headspace?
- Thread starter Axis II
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I have not sized them yet, but I took 10 BB LC as I got them, I have deprimed and cleaned them only.
I also took 10 BB LC brass which I have reloaded and fired once, deprimed and cleaned.
All 20 of them, when placed in the Sheridan gauge, dont go all the way in, (stick up about a quarter inch, and I have always noticed this.) the ones I have resized and fired once go in slightly further, and come out slightly easier that than first 10, which are as they came from BB, I deprimed and cleaned only.
Placing them in the Wilson gauge, The ones I got from BB and havent done anything to but deprime and clean, and the other 10 that I have reloaded and fired are very similar. The rims all stand proud like in the earlier picture, which I find typical for this gauge when I slide in a unsized fired brass.
The 10 from My gun that were previously reloaded and fired are slightly looser and fall out of the Wilson gauge slightly more easily.
Measuring them in the RCBS comparator, the first 10, which are as they came from BB and I have cleaned and deprimed measure like this: 1 piece measures 1.463, and is the longest. 3 are 1.462, 4 are 1.461, and 2 are 1.460
The 10 I have reloaded, fired (in my gun), deprimed and cleaned measure like this: 5 are 1.458, 4 are 1.459, and 1 is 1.460
Next I will size them and give new measurements. I removed the dies last night, so I will need to set and adjust them, which I will do with different brass, then I will size all 20 and remeasure.
Since you asked I size, shoot and resize and measure, I will concentrate on the 10 that have gone through my gun, the other 10 are just for comparison sake. I will take an average of the 10 that went through the gun and use that as target average.
It should be noted that ALL 20 came from BB, all 20 are circular crimp, (I find the 4 stake type can cause some odd measurements without further prep, so I avoided them, and all 20 are LC brass.
All brass, gauges, and dies are carefully cleaned.
Russellc
I also took 10 BB LC brass which I have reloaded and fired once, deprimed and cleaned.
All 20 of them, when placed in the Sheridan gauge, dont go all the way in, (stick up about a quarter inch, and I have always noticed this.) the ones I have resized and fired once go in slightly further, and come out slightly easier that than first 10, which are as they came from BB, I deprimed and cleaned only.
Placing them in the Wilson gauge, The ones I got from BB and havent done anything to but deprime and clean, and the other 10 that I have reloaded and fired are very similar. The rims all stand proud like in the earlier picture, which I find typical for this gauge when I slide in a unsized fired brass.
The 10 from My gun that were previously reloaded and fired are slightly looser and fall out of the Wilson gauge slightly more easily.
Measuring them in the RCBS comparator, the first 10, which are as they came from BB and I have cleaned and deprimed measure like this: 1 piece measures 1.463, and is the longest. 3 are 1.462, 4 are 1.461, and 2 are 1.460
The 10 I have reloaded, fired (in my gun), deprimed and cleaned measure like this: 5 are 1.458, 4 are 1.459, and 1 is 1.460
Next I will size them and give new measurements. I removed the dies last night, so I will need to set and adjust them, which I will do with different brass, then I will size all 20 and remeasure.
Since you asked I size, shoot and resize and measure, I will concentrate on the 10 that have gone through my gun, the other 10 are just for comparison sake. I will take an average of the 10 that went through the gun and use that as target average.
It should be noted that ALL 20 came from BB, all 20 are circular crimp, (I find the 4 stake type can cause some odd measurements without further prep, so I avoided them, and all 20 are LC brass.
All brass, gauges, and dies are carefully cleaned.
Russellc
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Average of the 10 through my gun is 1.4586. minus .003 = 1.4556, 1.4586 minus .004 = 1.4546.
Adding these two together and dividing by 2 = 1.4551 so this will be target length.
Walkalong, before I go further, have I made a mistake or would you like to see a different target length or method?
I will wait until tomorrow for the resize. A little tired tonight.
Thanks,
Russellc
Adding these two together and dividing by 2 = 1.4551 so this will be target length.
Walkalong, before I go further, have I made a mistake or would you like to see a different target length or method?
I will wait until tomorrow for the resize. A little tired tonight.
Thanks,
Russellc
I missed that the brass that didn't fit the gauge didn't come from your gun, which is where I got confused.
Average fired is 1.4586. Subtract .003 and you have 1.4556. Round up or down (Which ever one you like) and go with that. This should fit the Wilson gauge and fall between the upper and lower surfaces. Min and Max headspace.
When I adjusted my .223 die I made sure it was set up so that all of the cases were between the two surfaces. Some were closer to the bottom and some were closer to the top (Simply the difference in case hardness and resistance to sizing when using mixed brass.)
I get 100% function and cases last until the primer pockets get loose or the necks crack. It's almost always loose primer pockets. Point being, case life is still very good that way.
Average fired is 1.4586. Subtract .003 and you have 1.4556. Round up or down (Which ever one you like) and go with that. This should fit the Wilson gauge and fall between the upper and lower surfaces. Min and Max headspace.
When I adjusted my .223 die I made sure it was set up so that all of the cases were between the two surfaces. Some were closer to the bottom and some were closer to the top (Simply the difference in case hardness and resistance to sizing when using mixed brass.)
I get 100% function and cases last until the primer pockets get loose or the necks crack. It's almost always loose primer pockets. Point being, case life is still very good that way.
Couldnt resist doing one...it has gone through my gun, in the Hornady comparator, it was 1.459
Sizer put it to 1.455...Fits successfully in both the sheridan and the Wilson. With depth micrometer on it
it shows one thousandth under what it considers max...I always thought this micrometer is a touch conservative, which seems to bear out on the Hornady comparator, which shows shoulder pushed back .004", more tomorrow, I should have delivery of the RCBS precision mic by then to add to the confusion.
Russellc
Sizer put it to 1.455...Fits successfully in both the sheridan and the Wilson. With depth micrometer on it
it shows one thousandth under what it considers max...I always thought this micrometer is a touch conservative, which seems to bear out on the Hornady comparator, which shows shoulder pushed back .004", more tomorrow, I should have delivery of the RCBS precision mic by then to add to the confusion.
Russellc
JimKirk
Member
Russell .... You can't really measure fired brass(from brassbombers) for the simple reason they most likely have been fired in different chambers .. if it were possible to fire the same brass in two different chambers ... you'd get two different measurements ....
Size the brass .... adjusting your die ... trying to get them to fit the gauge ...
JimKirk
Member
Maybe I confused what you said with what you meant ... my bad ....
A man with two watches.....
Blue68f100
Member
Sounds like you have your sizing die adjusted down now to push the shoulder back as it should.
Just out of curiosity what brand calipers are you using. The reason I ask is I have a pair of HF (china junk) that are not accurate when in certain ranges, off 0.002-0.003". The reason I found this was I had a pin gauge set that got nicked over and started measuring them, when I discovered them being off.
JimKirk
Member
Back to the mistakenly so call "headspace measurement" ... Here is a photo of a Sinclair Hex nut Comparator next to a home made bigger version using a larger hex nut with six drilled holes ... works well for brass as does the one for bullets ....
JimKirk
Member
Post #90 is just a photo op and not an actual measurement ... here is a photo op of the Sinclair Hex nut ... but is probably closer to a real measurement .... The Sinclair Hex nut comes in two sizes and cover many calibers ... the home made nut can be made whatever hole size that is needed ...as long as you have the correct bit size ...
Thanks to Walkalong, Bart B, ReloadRon and everyone else who contributed to this. I went by HD and found some nylon bushings with an ID of 0.328 inches. A little math gave me the distance from the bolt face to this diameter on the neck. I'm really happy with my $0.40 5.56 case gauge. Worth every penny.
No reason given. In fact, the recommendation is not found in all versions of the manual that I have. More recent editions that I downloaded from the Savage website do not contain it; they just have no fewer than three bold print warnings salted throughout the booklet that if you shoot reloaded ammunition your warranty is void.
I see no reason to void the use of small base dies yet allow others. They make case body diameters about half way between new case diameters and normal full length die sized case diameters.
As rifle companies have no control of the ammo customers use in them, they're wise to void reloads. Especially those with belted cases so many load way over maximum.
As rifle companies have no control of the ammo customers use in them, they're wise to void reloads. Especially those with belted cases so many load way over maximum.
Only if the chambers were different sizes.
JimKirk
Member
Yeap Bart ...You're right .... I am sure every chamber that you've measured was exactly the same ...right?
I sometimes leave out words like "PROBABLY" ...
Right. For example, all the ones I measured were in 308 Win and 7.62 NATO new barrels that were headspaced at 1.630" for best accuracy with new cases when installed in the rifles I used. Never measured chamber headspace on others.
Had I measured others, probably not. They all have some spread; some less than
.001" as those I mentioned did but that's insignificant to me so they're the same.
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JimKirk
Member
Yeap ....
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