds??????? Come on now buddy don't let me down. I know you are sick so maybe your cold meds went to your head on that!

 

[Kachok]

Did yall read the part that said the Maximum range is where the bullet is making 1000ft lbs of energ AND 1800 fps. Besides in the notes below I do specify that bullets designed for the 45-70 will expand below 1800fps.
I could not change the criteria just beacuse on round is drasticly different in that one area. The 45-70 bullets that were used to kill those Buffalo 100 years ago were a 405gr solid bullet, if you like I can track down a handload for the heavier bullet but I don't think it made 1800 fps at the muzzle!! I chose the 300gr Partition because it was the only one listed in Noslers book. No matter what the numbers say the 45-70 is an effective round to 200 yards, simply put it does not need to expand, it does a fair amount of damage just punching a big .45 cal hole.
Most dangerous game calibers don't use an expanding bullet anyway, deep penatration with a monolithic solid is the name of the game.

 

[Kachok]

OK we can step the 45-70s game up a little with a 400gr bullet, It's MPBR drops to 186 yards but it's OWG at 300 yards is a respectable 507lbs. Using a non expanding 400gr bullet impacting at 1283 fps you should get about 36" of soft tissue penatration even at 300 yards. Not exactly an ethical 1,000 yard bison slayer in my book but within 100 yards there is nothing better. BTW its OGW figure at 100 yards is over 1100lbs!!!

 

[Kachok]

While 7.62x51 NATO ammo is not super expensive, I do even better then that, I reload my brass. That makes shooting my guns less expensive then anything other then a 22LR. The 308 ain't bad at all, I have one and I like it too, but it will not win this head to head aginst more powerful longer ranged guns, don't feel bad my fav the 6.5x55 is not going to win this one either, although both had very respectable performances.

 

[Kachok]

OK time for the first scored test. Here we will determine who makes the most downrange killing power for the least amout of recoil, lets face it if recoil was not an issue at all we would all hunt with a 416 Rigby or Ultra Mag. Supprising results here, the lowly 308 vastly exceded my expectations and scored the highest at 100 yards and darn near took it at 300 yards! All of this despite facing the handicap of not being able to use the ultra high BC 210gr bullets the 06 gets to throw.
I am sure most of you real big game hunters could have told me this before I did all these calculations but the med-large calibers with heavy bullets just make more efficient killers then the high speed 257-270 cal by a good margin. At 100 yards the 35 Whelen showed what knockdown was all about scoring the highest total killing power and holding an exellent power/recoil ratio. I posted the OGW figures at 100yards in the 4th coloum. I did this because the 35 Whelen and 45-70 ARE EXELLENT big game guns just their edge is lost when you get to 300 yards, that is where the 30-06, 308, 338-06, 338 Federal and 280 show their stuff thanks to some high tech ultra high BC bullets. I think I will score each % of efficiency as 1 point toward the total score.
cal------weight OGW/lbsR@300-- OGW/lbsR@100
280 -----168gr --27.25------791lbs 38.02
270 -----150gr --21.17------687lbs 31.08
30-06 ---210gr --28.27-----1048lbs 39.39
7mm Mag 168gr --25.05-----928lbs 34.75
308 -----180gr --27.40------800lbs 41.45
7mm-08--160gr --25.72------683lbs 37.94
270WSM--150gr --23.55-----885lbs 34.17
6.5-284--140gr --25.21------645lbs 35.05
25-06 ---115gr --18.46------517lbs 27.94
260Rem--140gr --26.53------567lbs 37.05
338Fed---225gr --27.69------898lbs 41.24
35Whelen-250gr --24.41-----1168lbs 40.00
338-06---250gr --27.70------1112lbs 40.58
300Win---210gr --27.38------1123lbs 38.07
257 WBY-115gr --17.02-------660lbs 25.48
45-70----400gr --14.09------1115lbs 31.06 35.9lbs recoil*

Not a bad start, I always love it when I get supprised and break a pre-conseption that I have held.

 

[Kachok]

OK the numbers are in from round1 and I have completed the trajectory scoring (round 2), I did it the same way I did in my Low Recoil comparison, each score was the % of the MPBR of the flattest shooting rifle in the contest in this case the 257 WBY.
Results RD2---RD1---Total

280------84--- 92---176
270------86--- 73---159
30-06----80--- 97---177
7mm Mag-89 ---85---174
308------81----97---178--current leader!!!
7mm-08--83--- 89---172
270WSM--93--- 81--174
6.5-284--89--- 85---174
25-06----93----64---157
260Rem---85----90--175
338Fed---73--- 96---169
35 W-----74--- 88---162
338-06---73--- 96---169
300WM---82--- 92---174
257Wby--100---59--159
45-70----56----59---115

WOW at this point of the head to head 1st and 2nd place are separated by 1 point, and 3rd place is just 1 point behind that. The 25 cals have already droped off the map, they just don't carry the mass needed for this kind of game, despite their top notch trajectory it is all going downhill for them next round. I never thought the 308 would be leading in a pack like this, I am going to tripple check my numbers but WOW! Its remarkable combustion efficiency and solid external ballistics have carried it this far but will it stay No1 among such great big game rifles?
If anyone thinks my scoring system is in any way unfair, please let me know about it, I am trying to keep this as true to real world situations as possable.

 

[Craigman]

Cool chart Kachok!!! I enjoyed your other one too I printed them out to keep as reference.....lots of leg work here

 

[Maverick223]

The 280 Remington stomped the 270 win and 308 win both in trajectory and long range killing energy, and it did so with no real increase in recoil.

Yes sir, one of my absolute favorite cartridges in this class (for Elk and such). Perfect blend of bullet and case.

OTOH, there are a few of my other favorites (the .45-70Govt. and .35Whelen) that didn't fair too well, two that didn't even make the list at all (the .375H&H and 9.3x64mmBrenneke); however I believe that is mostly due to the structure of the comparison (they aren't long range, or even moderate range cartridges). I think all of the above are better suited to a dangerous game comparison than just "big game", in fact the first one (.45-70Govt.) shouldn't even be in the running for game at moderate-long range.

 

[Kachok]

This last test applies only to appropriate level of power at 300 yards, a good long shot for most hunters, the standard here is 700lbs OGW That is the aprox weight of a healthy mature bull elk last I checked. For every 10lbs below that figure minus 1 point and for every 10 lbs over add 1 point. All the effecency and trajectory in the world is pointless if you did not bring enough gun for your game. If you hunt in dense woods and only take short ranged shots disreguard this final round.
Results- RD1--RD2--RD3---Total

280-----84--- 92---N13---163
270-----86--- 73---N23---136
30-06---80--- 97---P5----182
7mm Mag-89 ---85--N3----171
308-----81----97---N17---161
7mm-08--83--- 89--N24---148
270WSM--93--- 81--N9----165
6.5-284-89--- 85---N14---160
25-06---93----64---N36---121
260Rem--85----90---N29--146
338Fed--73--- 96---N10---159
35 W----74--- 88---P1----163
338-06--73--- 96---P6----175
300WM---82--- 92---P11--185
257Wby-100--- 59---N26--133
45-70---56----59---N44----71

The all around KING of the big game hunting rifles is the tried and true 300 Win Mag.
Other calibers that earn honorable mention are the 308, and 280 for low recoil options. 7mm Rem mag and 270 WSM for remarkable flat shooting calibers. 338-06 and 30-06 for exceptionaly high all around scores.
I will make a special note here that if the bullet manufactures made a modern tipped boat tail 250gr+ .35cal the 35 Whelen would match or surpass everything on this list, sadly it's flat base soft point bullets are not up to par with the high tech bullets in other calibers.

 

[Kachok]

The 375 and 9.3mm did not belong here because of their higher recoil level. They run well above the 30lbs max and if I used highly reduced loads to put them in the running I would be getting flamed by their fans, much like I did posting the long range figures for the 45-70. I will include the 375, 9.3s, and a host of other dangerous game guns in my final comparison

 

[Maverick223]

Fair enough. None of these cartridges should ever be relegated to wussified loads.

BTW, my .45-70Govt. produces more recoil (actual and felt) than my .375H&H...go figure.

 

[Kachok]

My max loads for 375 H&H in an 8lbs rifle is 52lbs of recoil!!! Not even close to the 30lbs cut off, then again neither is the 45-70s 400gr max loads, that is why I was using a 300gr load before everyone started flaming me for it

 

[Maverick223]

My max loads for 375 H&H in an 8lbs rifle is 52lbs of recoil!

Mine are *only* about 45ft*lbs of recoil with my 350gr. solids traveling about 2350ft/s and a shade less with the 2500ft/s 300 grainers (about 41ft*lbs of recoil energy). Though my rifle is a little over 9lbs loaded and equipped with the scope. OTOH, my .45-70Govt. (which isn't scoped and weighs in at only 8lbs) puts out a staggering 55ft*lbs of recoil with the 405gr. bullets traveling about 2200ft/s, though the screaming 300s (roughly 2500ft/s out of a .45-70!) reduces that to about 44ft*lbs. That said, it isn't your standard rifle, and those are far from standard loads (well above commercial fodder and a bit over published), the .375H&H is only stoked with standard pressure loads.

 

[Tentwing]

According to your totals the century old 30-06 is only 3 small points behind the "All around King"

Sorry Kachok I had to say it I have a very soft spot for the for the 1903. As my dad used to say..... " Son me, your Uncles and a lot of other good boys made it home from the Pacific because of that 30-06 thats why there will always one hanging above the mantle over the fireplace "

And to be honest those words were probably why I bought my first one...

Tentwing

 

[Coal Dragger]

While all of these numbers are interesting for the sake of comparison, as long as a reasonably powerful bullet is placed carefully in the vitals I don't think most animals will ever know the difference.

That said the clear winner and right answer for most hunting range, power, and usefulness for your recoil "buck" is the .280 AI......

Yeah I'm biased.

 

[Kachok]

Oh no doubt the 30-06 ranked right up there with the best of them and always will IMHO. For the difference in cost of brass/powder and the reduced wear on barrels I would probably say screw the 3 points and get an 06 LOL. The 280 AI is an intresting choice. If you like I can run the numbers on it and give you a score I think my Nosler book has load data for it.

 

[Coal Dragger]

You can if you want to, from my perspective in firing the round it doesn't seem to recoil very much.

 

[Kachok]

280 AI 168gr, 2930fps, 24.6lbs recoil, 297yd MPBR, 850yd max range, 908lbs OGW@100yd, 655lbs OGW@300 yards. 101+88-5=184 points!! Nice score just 1 point behind the 300 win mag and 2 points ahead of the 06! Dang I should not have done that now I want one

 

[BrocLuno]

Yeah, but that can happen every time you do an in depth look at any cartridge. Shoot what you have and enjoy. Somewhere, something will twist your crank and start the engine running on another rifle. Don't let ballistics rule your wants. It's also about shoulder fit, balance and swing

 

[Kachok]

True but sometimes a cartrage just puts it all together just right. Speed, trajectory, rifling twist, mass, BC, SD....etc. The 308 is an example of such a round, although it did not win here, it only lost because it's near perfect ballistic ballence was a little on the light side for 300 yard elk hunting, not that there was any flaw in it's ballance.