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Helicopter Pig Hunting

Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Boba Fett, Dec 4, 2009.

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  1. dubbleA

    dubbleA Member

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    Most are left where they lay, If they are close to homes and such efforts will be made to move them. It doesnt take long for the buzzards to find them, the bones will be scattered about but to my knowledge dont present any problems.

    On another note it simply foolish to think that letting mass quanities of elmer fudds come on a your property and hunt hogs in a conventional matter will do anything to help. Hogs do resond to hunting pressure just like deer do. Feral hogs are mostly nocturnal to begin with and will go strictly nocturnal when pressured. That's where taking to the air is so effective as they can be made to move out of their day time bedding areas. You can kill more hogs in a day of flying than the average hunter will see in a lifetime.
     
  2. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    "So sick of "oh the poor farmers & ranchers..." Don't like having to overcome problems that mother nature deals out to you? Then sell your land and come to the city and get a job like the rest of us."

    Tad, you're bound to be aware that food does NOT originate ready-prepared in a grocery store. That farms and ranches are a necessary part of your staying alive. "If you eat, you're involved in agriculture."

    If you can come up with a more humane and efficacious yet less expensive way to eliminate the feral hog problem, you'll likely make a million bucks and be hailed as an agricultural messiah.

    I suggest you try farming or ranching in feral hog country for five years or so, and report back on the ease of humane pest control and the profitability of your operation.

    I was raised farming and ranching. From 1967 through 1980 I had a town job as a professional engineer while also running a small ranching operation. I'm sort of a voice of experience that in comparison, a town job is a lead-pipe cinch. Much less responsibility and much easier thought processes.

    Nope. Cockroaches with cloven hoofs.
     
  3. schlockinz

    schlockinz Member

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    post removed
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  4. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    Hunters paying a hundred or two hundred dollars to harvest a pig or two will do very little, likely nothing in terms of affecting the hog population. This doesn't begin to address the logistic/liability problems of having many strangers (it would have to be a huge number to get enough paying people to kill enough hogs to matter) on your land. Opening the land up creates a whole different set of problems and expenses and is simply unlikely to affect the population. I know of people who hunt hogs nearly every night of the week and the population is still going strong in the areas the hunt.

    I take it you are not an attorney, have no legal training, and don't even bother to look up laws before referencing them. Maybe in the blue states they draft animal cruelty laws that way but where I live they specifically have provision exempting hunting and agricultural practices. Also the state many places uses similar tactics themselves to control the population of various animals. If one can put a catch dog in a pen with a trapped hog to train it and be perfectly clear of such laws shooting from a helicopter would be a mighty stretch. Go look up ALL pertinent laws before before you spout such non sense.

    Others have sufficiently pointed out how stupid your comments about move to the city and get a job are.

    That is a good logical fallacy to throw in there. It is on par with the rest of your post in terms of logic and soundness of argumentation.

    I find it interesting that you feel free to assign your values and perceptions of certain actions to people and assert they are definitive. Do you hunt at all? Many people point out that what you refer to as "ethical hunting" causes animals to be wounded, lost to die slow deaths, and even in better situations exposed to cruel pain and torture. They assert correctly that few hunters need to hunt to eat and thus it is simply needlessly inflicting pain on poor animals for the pleasure of killing. They assert that anyone with morals would not condone it. Your assertions echo theirs, the line is simply drawn in a different place. Who is right?

    Are you a vegetarian? Look at industrial farming practices. Look at where your chicken come from. People argue that eating it is immoral and no one with a conscious would ever do it. They also sound a lot like your soap box post.

    What is scary is how many people are perfectly willing to think that their subjective views of right and wrong ought to be binding on other people. It is even more frightening when people exhibit a clear lack of understanding of the underlying issues and still insist their views are correct, morally superior and the only acceptable view point. It reminds be of anti gun folk, anti hunting folk, and radical Islamists amongst others.

    This statement ignores the fact that Bison are radically diferent than hogs in several important respects. For example when was the last time you saw a bison being trailed by six calves? You may want to look into the gestation periods of the two animals as well.

    How do you purport to know that with out knowing the cost of damages from the hogs and the cost of hiring these people to shoot them. Large farming operations are out to make a profit. I have studied enough economics to a little bit about marginal costs and marginal benefits and how they drive peoples decisions. I am guessing that if a business looking to turn a profit has resulted to hiring them there is a good chance they believe it is cost effective. With out knowing the numbers I cannot say, but neither can you.

    It would be interesting to hear how people would change their tune if their livelihoods were at stake.

    As others have said this is not hunting it is population control and it is likely needed in many places.
     
  5. Girodin

    Girodin Member

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    That is not the argument at all. The argument is that letting a bunch of people on your land is likely to be more costly or offer disadvantages greater than paying someone to fly around and shoot them. A land owner is free to make that choice.

    Maybe you should state your experience hunting hogs it would give your opinions a lot more validity or show that they are based on theory, and likely uniformed theorizing at that.

    I for one am doubtful based on what I have seen of people who hunt the same areas regularly or even constantly attempt to trap on their land that the populations can be controlled with ground shooting, trapping, dogs, etc. Can shooting them from choppers do it? IDK but it stands a better chance.
     
  6. hossfly

    hossfly Member

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    Yeah that wasn't the smartest comment that's ever been made. I can assume he said it because he is a sportsman and has good convictions about clean kills and sportsmanship.

    I agree with the poster that you want these things done as quickly and humanely as possible and they don't always go hand in hand. This isn't recreation, which hunting is, this is plain old depredation control. And feral hogs reproduce like rats and can be WAAAYYYY out of control before you've even gotten a good handle on the idea that they're in your area. This is one heck of a good way to deal with them when the terrain allows for it.
     
  7. kyle1974

    kyle1974 Member

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    DFW.. I admit, I have no idea what kind of weapons you use to hunt... all I know is your reference to mosin nagants leads me to beleive superior accuracy isn't your primary concern...

    as far as a group of 15 people killing a statistically larger number of hogs.. I would also like to see that... I can see it now..

    Guy #1 "I'm going to shoot the one with the black spot on his left shoulder,

    guy #2, I'm going to shoot the black one with the white spot on his shoulder that's facing right.

    Guy #3, you shoot the black spotted one facing left...

    Guy#4.... wait.. is guy #3 shooting the one facing right or left? because the on taht was facing right, is now kinda facing away>...

    now work that out with 10 guys at a time on a group of hogs, and you've got a video worthy of guiness book or records.
     
  8. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Actually, lots of species of animals can and many are vertebrates, though none are mammals or birds. I don't think any are reptiles either. Certainly many fish and amphibians can. Some species have the ability to switch back and forth between being male and being female and do so multiple times. It is called sequential hermaphrodotism.

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1200/is_n9_v137/ai_8784789/
    http://www.zoo.ox.ac.uk/group/west/.../www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/137573.php
     
  9. HoosierQ

    HoosierQ Member

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    I say this to you all. I too find this rather disgusting...but....

    Look to history. Before the Vikings landed in Iceland the place was covered by forest. Because of the extreme northern latitude of the place, the environment was pretty fragile. It was generally assumed that the Vikings, the people, cut down all the trees for firewood and to build boats.

    Archaeology now suggests strongly that pigs turned loosed or escaped did the worst damage by eating the small seedlings and saplings and devouring the seeds and acorns and what have you. Look at Iceland today...the land of fire and ice...but not of trees. Iceland is an example of one of the worst ecological disasters in mankind...and pigs did it.

    So...like RCMODEL said way above, this is a problem that can get very bad (and obviously is...I am in Indiana and it isn't here yet that I know of).

    Drastic times call for drastic measures. I would not enjoy it even though I would endorse it being done for the sake of indiginous species, flora and fauna.
     
  10. RockinU

    RockinU Member

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    A quick humane death? You ever seen a big cat kill? Or a pack of coyotes or wolves? There is nothing natural about a quick humane death, and until recently it hasn't even been that common. I guess you would rather the farmers do the slow suffering through loss of income. Please, I have had to pay the expenses of hog damage out of my own pocket. I have had to spend my weekend on a tractor trying to straighten out the mess they leave. I just want them dead, and I don't care how long it takes them to die...just as long as they do.
     
  11. RockinU

    RockinU Member

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    I saw them go back for some finishing shots. I would also say that I was impressed with how many of the shots looked like head/neck shots that didn't need to be cleaned up.
     
  12. Ankeny

    Ankeny Member

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    I live in Wyoming and we don't have pigs. As an outsider looking in, this thread has been very educational, from the stand point of the feral pig population, and from the stand point of ethics, belief systems, etc. being different from one geographical area to the next. As far as the video, I consider myself a moral and ethical hunter and I see no problem with aerial gunning to control feral pigs. I also see nothing wrong with the pilot and the gunner enjoying their jobs. :)
     
  13. RockinU

    RockinU Member

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    Oh your holiness, where to begin. Get a job like the rest of us? You really have no idea or appreciation to the work and toil that provides you with food and fiber do you? The animals are not maimed or tortured, it looked like they were occasionally wounded, and as has been already posted they would have to be finished just like a poorly shot deer (happens all the time), because they couldn't just be left in the fields. You may not feel that any human lives are at stake here, but your living doesn't depend on making a crop, so your opinion doesn't hold much water there does it. It's easy for you to sit in town all safe and protected, living off the produce of others labors and condemn the steps they take to insure it's production isn't it? You know, despite their anatomical similarity to anything or anyone, they are cockroaches, they do need to be eradicated, and if that offends you, don't look.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  14. RockinU

    RockinU Member

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    You sir are not aware of all the facts. Comparing pigs to Bison is ridiculous. You are comparing an animal that has 1 baby a year to one that has up to 25. You are comparing an animal that would just stand and watch the rest of it's herd being shot and wait it's turn to an animal that is wiley and hard to hunt.

    It is estimated that once a breeding sow reaches breeding age at 7-8 months that in a five year period she can be responsible for 1000 more pigs (her offspring+her offspring's offspring) we already have over 2 million in this state doing roughly 60 million in crop damage a year, not counting the costs of attempting to control them. As for allowing hunters to come in, lots of people do, and it's not enough. It's not like you can just drive out to a pasture and shoot all the hogs that are in it...doesn't work that way. Not to mention the liability factors in letting people you don't know on your land with firearms (it has already been mentioned in this thread, but the nay-sayers continue to ignore it). Not to mention that sometimes hunters can do as much damage to land as the hogs themselves (guys with 4-wheel drive just can't help themselves sometimes). Do you really think if this wasn't a cost effective manner that they would do it? Do you really think that they would resort to this if they weren't desperate?

    You people that have never had to deal with this just don't understand.

    Edited to say: One Texas county did offer a bounty on hogs a couple of years ago. The money they had budgeted for the entire year was used up in 4 months with no discernible decline in overall hog population.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  15. Fremmer

    Fremmer Member

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    Sorry, my prior posts on this Thread were unacceptable. I'll try not to let it happen again.
     
  16. plumberroy

    plumberroy Member

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    First off I am not anti farmer or rancher I have a lot of friends that are farmers I have worked on cattle ranches in Ok right out of high school I baled hay and worked in layer houses for extra money in high school and still go out and pull grain in or run the combine while they go eat or milk. and being a plumber I have went out at 11:00 pm to get water going(and not charged them)
    I also have personly seen coyotes take down deer and watched wolves and big cats on t.v. the difference we know right and wrong and have it in our abilty to make humane kills
    I saw somewhere in this thread liability waivers don't stand up ,well you need to get on your state reps about that . Here in Ohio if you download the state permission to hunt slip it is also a liability waiver it stands up because it is state law. I have removed a few hogs in florida when I lived down there I have went in around here where ground hogs have eaten 20 acres of beans before on a number of ocassions and and have them not loose a bean the next time beans are planted I have killed deer on crop damage permits for farmer I have on ocassion called the farmers about sick cattle downed fences hearded cows back in and fixed the fence only thing I ever ask in exchange was hunting rights in the fall and winter
    If they had someone on a quad or dirtbike running behind them on the ground finishing hogs I wouldnt have a problem with it. Hell if I lived close I'd do it for you. I'd come out and help straghten stuff out I'm pretty good on a backhoe or bobcat I think over a little time I could put a pretty good dent in the hogs I'm fairly persistant
    Roy
     
  17. RockinU

    RockinU Member

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    Look man, I know you mean well, but you just don't get it. Simply hunting them ISN'T WORKING. It's not like we just started this, we've been dealing with it a while now. You have no idea how popular hog hunting is here. There are web-sites dedicated to it, clubs for it, contests about it...people here love to hunt hogs, but they can't keep up. We hunt them with dogs at night, we hunt them over bait during the day. We try to drive them, and trap them, and use any other number of methods...but they are still winning! I know many think "I could help deal with that problem"...no you can't, because the methods we have used for a long time to control populations of other animals like deer are NOT WORKING. That is why some are resorting to more extreme methods.

    I feel like I am beating my head against a wall here. I know ya'll don't understand, and no matter how many times I try to explain it to you, you still won't...but let me say it one more time: Conventional hunting methods are not sufficient to control wild hog populations, and Texas is proof of it.
     
  18. DWFan

    DWFan Member

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    You're right, RockinU. I really don't understand.
    I don't understand how a bounty on the hogs was ended more than 5 years ago after a pay-out of less than $20,000. That's not much of a budget for such a severe problem; especially compared to the alternative cost of the operation of a helicopter to take out perhaps 150-200 hogs when the single year bounty experiment netted over 2000. (Numbers gotten from The Texas Dept. of Agriculture and Van Zandt County.)
    I don't understand if hunters are allowed access to property and the animals are so prevalent, that hunting "ranches" in that area can make any money charging anywhere from $300 to $2000 per hunter with a single or two-hog limit per hunter. To me that's like a gun store asking top dollar for ammo that another dealer down the street is giving away for free...or even paying to take off their hands.
    Maybe it's because I can't see it first hand; but you are right, I don't understand.
     
  19. Boba Fett

    Boba Fett Member

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    Have a link for those numbers DWFan?
     
  20. plumberroy

    plumberroy Member

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    RockinU this is the only problem I have with anything you have said. I understand It is your livelyhood . I have a hard time believing you can't to find a early 20's country boy in Texas with a quad and a 357 that would just love to follow the chopper and finish of the hogs humanely
     
  21. X-Rap

    X-Rap Member

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    I watched the video again and it really looks like most of them are pretty well done in. I also see a laser dot in some of the ffotage and that probably helps if its not to bright out.
     
  22. Boba Fett

    Boba Fett Member

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    OK. Some interesting stats DWFan, but not really making the case for the "hunters on the farm" method.

    The link you PMed me did have some good info in it though.
    http://www.hpj.com/archives/2005/may05/may16/Texashogpopulationwreakingh.CFM

    What I really find interesting was the following:
    (please note that the article was written in 2005, the program started in 2003 and therefore ran for one year).

    So that is $14,000 per year producing only 2000 hogs per year. Or about 5.5 per day.

    I don't know how much it costs for the guys in the helicopter, but in one day, they scored approximately 52.


    So that is 5.5 hogs per day versus 52 hogs per day.


    So...seems like the helicopter crew's stats are doing better than the county paid residents' stats.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  23. DWFan

    DWFan Member

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    That article is dated 2005, Boba Fett, so if the bounty was started two years earlier and ran to 2004, it was started in 2003 and only lasted 1 year. Who's to say how successful it could have become? How many hunters, even just those in Texas, even knew about it?

    By the way, if you read the article, the replacement was a half-million dollar study by the state. A half million is equal to the bounty for nearly 71,500 hogs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  24. kyle1974

    kyle1974 Member

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    the reason the program ended was because it ran out of funding, not because it wasn't a success...

    There are plenty of other texas counties that have bounties on wild hogs right now.
     
  25. DWFan

    DWFan Member

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    What ones?
     
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