Help me with decapping 223 on Lee machines

[westernrover]

I've got some decapping to do. Should I use:

ABLP with case feeder (ie. Pro 4000)
or
Deluxe APP with decapping kit

Since I don't have a 223 shell plate for my ABLP with its case feeder, I setup my Deluxe APP for decapping. This press uses a different case feeder and I had to adjust it to the 223. That was not simple to get configured correctly, and after less than 1000 cases, I bent the decapping pin. I switched to my Lee Universal decapper and kept going, but it doesn't work too well since there is nothing to hold the cases down or eject the cases from the die. The deluxe model does not use the X shell holder like the regular APP. I quit after fiddling with a few hundred more.

I know from experience with other cartridges the ABLP case feeder can be made to work reasonably well. Occasionally, I'll have a case bounce and double feed. Occasionally, I get a case that fell in the collator upside down. Overall, it works fine. On the other hand, the red plastic ramp the case slide towards the shell holder on my ABLP is warped in a convex arc. Too often, the case rim collides with the shell plate and it tips over. If it doesn't do that, the case will frequently only go into the shellholder half or two-thirds of the way. Larger cases will self-center in the decapping die, but I'm concerned the 223 won't. Another method I use with previously decapped cases is to leave station 1 empty so as the shell plate rotates to station two, the case is pushed the rest of the way in. That makes the press useable but won't help with decapping which requires station 1. I could get the Lee "Heavy Duty Guided Decapper" which will either choke on cases not fully inserted into the shell plate, or it will pull the cases into the shell holder and positively self-center them -- I'm not sure which.

The Deluxe APP case feeder sucks for 223 because the tubes and feeder are hard to optimize for such a skinny case. The cases tilt and wiggle above the feeder because the tubes leave so much wiggle room. Yes, I'm using the small feed hole, not the large. Frequently, they fall into the feeder jaws tilted. Part of the problem is the feeder is too short. The feeder on my ABLP is taller and I added a height-extension to mine to raise it another 1/8". This tall pusher supports tall cases without letting the tip over. The Deluxe APP pusher is short and only pushes on the bottom half of the case. Many of the feed problems I see come from the case falling crooked into the jaws. I took some time to tune the jaw opening and try to position the tube drop to drop the cases straight into the jaws. You can see Johnny struggling to do the same thing from 31:52 to 38:50 in this video



I modified by feed tubes by reducing the ID somewhat to try to keep the cases straight. After I did that, I fed some cases, but like I said, not even 1000 before the decapping rod bent. Why did it bend? This is not even crimped primer brass. The case should not have been off-center because the guide fingers and ejector plastic should center the case for the pin. One of the issues I had with using the decapping kit was if the case mouth had a flat on one side it would stick on the decapping rod. It might not be a problem with larger case mouths, but the rod is almost a tight fit in the 22 necks when they're not bent. I wonder if I'm going to use this decapping kit on the Deluxe APP, how many replacement pins am I going to have to order to get through some brass?

I switched to my Lee Universal decapper. The problem with this is there is no X-press shellholder with the Deluxe APP. This press depends on the plastic guide fingers to center the case and it depends on the plastic ejector to push the case out of the die. I was able to do a few hundred cases, but too often a primer would stick on the end of the decapping pin, or a case would stick inside the decapping die, or a case wouldn't center over the primer ejection hole in the black plastic shell plate and I'd have to center it with my fingers.

I've got a few 5-gallon buckets of brass to decap and more coming. I need to be productive. Which of these Lee machines should I get parts for and try to make work?

 

[westernrover]

I think I determined that I need to get the X-Press shellholder #4 and replace the black plastic "deprime" shell plate with that. I'm hoping that will be enough to keep the cases aligned so the decapping pin will always hit the primer and it will have enough pull force to pull the case off the decapping rod even if the neck is a little dented. With the X-Press shellholder, I should be able to use either the APP depriming kit or the universal depriming die. I'll also get the heavy duty guided rod for the latter as I think that will be the best bet. As for the case feeder, it looks like I can get a 3D printed dropper that will cost me about $50.

 

[jmorris]

I used a collet die but removed the collet and installed a spacer instead, so it just decaps.

Auto Lee APP

The cylinder needs to be larger in diameter, that’s a 1” cylinder being fed 175psi and not crimped pockets. I’d rather have too much cylinder and regulate t...

www.youtube.com

Larger mandrel does the trick.

 

[westernrover]

I received the X-press shellholders and the guided decapping rods from Lee today. I also received the 3D printed case dropper. In addition to the case dropper, I bought the feed pawls and case deflector from the same vendor jasonjgazdik. I took the black plastic deprime insert out and put the X-Press shellholder #4 in the Deluxe APP. I installed the heavy-duty guided decapping rod in my Lee Universal decapping die (I bougt a second one so I could have a couple with caliber-specific rods without having to change them). Then I took off the Lee 4-tube case dropper and installed the 3D printed one. I took no more than about 20 seconds to adjust the height and line up the dropper with the jaws on the feeder. I loaded up the tubes with 223 brass and deprimed about 800.

These changes resulted in going from a 60% success rate in feeding to a 98% success rate. I haven't installed the new feed pawls yet because it's working well enough to use it now. Occasionally, I will have a case fall and land crooked on the jaws instead of falling into them. Sometimes, I will have the case feeder attempt to push a finished case out of the X-press shellholder and it will tip and jam. The former happens about twice as often as the latter. Still, in processing about 800 cases, I probably had either of these problems about 15 times. Both are easy to clear. A little finger pressure pushes the tipped case to drop into the jaws. For the cases jammed in the shellholder, I just back the pressure off by reversing the press handle slightly and pick the shell out. I can clear either without taking my hand off the press handle. Probably, the new feed pawls and case deflector that I got would prevent the cases from landing on the jaws and guide them to always drop into them. I'll see, but even if I had it working the way it is now, it's good enough to do the several thousands of cases I have ready to go.

The other cool thing about the 3D case feeder is changing to another cartridge case size is super easy with specific inserts for each - no adjustment necessary. I bought the feeder and 3 inserts for something like $55. There is a 6-tube feeder, improved tubes, and improved funnel/collator available also. I'm still using the Lee tubes and collator. They work ok for me, but after getting the feeder working so well, I can see how keeping the tubes filled becomes the bottleneck. If I were doing higher volume, all the available improvements would be well worth it. As it is, I'm doing some volume now but will probably do much less after this for the rest of the year.

Above is the 6-tube feeder. I got the 4-tube because it's more affordable and still suits my needs. Whichever suits you, I recommend these. With the right configuration, I can also recommend the Deluxe APP press. It's got typical Lee quirks and requires some fiddling, but not as much as their worse products. The thing that's great about it is what it does -- a autofed single-stage press that will decap or prime. I love a good case feeder, but a progressive press doesn't suit me because I'm going to take the cases off to clean the primer pockets and the lube off. I want to prime after I clean the cases, but then they need to come off the press again to be charged with powder. These Deluxe APP things are the right idea.

 

[savagelover]

To complicated for me,lol

 

[westernrover]

For me, loading can be incredibly complex. When I think about all the variables to the performance of an individual cartridge, it's mind-boggling. More complex still is that I must figure out what to measure and what I cannot expect to benefit from measuring because of the impracticality of measuring it or the improbability of improving from doing so. Where it gets too complex, is figuring out how be productive while chasing brass dropped on the floor, trying to prevent jammed cases in the feeder, or working out how to be productive when I have buckets of brass waiting to be decapped or primed and my process is entirely manual. A machine that performs a simple operation like decapping by simply repeatedly pulling a handle is not too complicated. This thread shows there are other people who find pulling a handle too complicated. They have the ability to simplify the operation down to simply turning it on with a switch or button. My operations aren't simplified to the George Jetson level, but I'm grateful they're not as complicated as figuring out how to accomplish my goals with a stick and mallet.

 

[AK Hunter]

I just use the cheap Lee Breech Lock press with a universal decapping die. I do it with dirty brass before cleaning so that dirty brass doesn't go through my full length sizing die.