Here ,Kitty ,Kitty !!

[beards]

As to the cat in the porch pictures, there's something wrong with that cat(rabies?). That kind of behavior ain't natural.

Not really. Here in CA they cats prowl the neighborhoods for easy pickens of dogs and cats. We have one up the block that fell through a bedroom window off a fence. He was laying on the fence watching a kid in the bedroom when the fence gave way. The kid luckily had just gone into his mom's room when the cat dropped in. His mom and him stayed there and called the cops. Kitty finally got out of the house and ran down the sidewalk back into the foothills.

DFG here aired a IR video of two cougars hunting like raptors in the Sierra Madre area a few years back. No BS, one cat would walk out front to lure a backyard dog out and the 2nd cat would pounch from behind. And we're talking 100 lb. golden retrievers and other large dogs. The big cat then jumped over the fence with the dog in it's mouth. Awesome display of power in those legs.

DFG did a radio collar study here a few years back and one of the startling things they found out was not that the cats wondered 150 miles out, they found the male territories overlapped considerably. Previously they had thought the cats were very territorial like coyotes but that does not appear to be the case. The other huge suprise was how well the big cats had adapted to urban life and how they lived so close to homes so well. One buddy I know who does depradation for the county here chases cats right among homes, one cat lived in a 100 yard long ditch and was a mile or two from the woods or heavy cover. He get' s many calls of a big cat in someone's back yard sleeping in a tree.

As a good example, recently at a Los Angels Co, fire station I looked down to see a nice cougar print in the concrete. When I asked the firemen if they knew what is was they all thought it was a dog print. This cat had walked right by their firehouse after they had poured the concrete. Kind of puckers you up if you live there and had never seen the cat. I'll see if I can get a pic of the print, my camera had dead batteries that day.

 

[countertop]

As a good example, recently at a Los Angels Co, fire station I looked down to see a nice cougar print in the concrete. When I asked the firemen if they knew what is was they all thought it was a dog print. This cat had walked right by their firehouse after they had poured the concrete. Kind of puckers you up if you live there and had never seen the cat. I'll see if I can get a pic of the print, my camera had dead batteries that day.

Would love to see that pic, maybe you can take it with the firehouse visible too.
Seems like that should be the start of a major PR campaign in California to get EVERYONE CARRYING and EVERYONE shooting the devil cats.

 

[Art Eatman]

It's not uncommon here in Terlingua to have a wake after the death of "one of us". One such wake, with campfire, guitar-picking and a lot of beer, lasted until about 3AM.

One of the attendees drove home, a mere few hundred yards away. The next day, he saw lion prints in his tire tracks--about a hundred yards from the scene of the wake. About two weeks ago, this same guy's favorite pet house cat became a late-night snack for the lion I call "Cigar Mountain Mama"...He and his wife are not pleased.

Back when I lived down on the flatland by Terlingua Creek, my garbage burn-pit was maybe 20 yards behind the house. I regularly saw lion prints by it.

MsTracy's cafe, up at GhostTown, has a water pan out back for the benefit of the local cats and dogs. Seems to be a popular spot for Ms. CMM, as well.

Some years back, during a cold spell, one of our locals set up a run-wire from inside a utility room out to a post in the yard. His dog could be inside at night, but could get outside during the day. The guy goes up to Alpine overnight, and comes home to find an empty collar and a bunch of blood--inside the utility room. And lion prints...

High school kids walking to school in Fort Davis were startled to see a lion in a tree, about a block from the courthouse. One of the Local Law took care of the "problem". Comments from all around town: "Y'know, I've been wondering what happened to my cat (or dog)."

Wealthy oil-man Clinton Manges decided that his very large south Texas ranch needed some elk. A 90-pound female lion killed a 500-pound cow elk and dragged it over 100 yards to a good hiding spot...

Art

"Hey, I got news for ya: Bambi was not a documentary."

 

[countertop]

Time had a very interesting article on eastern cougars last week

May. 2, 2005
North America's biggest cat is making a comeback and seems to be heading east in the process. After retreating to the western half of the country for more than a century, scores of cougars--a.k.a. mountain lions--have been spotted in the Midwest in recent years, thanks to the species-protection programs enacted by most Western states in the 1960s. And though the number of tawny carnivores in places like Illinois, Iowa and Missouri is still small--since 2003, only two dozen sightings have been confirmed in the Midwest--Clay Nielsen, a wildlife ecologist at Southern Illinois University and head researcher at the nonprofit Cougar Network, is gearing up for the possibility that more are on the way. With a grant from his university, Nielsen is starting the first large-scale research into the likely patterns of the cougar's Midwestern migration. "No one has tried to figure out where they might go," he says.

But even with few cougars in the region, widespread paranoia has settled in. Iowa has recorded hundreds of false sightings (five confirmed ones) over the past two years. "Almost every case is a mistaken identity," says Ron Andrews of Iowa's department of natural resources. "They're probably just seeing the neighbor's dog." --By Wendy Cole

There are a couple of neat web pages too.
http://www.easterncougarnet.org/index.html
http://www.easterncougar.org/

 

[Ironworker]

So, here's a stupid question, asked in all innosence, by someone who hasn't had to deal with anything much more intrusive than very nervous foxes going after catfood left outside at night--don't flame me too badly.


Given that:
1) These critters are dangerous to life, limb, and property
2) Officially, they CANNOT be where they are (for whatever reason)
3) In fact, the (not so little) bastards are hunting your family (pets and otherwise) on your front/back porch


Why would it be illegal to shoot one/them (purely technical details aside--important item in line of fire, no shot, etc.)? So what if it's endangered: if it cannot be there, you couldn't have shot it in your back yard. If it could be there, then the official is deliberatly and recklessly endangering your life, and their agency needs to be taken to task by an entheusiastic lawyer. If it was kept as a pet, it was done so illegally or with reckless disregard for others, sort of like those persons who like keeping overly large agressive dogs in San Francisco apartments.

 

[Art Eatman]

Ironworker, built into your question is the entire justification of the saying, "Shoot, shovel and shut up." If one's life is what's in jeopardy from some critter, another saying--which originated with the police, by the way--is, "It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six."

But never forget that in his own mind, no bureaucrat was ever wrong.

, Art

 

[ezypikns]

I may be wrong.....

but I don't think lions are protected here in Texas, By the way, we had (I think) a confirmed sighting of a lion in Flower Mound, Texas last fall. Flower Mound is just north of DFW airport between Dallas and Fort Worth. Where there are deer, and they are beginning to show up in some areas very close to Dallas-Fort Worth, you will have predators (lions).

 

[Selfdfenz]

I could believe all kinds of preditory critters live in and around our crazy growing NT. If we have coyotes and bob cats in Dallas and Carrollton, and we do for a fact, why not big cats.

These animals have lost any fear of humans they may have had and there is an unlimited supply of not-so-fast-food cats and dogs raised on IMAS and SCIENCE DIET. Said pets must be much more tasty than free range rabbit and lots less work!

The coy dogs out in the TX country-side often look skinny and have shabby coats. The ones near 190 look like wolves.

S-

 

[JohnKSa]

From the Texas Parks and Wildlife Outdoor Annual (2004-2005) page 69.

Mountain lions are listed in a table of "nongame species" and the following bullet explains what that means:

"These animals may be hunted at any time by any lawful means or methods on private property. Public hunting grounds may have restrictions. A hunting license is required."

From page 70.

"Mountain lions are not protected and can be harvested at any time. Please report...mountain lion sightings or mortalities to (412) 912-7011."

 

[jobu07]

Heh, well. Here's somethign else to ponder over. ANother thought to be extinct speciese has been proven to be living in New York, however, they thought it was escaped from captivity. But who knows, maybe it was just eatting well?

http://www.ask4direct.com/news/wckr

TESTS CONFIRM DEAD CANINE TO BE A WOLF - Click here to print this information

The 99-pound canine shot by an upstate man last month has been identified as a wolf, but a pathologist says it probably was once in captivity. John Yuhas awoke April 12th to find the wolf attacking and killing his dog outside in the town of Sterling, about 32 miles northwest of Syracuse. Wolves are believed to have been exterminated from the wilds of New York state a century ago. After examining the carcass, state wildlife pathologist Ward Stone tells the Post-Standard said it was a wolf, though DNA samples will be tested to confirm that. It also had heartworms and was a little chubby. Says Stone "It appears to have had recent experience with captivity."

That link will only be good until 5 am tomorrow, though.

 

[Selfdfenz]

Not sure if the comments about being overweight and heartworm + made them think it had been a captive or if there was another reason but neither indicate captivity to me 100%.

This item made me wonder if coyotes get heartworms? None of my dogs ever had the problem but an infected canine wild or otherwise must be able to cope with the infection for some period of time before it pulls them down.

To keep the thread drift to a mimimum.....I wonder if cougars and bobcats can bet feline leuk? If so you would think the cougars living near areas populated with many infected feral cats would be a conduit for the disease to those stationed in more remote areas. I wonder if any of the cougars involved in human attacks that were eventually hunted down were tested for feline leuk?

S-

 

[Art Eatman]

Selfdfenz, that's a good question.

However, it gives me the shudders: A fish&game agency would get involved in such testing. The money would have to be authorized by a legislature. No person's freedom or property is safe when a legislature is in session--particularly when an emotional issue is raised.

Oh. Saw tracks of a young lion yesterday afternoon, down in my west pasture. He'd traveled through sometime Saturday night after the rain shower had stopped...

Art

 

[Selfdfenz]

Art

When you put it that way we may certainly be better off not knowing.

There are several people that post here and from their posts it's pretty clear they have a book or two in'em. Have you ever considered writting a book about that place and the people?


I buy it.

S-

 

[svtruth]

States' Denials

Can someone throw some light on why states would deny the existence of mountain lions? It must be related to money, but I don't see how.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Can someone throw some light on why states would deny the existence of mountain lions? It must be related to money, but I don't see how.

It skews the wildlife census. If you say you have mountain lions, the next question is, "How many?" Followed by "You don't KNOW?!?! What are you doing to find out?"

And that's followed by demands to close public hunting lands to "protect" the locally-endangered species.

And that's a heck of a nut-roll to go through for an animal that might not exist.

And if you think I'm exaggerating, I'm from Arkansas, where we just re-discovered the supposedly extinct Ivory Billed Woodpecker!

 

[Dave R]

But never forget that in his own mind, no bureaucrat was ever wrong.

Lemme give you a cougar-related example of that. I once lived in Lake Forest, CA. (Used to be called El Toro). Back in '96 or so, the housing development stopped up against the foothills east of the valley. Residents up there were always losing dogs & cats. We blamed it on the Coyotes.

I took a group of church kids to a nice park up in the foothills, where the park service gave guided tours/hikes that told about the flora and fauna of the area. The uniformed ranger who guided our group talked a lot about the species threatened by housing development, and loss of habitat. Cougars got mentioned a lot. He said they needed "hundreds of square miles" of habitat per Cougar to survive. Bear in mind, this park was maybe 10 square miles in size.

Later, the uniformed park ranger described how Fish & Game put radio collars on most of the cougars in our area, to track them. He was really excited when he said that one night, there TWELVE collared Cougars in our park.

I thought about it for a minute, then set a bad example for the kids. I questioned him on it. I said "How can there be 12 Cougars in this park if they need hundreds of square miles of habitat? What are they eating, poodles?"

I have never seen such sputtering.

 

[jobu07]

Can someone throw some light on why states would deny the existence of mountain lions? It must be related to money, but I don't see how.

Think about what is happening in Arkansas right now with that Ivory Billed skeet target, er, woodpecker. Anyway, when a once extinct or endangered species not thought to be there shows up, the local economy will be tremendously impacted by it. Mountain Lions are confirmed in the area, so no logging can take place, lumber mills must pay a lot more to import their materials elsewhere, scientists quarentine of forests that can no longer be used, private land my be eminent domained for fear of private citizens hunting off the endangered cougars, ATV sales would subsequently taper off when the land to use them on disappears. THings like that. Use your imagination, tons of things would be effected by it. Them gubmit types are sneaky.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I thought about it for a minute, then set a bad example for the kids. I questioned him on it. I said "How can there be 12 Cougars in this park if they need hundreds of square miles of habitat? What are they eating, poodles?"

I have never seen such sputtering.

I think you taught the kids a good lesson -- 90% of what the government tries to feed you is pure BS. Question them at every turn.