Heard the second loudest sound today...

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Mtnvalley

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that of course being a gun that goes "click" when it's supposed to go boom. Most of us have heard that now and again, but this one shook me up.

Why? Because it was the first round of my carry ammo, in my carry gun. I hadn't shot off the carry mag for a couple months, but have jacked that round out (and subsequently loaded it back on top in the mag) probably two dozen times, in between dry practice sessions and shooting that gun with practice ammo.

The thought that the first round I could be staking my life on gave me "the loudest click" actually scared me. It was a light strike, probably would have fired if I reloaded it...but I'm keeping it on my desk as a reminder to either fire off my carry ammo at least once a month, or just take the ejected round out of the carry rotation every time I clear that gun.
 
It could be the ammo, or it could be the gun. I find my Taurus gives me light-strikes on ammo my Glock fires with no problem. However, the Glock has extraction problems (1%) with Blazer Aluminum.

Maybe it's the gun. Maybe it's the ammo. Are we talking about UMC JHP in a Hi-Point or Ranger T in a P2000SK?
 
A click instead of a bang is probably the loudest sound in the world.
Made even louder if an immediate threat is in the sights.
 
I hadn't shot off the carry mag for a couple months, but have jacked that round out (. . . and subsequently loaded it back on top in the mag) probably two dozen times . . .
Click to expand...
I'm keeping it on my desk as a reminder to either fire off my carry ammo at least once a month . . .
Click to expand...
Recycling ammo in and out of the chamber can cause bullet setback, not light primer strikes.
 
If there's a light primer strike, that's would suggest to me the problem lying with your weapon, not the ammo.
 
The newer "lead free" primers go bad much faster. Make sure your using a round with a primer with a long shelf life. If it has a several decade long shelf life then it should have a decent fraction of that while carried in a chamber or mag that sees daily air and moisture content, is exposed to environmental pollutants, gun oils etc.

If however it has just a couple year shelf life, then how long it can last in your arm could range from weeks to months. Definately not something you want to stake your life on.
IMHO use a round with a primer that has passed the test of being stored for decades and then firing perfectly round after round. You can still fire world war 2 military surplus and it tends to go bang.
Once any of the newer primers have existed that long feel free to switch over.

Lead styphnate is already a compromise, but is very stable and has a long shelf life. It does not form any corrosive compounds with the metals and is not reactive with the metals. Lead azide is slightly corrosive, and one must clean the gun thoroughly to nuetralize it, but it is extremely reliable and has a good track record. I would rather risk my life depending on either than anything else out there.

If you research the history of various primer compositions you see a lot of work and field testing went into them. They have been tried and fielded in wars where millions of rounds have been fired and then improved upon further. Expecting someone to just "come up" with something to suite current whims and "health" concerns that meets or exceeds all the same standards without ever going through all that trial and error is unrealistic. It may normaly do the job at the range, but don't base your life on it.

If you research the actual chemicals of many of the new primers, not the sales pitch of a particular brand, you will see they decompose much more readily to a host of conditions. Some are hydroscopic, and tend to readily absorb moisture. Others are sensative to temperature, and while it might take a high temperature to quickly render them unsuable, they become less and less reliable to lesser temperature exposure over time. None have passed the test of time. You don't want something that could get even less sensative or more sensative with age. You want it to go bang wheny you pull the trigger, and you dont want it to go bang if it gets jarred.
 
Ammo was Gold Dot 165 HP, in an XD40 that's had a few thousand down the pipe (including a few hundred of this specific ammo). I have four XD's, and it's extremely rare for me to have a malf in three of them (and no, this wasn't the fourth ;-) ). There were no light primer strikes for the rest of that mag, nor in 100+ rounds of practice ammo shot through the same gun during the same session.

I currently attribute the failure to the individual round. Whether or not it's fully a result of the round having been cycled that many times or not, I dunno. I do know it's a variable I can (and will) easily eliminate. I know that at the last couple classes I've attended, the instructors strongly discouraged "range carping" unfired rounds that we'd ejected; perhaps this is an example of the reason why. Thanks much for the responses and input- I'll post further should I find anything more specific when I next visit the range, as I'll be bringing and shooting another 100 or so of the Gold Dot.
 
my 35 whelen chambered 700 classic went click on a nice 11 pt buck once in winter. that was a very loud sound as well. 3 hrs later a smaller 8 pt walked by and the gun fired off perfectly.... go figure
 
this scenario is the reason i carry a double action for my CCW (Keltec p11). even then, there can still be problems. you should practice with your carry weapon and learn to clear it quickly.

TRS = Tap, Rack, Shoot

Tap (slap your palm into the bottom of the magazine to ensure its seated)

Rack (rack the slide to clear any possable FTFire, FTFeed, FTE)

Shoot!


practice people, and be SAFE............ oh and have fun.;)
 
Ammo was Gold Dot 165 HP, in an XD40 that's had a few thousand down the pipe (including a few hundred of this specific ammo). I have four XD's, and it's extremely rare for me to have a malf in three of them (and no, this wasn't the fourth ;-) ). There were no light primer strikes for the rest of that mag, nor in 100+ rounds of practice ammo shot through the same gun during the same session.
Click to expand...

My main point above was that most of the newer primer types will work very reliably taken out of the box and loaded at the range. Firing hundreds of rounds without failure. They wouldn't be sold by reputable companies if they didn't.
However exposed to the long term conditions a round in the tube or a magazine is subjected to they can deteriorate more rapidly. So hundreds of rounds reliably fired at the range speaks more for the firearm than for the ammunitions reliability at a future date. The round in the tube faces the highest level of moisture etc and therefore is the most likely to fail sooner.

Whether or not it's fully a result of the round having been cycled that many times or not, I dunno.
Click to expand...
I honestly dont see how multiple chamberings could effect the primer of a round, bullet setback could become an issue (potentialy creating unsafe pressures especialy in rounds with little flexibility like .40SW) , but that should not effect whether or not the round is ignited and fires. The part of the round struck is still the same dimensions, the primer is still in the same spot, and the powder is still in the round. I would venture it is to avoid dangers from bullet setback.

Does anyone know the type of primer that specific round uses?
 
That sucks and is an eye opener!

How fast was your tap-rack-bang (you DID do that didn't you?)
Gotta practice those for times when it counts!
 
Thx for the clarification, Zoogster et al. I'm going to research this a bit further.

And DTDrew? Thanks for the tip. You wouldn't know this, but I always clear a malf at full speed, even slowfiring at the indoor range. For a type 1 or 2 (same drill, tap-rack-flip), I run between 1 and 1.2 in practice when I know it's coming. Add a half-second or so for my pea-brain to grasp the situation when it's a surprise. :rolleyes: If the round hadn't stayed on my side of the partition, I wouldn't have found out about the light strike, as I definitely do not gaze at a jammed gun in wonderment and surprise.

Type 3's (double-feeds), I run about 4.6-5.5 (+ reaction time). One of my XD's feels a sporadic need to test me on this when it's being shot a lot.
 
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is it possible that it was just slightly out of battery from being holstered or riding the slide forward last time you chambered the round?

Bobby
 
I had a dud 7.62*39 Wolf round like that once. It had been chambered and cleared numerous times. Tried it again and it still didn't go off. Only one that ever failed.

Doesn't make any logical sense why repeated chambering/clearing cycles could affect the primer/powder, but who knows ...?
 
A thought comes to mind, though it may be just that, rather than an explaination. The 40S&W headspaces off the front of the case, so if there's any shortage of case length, it'll occur at the back, particularly if carried muzzle down, as is standard practice. With all of those rounds already fired through his pistol, and the repeated loadings of the top round like that...

1:could the front of his chamber be worn in such a way that the casing developed the slightest of roll-crimp that allowed the case to gap headspace too much for a solid primer strike?
-Alternatively, could the case have simply rolled a bit to allow this despite a good chamber?

2:Maybe he simply got an out of spec case. A rarety for SD ammo, I know, but still possible.

MtnValley, if you could get a micrometer measurement of the very front edge of the case on the outside diameter, and also the length of the case from rim to mouth at 5-6 points around it, the resulting info might tell us something. Also, inspect the leading edge of the case mouth to see whether it might have been rolled over a bit. On 40 cals, it should be perfectly squared off, almost sharp.
 
Compare the primer to the primer on a fired case from the same mag. Do they look the same, or does the dud round look like less of a dimple?

I know that after carrying my Glock 19 for a month, the first round I fire releases a cloud of lint and dust. Same for my Kel-Tec P3AT. I stuffed a bunch of lint in front of the hammer of my P3AT to see how much it would take before it wouldn't fire. It took a lot, but I ended up with a light hammer strike. Could there have been a bit of lint in your XD?
 
Good thing it didn't shoot. Putting the round in the chamber that many times will probably cause setback. This is very dangerous because the pressure inside the round may dramatically increase.

I recommend you allow a round to go into the chamber at MOST three times. The first two are for your carry rig and the third time is when you shoot it for practice.
 
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