im trying to get my first "battle rifle" since ive recently sold my ak....but ive been reading alot about cetmes but i have the chance to get either...it seems like 7.62x54 is cheaper to shoot right now because of surplus everywhere......i have the oportunity to get the cetme for 429+ tax and the SVD tennessee arms dragunov for 600..both are brand new....help me decide please lol
help me decide...CETME or SVD?
- Thread starter Xmm
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selector67
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If I was you, I would get the SVD, since CETMEs have some issues being put together by Century Arms, its a crap shoot with them, either you got a good one, or you dont, unless you can take it out and shoot it before you buy it. Go for the SVD, ammo is cheaper, and they are reliable.
ForeverArmed
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I second the SVD.
Nightcrawler
Member
The "FPK", as it's referred to, is a Romanian PSL. It's not a true Dragunov, but a long-action Kalashnikov type.
Between than and the CETME, though, I'd have to go with the PSL.
Between than and the CETME, though, I'd have to go with the PSL.
Ian Sean
Member
I am a victim of a Century CETME, mine had a ground bolt and minimal headspace. Had to install oversize bolt rollers.
It shoots fine, but as was mentioned they can be a crapshoot.
Another consideration is cost and scarcity of surplus 7.62 NATO compared to 7.62x54....well I would go for the PSL also just because of the ammo.
It shoots fine, but as was mentioned they can be a crapshoot.
Another consideration is cost and scarcity of surplus 7.62 NATO compared to 7.62x54....well I would go for the PSL also just because of the ammo.
jagdpanzer347
Member
Xmm, welcome to THR. A CETME would definately be a better battle rifle than a PSL. The PSL is more of a designated marksmans rifle. As previously noted, Century CETMEs can be very hit or miss quality wise, so be careful if you go that route. Cetmerifle.com is a great source of info on these rifles.
Two other rifles that bear consideration in this price range would be a CMP M1 Garand and a Saiga .308. Check'em out, you might be pleasantly surprised.
-jagd
Two other rifles that bear consideration in this price range would be a CMP M1 Garand and a Saiga .308. Check'em out, you might be pleasantly surprised.
-jagd
As mentioned you'r NOT talking about a "true" SVD (Russian "sniper or DMR)...I've looked at the Romanians (PSL-I originally wanted one) and they are crude at best, and nothing like a true SVD.
The Cetmes I've looked at were OK for the money, and considerably less than the PSL.
Now, if I could get a "real" SVD for under $1000, that's would be my choice, but for a "battle rifle" the Cetmes are OK, and reasonable.
Remember that while 7.62x54R is cheap, it'snot very accurate (in my experience)...Almost any .308 will be more accurate.
The Cetmes I've looked at were OK for the money, and considerably less than the PSL.
Now, if I could get a "real" SVD for under $1000, that's would be my choice, but for a "battle rifle" the Cetmes are OK, and reasonable.
Remember that while 7.62x54R is cheap, it'snot very accurate (in my experience)...Almost any .308 will be more accurate.
possum
Member
xmm,
why in the world did you sell your ak,:banghead: that is a good place to start, but i would go with the psl, fpk, etc, because they are mean loking as hell, and how many people do you see with them really? go against the flow get the psl. i think they are quite neat and there are several articales around that can help you zero the scope, and tell yu what the parts of the reticle mean and such, there is a wealth of info about them. they can be accurate for sure not m24 bolt gun accurate but that isn't what they were designed for. they are an Infantry support weapon and you should have no issue accuratly engaging targets at 400+yds, go with a little better scope and you might could push it out farther.
why in the world did you sell your ak,:banghead: that is a good place to start, but i would go with the psl, fpk, etc, because they are mean loking as hell, and how many people do you see with them really? go against the flow get the psl. i think they are quite neat and there are several articales around that can help you zero the scope, and tell yu what the parts of the reticle mean and such, there is a wealth of info about them. they can be accurate for sure not m24 bolt gun accurate but that isn't what they were designed for. they are an Infantry support weapon and you should have no issue accuratly engaging targets at 400+yds, go with a little better scope and you might could push it out farther.
rbernie
Contributing Member
CETMEs are far less expensive than a PSL; I bought two in the last couple of months for less than $500 each, as opposed to $800+ for a PSL. Also, it's really quite trivial to perform a basic inspection to tell if you're getting a good one or not. The biggest issue is making sure that the bolt gap and bolt head are correct. That can be determined via a simple inspection that can be done without disassembly of the rifle in about ten seconds or less, using nothing fancier than your eyeball and a strip of copier paper as a feeler gauge.
CETME magazines are quite plentiful, and surplus G3 mags for the CETME can be had for $2/each or less. PSL magazines are not common and not cheap.
Neither rifle has stellar ergonomics. The PSL probably is a little faster to drop/replace mags than the CETME. The CETME is shorter and better at CQB than the PSL (although neither are designed for it and there undoubtedly are better tools for CQB than the CETME or PSL).
The CETME iron sights are worlds better than the PSL.
Parts availability and accessories clearly favors the CETME.
Surplus ammo cost and availability favors the PSL, but the CETME runs fine on WOLF for those occasions when you can't find proper NATO 7.62x51 MilSurp.
CETME magazines are quite plentiful, and surplus G3 mags for the CETME can be had for $2/each or less. PSL magazines are not common and not cheap.
Neither rifle has stellar ergonomics. The PSL probably is a little faster to drop/replace mags than the CETME. The CETME is shorter and better at CQB than the PSL (although neither are designed for it and there undoubtedly are better tools for CQB than the CETME or PSL).
The CETME iron sights are worlds better than the PSL.
Parts availability and accessories clearly favors the CETME.
Surplus ammo cost and availability favors the PSL, but the CETME runs fine on WOLF for those occasions when you can't find proper NATO 7.62x51 MilSurp.
armoredman
Member
I had a CETME, and I would not have one again. Anything put together by Century, but they destroyed more CETME kits than anything else. Good rifles totalled by drunken monkeys.
I would love one of the Romainian Drag/AK clones, especially the short barreled one with a red dot instead of scope. I don't intend on getting into heavy combat, and that may be a good compromise on a budget, as a survival style rifle, and defensive rifle.
Maybe you could just get another decent AK, and have the best of both worlds...
I would love one of the Romainian Drag/AK clones, especially the short barreled one with a red dot instead of scope. I don't intend on getting into heavy combat, and that may be a good compromise on a budget, as a survival style rifle, and defensive rifle.
Maybe you could just get another decent AK, and have the best of both worlds...
Tomac
Member
1. What TA is selling is not a Dragunov. It's the Romanian designated marksman rifle (Romak-3, FPK, PSL, SSG-97, they're all the same) designed to do the same job but is based on the AK action, not the short stroke Dragunov action. Completely different creatures w/a passing resemblence.
2. The TA rifle is not a battle rifle and is not designed to take the high volume of fire that the CETME is but the CETME wasn't designed for the level of accuracy the TA rifle is capable of w/good ammo (using the original 4x scope & surplus Russian "188" ammo at 900m I managed 8 hits out of 50 slow fire on a std silhouette, exactly the predicted percentage for the SVD at that range). W/currently available 7N1 sniper ammo (good ammo but not match grade) the TA rifle should provide decent results out to the limits of the cartridge.
For those looking for the most accuracy in a semi-auto .308 then look no further than the NDM-86 Dragunov (if you can find one, only 1,000 were made in the late '80's as part of a special order):
Here's one of mine in current SVD black polymer furniture w/a Russian bipod & 8x scope:
Using budget 168gr match ammo my best ctc 3-shot group at 100yds is .24", my best ctc 4-shot group at 100yds is .44" and my best 3-shot ctc group at 500m is 4.5" (and I'm not a trained shooter).
Tomac
2. The TA rifle is not a battle rifle and is not designed to take the high volume of fire that the CETME is but the CETME wasn't designed for the level of accuracy the TA rifle is capable of w/good ammo (using the original 4x scope & surplus Russian "188" ammo at 900m I managed 8 hits out of 50 slow fire on a std silhouette, exactly the predicted percentage for the SVD at that range). W/currently available 7N1 sniper ammo (good ammo but not match grade) the TA rifle should provide decent results out to the limits of the cartridge.
For those looking for the most accuracy in a semi-auto .308 then look no further than the NDM-86 Dragunov (if you can find one, only 1,000 were made in the late '80's as part of a special order):
Here's one of mine in current SVD black polymer furniture w/a Russian bipod & 8x scope:
Using budget 168gr match ammo my best ctc 3-shot group at 100yds is .24", my best ctc 4-shot group at 100yds is .44" and my best 3-shot ctc group at 500m is 4.5" (and I'm not a trained shooter).
Tomac
armoredman
Member
Nice rifles, tomak -what camo is that?
Tomac
Member
Thx! Sorry, I don't know which country the camo's from (I suspect DDR based upon the pattern) as this photo (best I've ever seen of the NDM-86, IMHO) is courtesy of Saleen who has more Drag stuff than I can ever hope to have.
HTH...
Tomac
HTH...
Tomac
wally
Member
The main reason 7.62x54R is cheaper to shoot is virtually all the surplus ammo is corrosive. Depending on how likely you are to be able to clean your rifle shortly after you shoot it, it may not be a bargin at all.
Interarms keeps showing ads for a .308 version of the Romak-3 but I've never seen one for sale.
--wally.
Interarms keeps showing ads for a .308 version of the Romak-3 but I've never seen one for sale.
--wally.
Kaylee
Member
Of the options listed, I'd grudgingly say the Romak. That said, I think jagdpanzer347 has the best advice, given what you say you're looking for and your budget.
Maybe add a FAL clone if you can find a decent one in that price range... I don't know FALs well enough to suggest one if so though.
Maybe add a FAL clone if you can find a decent one in that price range... I don't know FALs well enough to suggest one if so though.
DMK
Member
Of course, surplus 7.62x54 is corrosive. You need to wash the bore, gas system and wipe down the outside with soap and water every time you shoot it to dissolve and wipe away the primer salts.
The 7.62x51 surplus that the CETME shoots is not corrosive.
Still, I'd love a PSL myself.
MachIVshooter
Member
I have both a Century G3 and a Romak III. The Romak has the stock optic, the G3 is topped with a B-square mount and Simmons Aetec 4.5-14x. The G3 has proven much more accurate, producing consistent sub-MOA 100 yard benchrest groups with Federal American Eagle 150 grain ball, and groups between 1 and 2 MOA with most other ammunition. The PSL will run ~2.5 MOA with most surplus ammo, better with the match/sniper stuff (expensive and hard to find).
G3/Cetme 20 round magazines are dirt cheap and widely available, with 30 rounders turning up now and again. The PSL magazines are all 10 round and run about $35.
Ballistics of the two rounds are, of course, virtually identical. For the time being, 7.62x54Rmm is much cheaper, but this will eventually change when the supplies begin to dry up. The 7.64x54 is berdan primed, hence not reloadable. However, teh striations left on cases from the fluted chamber of the G3/Cetme renders brass useless in my experience.
The G-3 is heavier, but more compact. Interestingly, for all it's length, the stock on the PSL is far too short for comfort for the avarage American male. I am in the process of adding a Remington 870 recoil pad to the PSL stock to make it more comfortable. Actual felt recoil is less with the PSL, IMO.
In summary, the G3 is a better Battle rifle and, when equiped with a decent optic, a better DMR as well. But by all means, get the Romak III. For $600, a PSL is a steal (so lokng as the optic is included). I paid $720 for mine, and that was pretty good.
G3/Cetme 20 round magazines are dirt cheap and widely available, with 30 rounders turning up now and again. The PSL magazines are all 10 round and run about $35.
Ballistics of the two rounds are, of course, virtually identical. For the time being, 7.62x54Rmm is much cheaper, but this will eventually change when the supplies begin to dry up. The 7.64x54 is berdan primed, hence not reloadable. However, teh striations left on cases from the fluted chamber of the G3/Cetme renders brass useless in my experience.
The G-3 is heavier, but more compact. Interestingly, for all it's length, the stock on the PSL is far too short for comfort for the avarage American male. I am in the process of adding a Remington 870 recoil pad to the PSL stock to make it more comfortable. Actual felt recoil is less with the PSL, IMO.
In summary, the G3 is a better Battle rifle and, when equiped with a decent optic, a better DMR as well. But by all means, get the Romak III. For $600, a PSL is a steal (so lokng as the optic is included). I paid $720 for mine, and that was pretty good.
kennedy
Member
bipods are hard to come by and expensive, it took me 6 months to get one from Tantel for my russian tigr.
RockyMtnTactical
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Saiga
splattermark
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Yeah, you could always get a long-barreled Saiga-308 and turn it into a psuedo-SVD with the right furniture. You'd come out ahead in price and people are making 20-rounders somewhere. Plus they're probably more accurate, if the fact that my saiga-223 is almost as precise as my AR is any indication.
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