Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by packetloss, Nov 22, 2020.
This is true.
My most accurate load in 9mm is also Power Pistol. The load is 5.6gr using the RMR 124gr FP MW bullet. This load results in around .65" grouping at 15yards, so it is accurate, but not very accurate.
What load/combination gives you less than 2" at 50 yards?
Good discussion, but all this leaves me concerned. After many years of reloading a number of calibers, including 38SPCL, 357 magnum,45ACP, 5.56, 308, and 458 SOCOM, I was out of commission for a while with health issues and have started up again leading off with 9mm. Frankly, I don't remember ever seeing such a wide variance in powders discussed for any caliber. Worse, here we are in another insane circus of shortages. I've been hoping to use something out of my powder supply, but I am conservative and want to start with published data. Most of the powders mention in this and other forum discussions are not published in any of the manuals (that I've found), and the ones that are, often contradict each other. Nuts! Thankfully I still have some Bullseye and Autocomp from my 45ACP loading. How about WST? I have an unopened pound of it.
Two things... the powder shortage has reloaders reaching for different powders, very often just what they have on hand... and making it work. The other would be the introduction of newer powders, almost everyone is kicking out new powders, most with supposed 'improvements' over the older powders. Data for it can be had from more recent data available online from the powder manufacturers/sellers, and often from the bullet manufacturers.
That can of WST will work swimmingly with the .45ACP...
I don't know if it is availability or novelty or powder characteristics, but I see more problems with the latest and greatest powders than I do with old tech.
Seems a lot like good fishing rods where a good one was very useful across a range of techniques and now there a one trick pony.
Power Pistol 124gr/147gr- big boom and flash loads
Blue Dot w/147s- max velocity
Longshot w/147s- max velocity
BE-86 w/ 147s- max velocity, low flash
All very clean, blue dot a little dirty.
I've tested a few of them... I'm not impressed. In fact, my last go'round with new pistol powders... I wound up just falling back on my old powders (Unique, and a new-found love for WST.) I did convert one to a permanent spot... W244, and that largely because it did well in 9mm and .45ACP, much better than BE-86 and SportPistol.
You will generally not find 9mm data with WST. There was a thread here at THR about that very thing, with loading data. I suspect there is a reason they pulled WST data for the 9mm from current data, so I don't go there... but it's an interesting thread.
As you pointed out, there are a lot of powders that work in 9mm, with published load data. I’m a big fan of WST and have loaded a lot in .38, .40 and .45 but when online data doesn’t show it for 9mm I start to wonder why. I followed the THR thread with WST and 9mm just because and wonder if it’s that Hodgdon just didn’t get around to it or they specifically have a reason for not using it, or there are just too many other obvious choices. They published data at one time, but not now. My thoughts are if I run out of other powders for 9mm, or just have a very long boring spell at the reloading bench, I may tug on the tigers tail.
Here you go. Enjoy.
WST (Winchester Super Target) PUBLISHED load data for 9mm - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/wst-winchester-super-target-published-load-data-for-9mm.870180/
I'm guessing it's because even at 4.0gr loads in 9mm you have to load to 1.135-1.15 to avoid a compressed charge. Probably not something they want to put out there for folks who don't know what they are dealing with.
Edited: Fixed the range (1.135 - 1.15)
You likely meant 1.135"?
For most powders in the Bullseye/Red Dot/Promo to W231/HP-38 burn rate range, 4.0 gr of powder charge with most 115/124 gr FMJ/RN bullets loaded to 1.130" won't result in compressed loads.
Many powders/bullets won't result in compressed load down to 1.120" and some powder/bullet won't result in compressed load down to 1.100" even with less dense powders.
More "fluffy" flake powders like Red Dot and Promo are less dense than ball powders like W231/HP-38 and with 115/124 gr FMJ/RN and 4.0 gr powder charge, will essentially produce 90% to 100% case fill loads depending on OAL used (And as member fxvr5 often reminds us, slightly compressed pistol loads may not be as bad as we all think).
For me, especially when using bullets with longer bullet base design like HP/FP, I will calculate/estimate bullet seating depth from published OAL using known bullet lengths and if working OAL (resulting bullet seating depth) is significantly shorter than published, I will reduce my start/max charges by .2-.3 gr.
Just curious, what are you using to meter your powder?
C-H 502 micrometer, Pro Auto Disk, Redding and Dillon powder measures but the smallest variance was obtained from PAD.
Here's 10 drop comparison I did with C-H/PAD/Reddng - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/powder-measures.873198/page-2#post-11603562
More 10 drop comparison with C-H - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/c-h-502-micrometer-powder-measure-10-drops.834894/
As a baseline I did some dry fire over a few days was was averaging around a 96 for standard open practice. Then I did some live fire testing with 4 powders (100 rounds of each) over 2 days (Bullseye, Win 231, True Blue and Clean Shot).
With Bullseye, Winchester 231 and True Blue I was scoring around a 91-92 over the course of each test for each of these powders (the only complaint the mantis had was too little trigger finger on some of the shots). I was consistent with my shooting, my accuracy was good and all 3 powders felt reasonably smooth. When I tested Clean Shot, my first 20 rounds were not as consistent but after that I tightened things up. According to the MantisX, I averaged 81 with Clean Shot, even after I got my groups reasonably accurate. It basically said I was pushing. I suspect this confirms what I was noticing about the punchiness of Clean Shot. While the recoil was extremely light, the rise was so sudden that unless I compensated by adjusting my grip it was affecting my accuracy.
Surprisingly, I didn't find Bullseye to feel punchy despite being a faster powder than even Clean Shot. I'm not going to hate on Clean Shot as it is really clean, meters really well and if it was the only powder I used it would be fine. Nevertheless I'm going to stick with True Blue and Winchester 231 and probably still try out WSF and Sport Pistol once I can find some.
Not at all what I expected. I really thought any of the fast powders would be similar in terms of recoil profile.
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