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Help me get set up for bullet casting
- Thread starter JimGnitecki
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JimGnitecki
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That's a good one: "sinkers" and "sand casting". Sand casting is how a lot of metal parts are made in foundries! One of my summer jobs before college was at a very old factory where sand casting was THE methodology. One of my tasks was to round up the emptied sand molds for re-preparation with fresh sand for the next round of casting.
Jim G
Yep, rumors and old wives' tales (and ignorance) die hard...
P Flados
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The number 5 refers to the number in the recycle symbol on the bottom of the container. The real thin stuff with the snap on lids work ok at first but tend to fail and make a big mess. Something a little thicker is recommended.
JimGnitecki
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Ok. I see the need for some structural strength, since we are agitating LEAD bullets. And I see the advantaghe of a screw-on lid versus a snap-on lid. But, what SIZE and SHAPE of container is best? For example, I would THINK that a round container might be better than a square one? And I would think that the size might be important: Too large and you need to use a huge amount of the paint powder each time to get good coverage on the bullets, and too little, not enough agitation to get good even coverage. I think I saw someone mentioned the "8 oz size of Cool Whip container". Is that the "official" ideal size? (
)Jim G
IWAC
Member
Safety first, last, and always! You tube has a video of a fellow casting in shorts, t shirt and athletic shoes! 
A tragedy waiting to happen! Long sleeves, no matter the temperature, and long pants... both cotton or wool, that won't melt and stick to your skin, compounding the injury. I suspect that is why a lot of casters do so in the Spring or Fall. Hat or cap, eye protection, with an old Denim jacket or better yet, a leather welder's apron and definitely gloves. Harbor freight sells some at fair prices. Some sort of protection for feet and ankles, too! You do NOT want to get molten lead or a hot bullet into your shoes/socks! Overkill? perhaps, but lead at 500 degrees + is not something to play around with. I had a potful of lead explode once, when my wife, carrying our baby daughter, who was only dressed in a diaper, came into the garage to see what I was doing! Fortunately, I was between them and the erupting pot, uninjured, but it scared me what could have happened to my ladies!
A tragedy waiting to happen! Long sleeves, no matter the temperature, and long pants... both cotton or wool, that won't melt and stick to your skin, compounding the injury. I suspect that is why a lot of casters do so in the Spring or Fall. Hat or cap, eye protection, with an old Denim jacket or better yet, a leather welder's apron and definitely gloves. Harbor freight sells some at fair prices. Some sort of protection for feet and ankles, too! You do NOT want to get molten lead or a hot bullet into your shoes/socks! Overkill? perhaps, but lead at 500 degrees + is not something to play around with. I had a potful of lead explode once, when my wife, carrying our baby daughter, who was only dressed in a diaper, came into the garage to see what I was doing! Fortunately, I was between them and the erupting pot, uninjured, but it scared me what could have happened to my ladies! JimGnitecki
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I have now read the 45 page thread on powder coating on the Cast Boolits forum, that began ion 2014 and had postings as recently as earlier this year, from beginning to end. Yes, it took a ridiculous amount of time, BUT I ma now well equipped with the informaiton needed to successfully powder coat cast bullets instead of lubing them.
What those initial mad experimenters learned and achieved on that thread is truly impressive. They found a way to do, and then optimize over time, powder coating of cast bullets before anyone else in North America apparently did. And they did it with a collection of things that exhibit "a lot of character", including:
- Powder paint from Harbour Freight - but ONLY the RED color (No other color works as well in getting complete coverage), or powder paint from WEastman (but there the BLACK works best), or powder paint from Smoke4320 because ALL his colors work
- Black Crossman 25 caliber Airsoft BBs - MUST be black, must be Crossman, must be 25 caliber, no substitutes (determined after exhaustive testing of lots of different BBs, including metal ones which don;t work nearly as well (Not enough static electricity generated)
- For agitation, No.5 Polypropylene plastic bowls as used for "Coolwhip" and other grocery products, or "Ziplock" bowls made of the same No. 5 material, but with thicker walls and screw-on versus snap-on lids (pretty important upgrade, since when a snap-on lids comes OFF during agitation, you get powder EVERYWHERE!)
- Either hemostats with ANGLED tips, or needle-nosed pliers or tweezers whose ends have been filed to points, and all such devices being pre-coated with powder before use
- No-stick tin foil or parchment paper found at your grocery store baking section
and it goes on and on. Incredible ingenuity.
Jim G
What those initial mad experimenters learned and achieved on that thread is truly impressive. They found a way to do, and then optimize over time, powder coating of cast bullets before anyone else in North America apparently did. And they did it with a collection of things that exhibit "a lot of character", including:
- Powder paint from Harbour Freight - but ONLY the RED color (No other color works as well in getting complete coverage), or powder paint from WEastman (but there the BLACK works best), or powder paint from Smoke4320 because ALL his colors work
- Black Crossman 25 caliber Airsoft BBs - MUST be black, must be Crossman, must be 25 caliber, no substitutes (determined after exhaustive testing of lots of different BBs, including metal ones which don;t work nearly as well (Not enough static electricity generated)
- For agitation, No.5 Polypropylene plastic bowls as used for "Coolwhip" and other grocery products, or "Ziplock" bowls made of the same No. 5 material, but with thicker walls and screw-on versus snap-on lids (pretty important upgrade, since when a snap-on lids comes OFF during agitation, you get powder EVERYWHERE!)
- Either hemostats with ANGLED tips, or needle-nosed pliers or tweezers whose ends have been filed to points, and all such devices being pre-coated with powder before use
- No-stick tin foil or parchment paper found at your grocery store baking section
and it goes on and on. Incredible ingenuity.
Jim G
BushMaster-15
member
Be sure to do it in a well ventilated area ,so You WON'T have to purchase an Iron Lung later in life
Ventilation is important a small fan behind you with an open air exit near by . One of MY closest friends now has COPD and he's Never smoked a day in his life ,so was it #48 years casting bullets ?. Don't know but MY way of thinking , a small draw or pusher fan with adequate ventilation is fairly cheap insurance in MY book .
Take it from someone who's worn a respirator for over #45 years ,due to the hazardous chemicals I've mixed in employment and MY own projects . Early on I had a malfunction in My PARE and suffered irreparable damage to MY left lung due to sulfuric acid inhalation .
I was unable to make the safe room in time . The company I was employed by immediately put emergency fresh air breathing apparatus near every mixing station. Undoubtedly saved countless lives by doing so .
Ventilation is important a small fan behind you with an open air exit near by . One of MY closest friends now has COPD and he's Never smoked a day in his life ,so was it #48 years casting bullets ?. Don't know but MY way of thinking , a small draw or pusher fan with adequate ventilation is fairly cheap insurance in MY book .
Take it from someone who's worn a respirator for over #45 years ,due to the hazardous chemicals I've mixed in employment and MY own projects . Early on I had a malfunction in My PARE and suffered irreparable damage to MY left lung due to sulfuric acid inhalation .
I was unable to make the safe room in time . The company I was employed by immediately put emergency fresh air breathing apparatus near every mixing station. Undoubtedly saved countless lives by doing so .
JimGnitecki
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Yes, I am paying attention to all the health cautions. Thanks for the alerts and reminders.
Jim G
Jim G
I see a bunch of overly complicated, tool intensive opinions and of course all the "lead poisoning/danger" posts. Many I disagree with. I have been casting boolits since the mid to late '80s and sinkers since my teens (early '60s).
Some would have you dress in a full Haz Mat suit, with welder's cap, leather apron, elbow length gauntlets, full face shield with respirator, pull on, mid calf length boots (no laces to trap lead spills or sprues) and all casting done in a negative pressure clean room. I started casting in about '87 and even with the crude equipment in the beginning, I only had minor burns from picking up a freshly cast bullet ("Oh look, a perfect bullet, ouch!") or touching a hot mold. I have been blessed with common sense and have had no major spills, no major burns, no Tinsel Fairy visits, no garage/shop fires and no lead poisoning or lung cancer (I don't chew on a boolit when casting and I don't do deep breathing exercises with my face over the pot). I have only started using jacketed bullets since I started heavy reloading for 32 ACP and 9mm, all the thousands of bullets cast and reloaded have been my cast. I have had a blood tests for heavy metals, annually before I retired and 3 since (12 years), all within normal range for Los Angeles resident. I use a small desk fan to blow the smoke away from my face.
I do not use a Lubersizer (I dip lube, pan lube, and "shake and bake" PCing, and size with Lee sizing dies), or an oven or water containers for tempering. My molds are 95% Lee, no need for $200.00+ molds, and I don't need hardwood "mold whackers", I have an old plastic mallet I bought around '70 for my Lee Loader. While I do use a Lee hardness tester, I very successfully cast for many years before I got one. I have a casting thermometer (also after years of successful casting) and no P.I.D. temp controller. I have purchased a lot of alloy from The Captain, a vendor/sponsor at Castboolits, good pricing. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?127-The-Captain.
All that to say; you don't need a lot of $$$$ tools and equipment to get started casting good shootable, accurate bullets. Your learning and experience will progress more quickly if you keep your equipment and methods simple.
Casting your own bullets is one of the most, if not the most satisfying fun and informative addition to our reloading shooting hobbies (you learn a lot about your firearms from making bullets for them). So K.I.S.S and enjoy the process...
Some would have you dress in a full Haz Mat suit, with welder's cap, leather apron, elbow length gauntlets, full face shield with respirator, pull on, mid calf length boots (no laces to trap lead spills or sprues) and all casting done in a negative pressure clean room. I started casting in about '87 and even with the crude equipment in the beginning, I only had minor burns from picking up a freshly cast bullet ("Oh look, a perfect bullet, ouch!") or touching a hot mold. I have been blessed with common sense and have had no major spills, no major burns, no Tinsel Fairy visits, no garage/shop fires and no lead poisoning or lung cancer (I don't chew on a boolit when casting and I don't do deep breathing exercises with my face over the pot). I have only started using jacketed bullets since I started heavy reloading for 32 ACP and 9mm, all the thousands of bullets cast and reloaded have been my cast. I have had a blood tests for heavy metals, annually before I retired and 3 since (12 years), all within normal range for Los Angeles resident. I use a small desk fan to blow the smoke away from my face.
I do not use a Lubersizer (I dip lube, pan lube, and "shake and bake" PCing, and size with Lee sizing dies), or an oven or water containers for tempering. My molds are 95% Lee, no need for $200.00+ molds, and I don't need hardwood "mold whackers", I have an old plastic mallet I bought around '70 for my Lee Loader. While I do use a Lee hardness tester, I very successfully cast for many years before I got one. I have a casting thermometer (also after years of successful casting) and no P.I.D. temp controller. I have purchased a lot of alloy from The Captain, a vendor/sponsor at Castboolits, good pricing. https://castboolits.gunloads.com/forumdisplay.php?127-The-Captain.
All that to say; you don't need a lot of $$$$ tools and equipment to get started casting good shootable, accurate bullets. Your learning and experience will progress more quickly if you keep your equipment and methods simple.
Casting your own bullets is one of the most, if not the most satisfying fun and informative addition to our reloading shooting hobbies (you learn a lot about your firearms from making bullets for them). So K.I.S.S and enjoy the process...
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AJC1
Member
I use a number one recycling number and found that Costco pralines, and the bulk m+m containers work wonderful no plastic beads or other accoutrements required. They hold enough at once to be plenty heavy, and the screw on lids have never failed... for scale those are 357
BushMaster-15
member
Not so ,simply keeping one's hands away from their eyes mouth nose and washing one's hands with adequate detergent ,along with fresh air circulation is reasonable precaution . The Human Body can ingest a great deal of deadly concoctions ,UNTIL it CAN'T or the Liver surrenders .
Sadly MANY of us learned too late in life ( Myself included ) . My generation said the Sun is GOOD for you ,well it is UNTIL it isn't .
Wonder how many back yard jury rig welders have been overexposed to RADIATION , from High Frequency Heliarc for an example .Children overexposed via sunburns are #20 times more likely to develop one form or another of CANCER , Factual and how many parents just blow it off as ,Ah so he or she is gonna feel a little pain for a few days . I simply try and SAVE people from experiencing the PAIN
AJC1
Member
My parents suffer terrible malenoma but a big hat and sunscreen was my answer to liquid nitrogen.... outside is the right answer for casting. A breeze or a fan....Not so ,simply keeping one's hands away from their eyes mouth nose and washing one's hands with adequate detergent ,along with fresh air circulation is reasonable precaution . The Human Body can ingest a great deal of deadly concoctions ,UNTIL it CAN'T or the Liver surrenders .
Sadly MANY of us learned too late in life ( Myself included ) . My generation said the Sun is GOOD for you ,well it is UNTIL it isn't .
Children overexposed via sunburns are #20 times more likely to develop one form or another of CANCER , Factual and how many parents just blow it off as ,Ah so he or she is gonna feel a little pain for a few days . I simply try and SAVE people from experiencing the PAIN
Also known as commo sense. Simple thought about what equipment and materials one is working with would stop 99% of the Tinsel Fairy visits, burns and future problems from lead exposure.
Watch casting forums for a while and you will see everything imaginable, from keeping children 50 yards away from your casting pot, to every leather product/PPE ever invented. The "Lead Poisoning Scare" has kept many people away from casting their own bullets. K.I.S.S. and Think!
BushMaster-15
member
I hear what you're saying the internet is abound with silly notions potions lotions and many millions with preconceived ideas of how the Universe evolved .
Having worked in the Chemical field as and R&D Chemist for over 30 years ,I pretty much know what can and can't kill you .
I had a colleague tell Me a sad tale over lunch one afternoon , when I was in Arnhem , Netherlands. Was working for Akzo Nobel batching Aerospace plural component urethane coatings . This fellow had a brother who sought his fortune in some South American Gold fields , unfortunately he succumbed to mercuric poisoning .
Somehow believed retorting mercury was safe provided he was outside .
Only needed to ask his brother ,who was a senior chemical division manager and find out it's NEVER safe , without proper equipment and Training or knowledge .
Essentially what one is doing is Smelting Lead ( granted on a small scale but Hazards are still present ) Higher risk of Kidney and Liver disease ( Not necessarily cancer either ) . I'm most concerned with bullet caster's breathing or inhalation of lead . Hell we all take risks handling bullets powder primers ,We're RELOADERS and as you stated common sense relating to washing hands and keeping them away for mouth face eyes ,are very Sound practices but Newbies the uneducated the unfamiliar don't always consider BREATHING precautions .
MY goal is ensuring you all stick around and drain your share of SS
Lead Smelting Safety
Lead smelting, which involves the heating of metallic components in a furnace, releases hazardous lead fume emissions into the surrounding environment, subjecting workers to lead exposure.
Smelting requires the use of a smelting furnace to generate sufficient quantities of heat. Blast furnaces used in secondary smelting plants (i.e., plants that produce alloys from refined metals, and which recover nonferrous metals from scrap) produce metals that include iron, lead, and copper.
JimGnitecki
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My wife, who is a retired healthworker, and has educated herself on way that people unknowingly harm themselves, says that the greatest danger to public health, which has already manifested BIGTIME in every developed nation including The U.S., Canada, and China, but NOT in Japan, is SUGAR.
A couple hundred years ago, Sugar was NOT a cheap commodity item, and was consumed only by the rich anywhere on Earth. But over time, it became less costly, was consumed by more and more people, and now, tragically, is added to almost every processed food product in every developed nation. It is even in places that you would not think it would be, including bread, ketchup, most salad dressings, most cereals, coffee creamers (BIG TIME), potato chips, soft drinks, and even in meat sausages. And there are several chemical varieities of sugar, The cheapest (therefore used the most in food production), is also by far the most dangerous. And food producers use it because its addictive allure to consumers is so intense that they buy way more of a product that has had sugar added.
Physicians view Sugar as dangerous, and extremely addictive because of the chemical effect it has on certain body processes. It causes a peson's blood sugar to rise very dramatically and creates the foundational basis for Diabetes. Diabetes is a massive public health epidemic in all the developed nations, including China, which now has a huge obesity problem rivaling The U.S. The treatment costs to our society are huge, and lives are being impacted as much as those of drug addicts.
In fact, if Sugar were viewed objectively, it would be a prohibited or at least highly regulated substance that could not legally be added to most foods. It is right now far more effective in sickening and killing people than cigarettes or alcohol or illegal drugs. There is a good argument for treating sugar like the harmful addictive drug that it actually is.
So, yes, there are harmful things we ingest that many or even most of us are unaware of. They WILL kill us despite our ignorance of them.
And by the way, the ancient Roman empire was a BIG user of lead for almost everything, inclduing eating and drinking vessels. Modern scientists and historical researchers agree now that it was a big contributor to the decline and fall of The Roman Empire. It killed silently and unknowingly.
Jim G
A couple hundred years ago, Sugar was NOT a cheap commodity item, and was consumed only by the rich anywhere on Earth. But over time, it became less costly, was consumed by more and more people, and now, tragically, is added to almost every processed food product in every developed nation. It is even in places that you would not think it would be, including bread, ketchup, most salad dressings, most cereals, coffee creamers (BIG TIME), potato chips, soft drinks, and even in meat sausages. And there are several chemical varieities of sugar, The cheapest (therefore used the most in food production), is also by far the most dangerous. And food producers use it because its addictive allure to consumers is so intense that they buy way more of a product that has had sugar added.
Physicians view Sugar as dangerous, and extremely addictive because of the chemical effect it has on certain body processes. It causes a peson's blood sugar to rise very dramatically and creates the foundational basis for Diabetes. Diabetes is a massive public health epidemic in all the developed nations, including China, which now has a huge obesity problem rivaling The U.S. The treatment costs to our society are huge, and lives are being impacted as much as those of drug addicts.
In fact, if Sugar were viewed objectively, it would be a prohibited or at least highly regulated substance that could not legally be added to most foods. It is right now far more effective in sickening and killing people than cigarettes or alcohol or illegal drugs. There is a good argument for treating sugar like the harmful addictive drug that it actually is.
So, yes, there are harmful things we ingest that many or even most of us are unaware of. They WILL kill us despite our ignorance of them.
And by the way, the ancient Roman empire was a BIG user of lead for almost everything, inclduing eating and drinking vessels. Modern scientists and historical researchers agree now that it was a big contributor to the decline and fall of The Roman Empire. It killed silently and unknowingly.
Jim G
CQB45ACP
Member
Ban it! Ban it now!
A popular anti sugar book in the early 70s was titled pure, white, and deadly. It was frightening really.
And I’ll betcha more sugar per capita is consumed today than back then and that’s the way it should be. It’s our own decision to make.
Over the past three years we learned how easily we can lose our personal choices (including health) and the draconian penalties dogooders will quickly levy on us. All society has to do is agree this or that is a public health emergency and, boom, marshal law!
Its amazing sugar and lead casting are still permitted.
My dad bought me a toy soldier lead casting set when I was a kid in the mid sixties. Happily I cast, melted, and recast those little guys in the indoor comfort of what is today my workshop/reloading room (bought house from parents in late 80s).
Wonder how much residual lead is here? I don’t cast bullets because I’m lazy and don’t think lead is easily available not because it’s potentially harmful.
Now sugar on the other hand, I don’t eat much except in processed foods I cannot avoid—that book, like The Jungle by Upton Sinclair—really did teach me something.
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BushMaster-15
member
The human body is a marvelous complexity of conversion . The body will break foods down into simple sugars ,one CAN'T live without glucose water or salt Protein and fat ; Those are the building blocks .
It has been estimated that even a unicellular organism may contain as many as 5000 different substances and the Human body over 5,000,000
The saddest thing IMO is the crap Dr.'s and Pharmaceutical houses pull on ,DIABETICS !. They MANUFACTURE DIABETICS ,by the 10's of K's yearly !.
WORST thing is prescribing insulin ( metformin ) for one ,in type 2 patients immediately . Another CRIME is allowing Company's to produce synthetic sugars
and artificial sweeteners or using corn syrup to sweeten soft drinks and such !.
FYI : There are Natural substances which are inexpensive ,that will lower blood sugar and utilize your pancreas ability to manufacture the body's insulin .
When one goes on prescription type 2 meds ,they interfere with the pancreas ,thus eventually eliminating it's primary function !.
It's ALWAYS ABOUT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s .
It has been estimated that even a unicellular organism may contain as many as 5000 different substances and the Human body over 5,000,000
The saddest thing IMO is the crap Dr.'s and Pharmaceutical houses pull on ,DIABETICS !. They MANUFACTURE DIABETICS ,by the 10's of K's yearly !.
WORST thing is prescribing insulin ( metformin ) for one ,in type 2 patients immediately . Another CRIME is allowing Company's to produce synthetic sugars
and artificial sweeteners or using corn syrup to sweeten soft drinks and such !.
FYI : There are Natural substances which are inexpensive ,that will lower blood sugar and utilize your pancreas ability to manufacture the body's insulin .
When one goes on prescription type 2 meds ,they interfere with the pancreas ,thus eventually eliminating it's primary function !.
It's ALWAYS ABOUT $$$$$$$$$$$$$$'s .
AJC1
Member
Well I do a lot of coating and do none of these. Eastwood Ford light blue is the powder.... BBs are not needed at all, the #1 recycling symbol generates all the static needed for proper coating, and I use gloves to handle bullets because needle nose or hemostats take 3x as long and is an exercise in driving you insane.
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