Help with rifle choice -I am poor

[rmkey]

I want to add a bp rifle. I really dont know witch. I have a hawken that is great- super accurate no complaint. I want to add a inline. I have a Kodiac mag CVA. I am working on developing it so I am not complaining about the Spanish made CVA. I am considering a Optima, Knight and TC. Which would you choose for accuracy and functionality. I like the looks of the Knight but I have heard problems with the plastic "primer carrier".
I would appreciate the imput of pros. Which would you choose?
50 Cal 1:28

 

[Starter52]

T/C is my choice.

You might want to shop the used gun rack. Black powder season is over and some folks will be selling their inline rifles to pay the heating bills.

 

[Wildfire]

Hey there;

Sorry to say it again , Guess I would save up or trade up till I ended up with the Encore. From your other post you say you want accuracy.
I am not sure any more how many BP guns I have had. Lost track. The "Whites" are by far the most accurate Muzzleloaders I have ever fire'd.
That was a good thing. If you can find the right mold and have the time and patience to find the right bullet design, These Whites can not be beat for accuracy. But I can tell you now you will spend a lot of money getting there.
The Encore is the second most accurate rifle I have ever owned. My other post described that to you.
Mine is the basic gun that I built on from there. But the accuracy remains the same. When I speak of accuracy I am not talking of hunting groups. Most hunters call groups out in inches and are fine with that. I am not.
I want one hole. We hunt Southern Michigan and have some heavy cover and fences that are property lines that are never to be crossed during the deer season. We need to DROP that deer right where it stands. If that means a head shot then thats what that means. With guns that produce 2" plus groups at 100 yards heads shots are risky. I am not a gambler.
All my shots touch holes at 100 meters . As long as accuracy is what you are after the Encore is a solid well built rifle and can be converted to all most anything you want. Even a handgun. Worth every penny. Most of the others shoot OK . But I found that they were just stepping stones. I no longer play that game. I would rather have one gun that shoots the ten that try to .

 

[Misfire99]

I think that you will eventually feel that you wasted your money. The reason the inlines were made was to give an advantage during black powder only hunts. This is gaming the system. And many states are taking steps to remedy this. If you plan to hunt with this gun I suspect that in a year or two you will be made to us it as a regular rifle. I personally don't see much difference between an inline and a single shot rifle. I know you can make an argument out of the slower velocity and closer range but that equates to a caliber issue. If you want an inline just because you want one I understand that. But if you plan to hunt with it I would take a long hard look at why you want to hunt with it and see it you will be able to in a few years. For a hunting rifle your money might be better spent on something else.

 

[alsaqr]

Buy a CVA Buckhorn rifle for about $100. This gun shoots as well as any muzzleloader out there. For about $200 you can get a TC Black Diamond.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

Missfire99, good morning
I agree with every word you just typed.
I do own a nice bolt action CVA inline chambered in .45 caliber and it has gotten my winter meat more than once and that's the truth, and I'm sure that if the Good Lord's willing and the creek don't rise it will do it again.
I like the .45 and the idea of being able to determine for myself exactly how much powder and what type goes behind it. I use this rifle as a tool to help feed myself and that's why I chose the inline. I use blackpowder exclusively year round, period.
But, like you, other than what I just stated, I can see no real difference between it and a single shot rifle, ie Ruger's Falling Block, etc. I don't ever remember shooting at an antelope or a buffalo with my CVA and having to sit there and smoke a cigarette and count the seconds while I waited on the bullet to get there.
I agree with you. If you know how to shoot then you know how to shoot, and if you don't know how then you don't know how...Okay...

If the ball is not hitting the target, then perhaps someone need's to check the shooter instead of the gun, hmmm?

 

[Wildfire]

Inlines.

Hey There;
While the debate on what type of rifle is or should be used for hunting any game goes on and will always be questioned by some. The fact remains, at least at this point in time. That in some states they are legal to use for hunting. And always leagal for target shooting. I agree very much so that some of the new inlines are in line with single shot rifles. They are extremely accurate. Target quality.
I ran into this years ago when I still hunted with a round ball gun. Always a debate on what was right wrong or otherwise. I finally decided (for myself)
That it was not up to the other guy what I hunted with. Some in other threads, else where. Use AR-15s in .223 to hunt deer with and get a lot of flack over it. If you are that good and can consistantly kill deer with that gun. Use it. And no one should give a Rats butt if you do. I personally see no practical use for a cap and ball revolver. BUT !!!! I will end up with one just because I want one and it would be fun to shoot. I have MANY fire arms and many have not been fired in years , Shame on me. I enjoy the BP muzzleloaders for the same reason that one of you mentioned. I get to decide how much powder and what bullet I want to shoot. I do understand that some people just can not afford an expensive gun. Maybe I have been blessed and can. Long ago I weeded out the cheap ones that really did not perform and moved up. Many of you have done this too. I do not wish to bash the guy that simply can not afford a better gun. But sometimes I do question statements like $100.00 gun shoots as good or better then $1000.00 gun. In some cases that could happen. But as a rule you get what you pay for. And as a rule you are purchasing quality. I have seen litterally hundreds of differnt loads, powders , bullets , and gun combinations on this forum. They must work or no one would keep using them. I have mine as I know you have yours. When some one ask for help here WE (the experianced) should do our best to try and give the best advice we can and not trail off on some wild argument as to what the other guy does. When you see some one give an answer that we all know is Bull we should jump in and correct it fast.
That is why we are here. And that is why the guy asked the question to start with. But the Traditionalist needs not worry about the inlines and the inlines need not worry about that traditionalist but learn from each other. That is how it should be. Happy shooting to all.

 

[jeep-2]

just re-read the ?

 

[Misfire99]

When some one ask for help here WE (the experianced) should do our best to try and give the best advice we can and not trail off on some wild argument as to what the other guy does.

Hi Wildfire I'm not sure if you are saying I "trail off on some wild argument" or not but what you say about helping the person is what I was trying to do. What I hoped would come across as my point was the hunting laws are changing. If an inline is bought thinking that it will be used during primitive hunts then he will be disappointed when the law changes and he can't use it then. At that point he would have been better served with a $100 deer stalker. I'm just saying he needs to look into the future to see if what he is paying his money for will do what he wants it to do five years from now.

As an aside, now that people have tried to game the system with inlines the new laws for primitive hunts are much stricter then they were before. This is not true across all states but it is true in many. There are now restrictions on the length of bullets to bore size. The elimination of sabots. The requirement that bullets only be lead without jacket. These are just a few but this wouldn't have happened if people didn't try to game the system. But with that said I know human beings are just that. There will always be some that look for an edge over what they see as the competition.

 

[Pancho]

It seems to me that with the condition of the herd in my state and the neighboring states that the problem is more of thinning the herd. Why states like Penn. would limit the ability to thin the herd by requiring stricter primitive regulations is beyond me. For every dead deer on the side of the road there is chance of a fatal accident and at the very least an insurance claim and all the B.S. of getting your vehicle fixed.

 

[mykeal]

The goal is not thinning the herd, except in certain special circumstances. The goal is overall game and habitat management. There are problems caused by overkilling the herd just as there are by underkilling. They're seeking a balance; the most common method of obtaining that balance is limiting the number of licenses, with adjusting the length of the season as the second choice. Fine tuning the weapons available is way down on the list of tools used by game management personnel.

 

[Pancho]

You got that right mykeal but as I understand it Penn. limits primitive weapon to flintlocks. My information comes from this forum so it is suspect.

 

[mykeal]

I believe your PA information is correct. The rules on muzzleloader design are determined by politics in almost every instance. No, I'm going to say every instance. It is a hotly debated topic as you have seen on this forum.

I personally believe the impact of these political decisions on game management is minor, if even measurable. There just aren't enough hunters using muzzleloaders to really have much of an impact; the goals of herd size are almost always met during the centerfire rifle/shotgun season, and if they aren't then the length of those seasons or the number of licenses sold are adjusted.

 

[Wildfire]

Opps.

Hey there:
No. I was not getting down on you. Sometimes I see guys pointing a newbe toward cheap ( Less Expensive) guns and it kind of creates a monster in me.
I do understand that some just can not afford high dollar guns. I live and hunt in Michigan. SW. We have a deer problem. Way too many. The DNR here
pushes for extra doe seasons and endless tags. 1 per day. Thats after 2 buck tags. So we are not in much danger of loosing on the gun restictions here. But I do know what you say is true in other states. I use my muzzleloader even when I could use other. This is all I hunt deer with. It is not a gaming thing with me. More an accuracy issue. I also will and do take other critters. Opening day of deer season I got a little bored (new spot) so I slapped a woodchuck with the Encore. Next day I shot a nice 9 point that I am having stuffed. The next day I shot a coyote. Got bored again.
So my point is I hunt what ever is legal ti shoot. I have killed so many deer in my life that it does not matter if I screw one up by shooting something else.
I do have a lot of respect for the guys that still use side locks or flinters and open sights. And even the guy that uses a cheap gun. By the time I put all the stuff on my Encore , scope , sling , bi-pod, pro hunter stock etc, I have around $1000.00 in to it. But I spent that much on my .22 rim fire. I know most can not or will not do that. But I do not golf.
Anyway , maybe that helps you see how I think. I am sorry if I led you to think that I was dissing you. That was not my intension. an other post kind of tripped me.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Enfield musketoon. Shoot a 535 grain minie ball. Knocks critters down with that heavy lead slug. Reach out to 350 yards easily.

 

[GENTLEMAN OF THE CHARCOAL]

I use blackpowder year round, exclusively. I am not trying to 'game the system'. I use Triple Seven 3fff. I trust it. It's a good friend. I like measuring my own load and picking out what projectile weight etc. that I will use. I don't own anything except blackpowder firearms. I had enough of 'hosing lead' in the military. I'm not a 'sportsman'. I don't stuff and mount animals, although if other people do, I give them that right. I take animals for food. If I don't need the food then I don't take them, I don't care if they're standing 10 feet in front of me, unless they threaten me and then I'll shoot the hell out of them.
Missed a deer one time with my Walker. Shot over it a few inches. Stayed awake tossing and turning all night worrying about how come I missed.
I read your post. You already own 2 of the finest rifles they make. If you'll learn how to shoot them and keep them clean they'll do you for a lifetime. Probably your son for his lifetime to, if you have a son. Don't mean to sound hateful. Don't mean it that way, but I don't really think you need any help in just adding another rifle to your collection...Okay...