Help me decide M1A/M14 or AR

[Jmurman]

Hi guys. I am planning a purchase after the 1st of the year. I already have a M1 Garand and really love it. There is a range that is fairly near where I live and they do competitions that I'd like to try. I also want to have the rifles of the various wars, you know 1903 Springfield, AR15, M1 Carbine, etc.

I was thinking of a M1A/M14. I know I can get into the rifle I want for about 1500. I would then have to spend $ for accessories like mags etc.

I also know that the AR and variants do very well at these competitions, and I will own one someday any way...I just cannot make up my mind.

Any recommendations

 

[ACP230]

If you like the M1, the M1A/M14 will feel quite familiar.

I have both and shot each in NRA High Power Rifle competition for several years. I did better with the M1A because I had less trouble loading the magazines into the gun quickly than I did putting in the en-bloc Garand clips.

If you are going to start match shooting heavily, than the AR may be the best idea. If you are just going to try it casually, either your M1 or an M1A will work.

I've shot my AR clone in competition too, but didn't do as well with it as with the M1A.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

It has been my experience that the more you shoot, the better you do in competition. 5.56x45 ammo is much cheaper than 7.62x51 in most places.

 

[ScottsGT]

Since I got my M1 Garand, I never take out my M1A since they are so alike. I usually take the AR for something a little different.

 

[Jmurman]

Since I got my M1 Garand, I never take out my M1A since they are so alike. I usually take the AR for something a little different.

I'm thinking the same.

 

[Black Snowman]

I don't own any of the mentioned rifles but I have shot them all. If it were me, I'd get the AR 1st to ad some more variety to the collection and get the M1A later if I still fancied one. Pure opinion, not based on anything concrete

 

[Ed]

I own them both. If you are gonna seriously get into competing I'd go with the AR.

As for me. $1500 is a LOT of money for me to have to spend. It takes a long time for me to get it. So if I had it I would get the M1A. Stock AR's from Bushmaster, RRA etc can be had for lots less than that.

You'll probably get both someday anyway.

 

[dfaugh]

No contest-M1A

If someone GAVE me a $1500 AR I'd swap it for an M1A (Well, actually an AR-30 in .338 Lapua Mag, but that's not one of the choices )

Just say no to mouse guns

 

[bigjim]

Small forum world... Seen this before somewhere!

I vote for the M1A.

By all accounts the AR clones are wining matches, so if you are buying this rifle as a tool to win matches and you are that caliber of shooter then get the AR.

Having said that there are a bunch of other reasons to go with the M1A.

1. Historical Interest.
2. Heavy caliber useful for taking of game
3. Cheap (excellent) surplus ammo
4. WALNUT Stocks
5. Absolutely competitive and can win matches
6. Looks ( I know some guys like the way ARs look, hell some guys like rap music)
7. Easy and safer (as compared to 223) to load for.
8. People over 18 will still respect you
9. Preserves the chance of ever having a girl friend.
10. When you shoot steel at 300, 400, 500 yards it makes a nice WHOMP! sound as opposed to a sad little.......tink noise.

 

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Go for the AR15.

Like another member stated, it'll help round out your collection.

-Jim

 

[Matt-man]

What type of competition are you looking at? High-power, 3-gun, something else?

 

[ocabj]

If you want to get into Service Rifle highpower competition, then you have to go AR. ARs are simply less inexpensive and more accurate than the M14 variants. There are a few people that will argue you can get the M1A/M14 to sub MOA accuracy (and many will fly the BS flag). But in order to even do so, it will take a lot of work and money to accomplish sub MOA accuracy when the AR will usually do it out of the box or with little/inexpensive modifications.

You will want to get an upper receiver designed for service rifle matches and that will usually be a 20" barrel with a 1 in 8" twist. There are uppers more tailored for high power matches with tighter .223 chambers dubbed "National Match" or 'Wylde' chambers and have match style aperture sights.

If you decide to go M1A/M14, do it right. Go with Fulton Armory. Springfield Armory just doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[444]

I own all the rifles mentioned so far and if I was in your position, I would definitely buy the AR15.
I almost never shoot my M1A although I have nothing against it. For some reason I just don't. I probably shoot my M1 more than anything you mention, but it is a lot more work. Which brings me to this question:
"7. Easy and safer (as compared to 223) to load for."
You are going to have to explain that one.
You might want to read this article for some insight: http://www.zediker.com/downloads/m14.html

 

[bigjim]

444

Safer and easy .....

223 bullets and cases are small harder to work with.....

Total powder used is much less with 223. A charge error that will cause
the case to fail with 223 will not with 308. A 2 grain error with 223 is a 10 percent over charge. Same error is less than 5 % with 308. More margins for error is safer.

Not big differences and alone I would not let it make up my mind. However the stigma that goes with leprosy and 223 shooting should be considered before buying.

 

[Dienekes]

If I were X years younger with better eyesight and concerned about scoring well in highpower I think I would go the AR route. As it is I just like competing against myself and feel lucky that my optometrist went the extra mile to understand what it was I was trying to do and made it happen.

I have shot ARs off and on, starting in 1966 for Uncle up till 1993. I have a 'few' M1s, ranging from a match rifle to just off the Fedex truck, and like them all. I have shot the M14 and now own a match grade M1A.

The truth is that I like the M1 best. Part of it is the great heritage and part of it is the forged vs. cast feel. My M1A percolates fine and I have no "issues" with it, but I tend to grab the M1 when I go out to shoot .30 cal. All of them are .30-06. Conversions to 7.62 have an excellent reputation and I may just have to get one more M1 to see just how good they are.

From my standpoint the advantages of the M1A are in the adaptability to various optics if wanted and *perhaps* the 20 round box mag when the hordes come over the hill. Otherwise???

There was recently a thread over on CSP by an old time match rifle armorer comparing the potential of the M1 and the M14. His conclusion was that if todays barrels (specifically Kreiger) and steel bedding had been available when the M14 came online the M1 would outshoot the M14 then and now.

As someone mentioned, there is a heckuva difference between what a .30 cal bullet does out at 5-600 yards and what a 5.56 does.

Besides, the AR just doesn't have that PING!

 

[Steve Smith]

JMurman, what kind of competitions do you want to get into? (Haven't we already had a similar conversation about this?) If you really know what you want to do we can determine what to suggest to you.

If you are interested in shooting Highpower proper, then I would HIGHLY suggest you go to a match or three and shoot other people's guns (they will love to let you do that) and see which you prefer. FWIW, you will need more equipment than just a rifle, so my suggestion would be an AR for that.

 

[Jmurman]

JMurman, what kind of competitions do you want to get into? (Haven't we already had a similar conversation about this?) If you really know what you want to do we can determine what to suggest to you.

Thanks for your replies. I guess this falls under the catagory as .45 vs 9mm...

I haven't given the poodle shooters much thought til recently. I am comparing accuracy (out of the box), reliability, and available accessories/ammo etc.

My overall goal is to have at least 1 weapon from each of the wars. 1903 Springfield, M1 Garand, M14, AR15.

I LOVE shooting my M1, although it isnt as accurate as I'd like, but thats a different topic, and project.

What would you recommend....accurate and reliable...out of the box?

 

[Steve Smith]

Again I will ask if this is for Highpower. If you get hooked playing that game and you have a Garand you're just going to wind up buying another rifle eventually. If you have an M1A/M14 you will either pay more than $1500 or you will be crying when you have to take apart an almost new rifle and have it built right. If you buy an AR for HP you never have to change things.


Most CMP Garands will be reliable and if not they just require a little parts experimentation usually. Most M1As will be reliable, but SA has some issues. practically ANY AR that you get from a well known builder will be very reliable and if you get one that even has a few accuracy mods such as a float tube it will be more accurate than you can hold.

For the same consistent accuracy that you can get from a $900 AR, you will pay close to $2000 in a Garand or M14.

That said, I DO have a match grade M14 as well. I bought it because I wanted something with punch downrange. However, they just don't have the value anymore. My rifle was a custom built piece and cost close to $3000 when built, but I bought it with only 1K rounds through it for $1500. The former owner almost cried...but that's the going rate. Comp M14s just don't command the $$ like they did before the AR "Giant Killers" came out.

 

[kaferhaus]

unless you make a huge mistake

A charge error that will cause
the case to fail with 223 will not with 308. A 2 grain error with 223 is a 10 percent over charge. Same error is less than 5 % with 308. More margins for error is safer.

You'd have to make an enormous error in powder selection for this to occur.... most 223 loads are either compressed or nearly so...

I've never seen a 223 overloaded to destruction (case failure) with powders of the proper burning rate... I'm sure it musta happened somewhere, but I've never seen it or heard of it.

I have seen plenty of 308s blown to bits....

and a 2 grain error is huge.... the crappiest powder measure I've ever seen would throw charges within .5gr... most will throw within .2 and the benchrest models (harrels) will do .1 with ball poweders....


I would never make a decision on which rifle to buy for competition based upon how easy or not it may or may not be to reload.... I'm going for accuracy everytime.

 

[El Rojo]

I can't really tell you what to do, but I can share my experience.

First I bought an M1A. Why did I buy an M1A instead of an AR? I have no idea. I guess I just wanted an M1A and hadn't paid much attention to the AR. So I have an M1A and I shoot it fairly often and at NM highpower matches. That is the most fun you can have with your M1A in my opinion. Shooting iron sights at a target 600 yards away is a blast.

I eventually got a Garand too, because everyone should have a Garand. I find that anytime I want to have a "travel across the state" gun in the trunk, I grab the Garand. I guess it is just because the Garand is simpler and the ammo is easier to haul about. Maybe it is because the Garand is cheaper and I could always get another. Whatever reason, I have found that since I had my Garand, the M1A has sort of taken 2nd place.

Now I live in the the PRK, so I can't get a real AR, but I bought a FAB-10. Shooting the .223 vs. the .308 is way cheaper! Most of my .223 loads take half of the powder as my .308 loads and the bullets are cheaper as well.

First, if I were you, eventually buy both an AR and M1A. Why? Why not? Plus since I can't get a FAL, get one of those too as a way of honoring my struggle here in the PRK.

Since your budget is strapped, you have two options really.

1) Buy the M1A now because you deep down inside want it more. Also, I have the feeling if you buy the AR first, you might lose your desire for an M1A. Just realize the ammo is going to cost a little more. However, that depends on what kind of ammo you want to shoot. There is a lot of military surplus .308 on the market right now, but it is sometimes corrosive and always berdan primed so you won't be reloading it. If you want some match ammo, then by all means it will cost more. You also probably will have a harder time shooting in in national match highpower as well. However, if you are a reloader, most of your .308 components will match up with the .30-05 components. This is a plus.

2) Buy the AR-15 now. The ammo is cheaper all the way around, you can probably do better on the highpower circuit with a good AR. You already have a .308 caliber battle rifle in the Garand. Just be cautious that you might not see a need for the M1A later. That is why I think option 1 is best. Once you have an M1A, you probably won't want to get rid of it, but you might want to buy an AR-15 too just for the fun of it. Plus don't forget to get a good FAL because the DSA FALs look cool, the magazines are way cheap, and because I can't have one so you should.

Good luck!

 

[lycanthrope]

Using Varget you need to fill the case to the top, tamp it down with a dowel and then seat the bullet to even come close to overpressuring the .223.

The AR-15 owns service rifle these days. For $1000 you can put together a great rifle that can outshoot you.

Check out White Oak Precision, White Oak Armament and Compass Lake.

 

[Quintin Likely]

$1500 will buy you a service rifle AR that'll make the X-ring wish it wasn't so accurate if you can hold hard enough and still leave change for bullets and powder.

 

[MaceWindu]

Ain't into "squirt guns"

I need a BR with some NUTS:




I need a BR with some thump. Ain't never had any accuracy problems with this baby...this dawg will hunt

MaceWindu

 

[Duke of Lawnchair]

Ain't into "squirt guns"

Huh?

Did you get rid of your mini-14s?

 

[MaceWindu]

Just pullin some AR chains here


Nothing wrong with'm . Just an M1A man...AR in .308...interesting...

Wait until you see my Fulton Armory all USGI "Bush"...

MaceWindu