Mike Irwin
Member
Just curious...
Hey Dave, what do you think about S&W 3000s?
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Preacherman
Member
I used one on LFI-3 last year, and put something over a hundred rounds through it in self-defence training scenarios. I liked it - handled and felt very like an 870 (on which it's based, of course). I've never seen one in sporting configuration, only SD/LEO/HD setup.
Mike Irwin
Member
Darn, Dave hasen't checked in yet...
We went shooting at Bull Run this evening.
I've got a 3000 police model.
I decided to shoot two rounds of wobble trap with it this evening...
Cylinder bore, 18" barrel.
Hit 44 out of 50 targets thrown.
Dave will tell you why I'm asking him about the 3000.
We went shooting at Bull Run this evening.
I've got a 3000 police model.
I decided to shoot two rounds of wobble trap with it this evening...
Cylinder bore, 18" barrel.
Hit 44 out of 50 targets thrown.
Dave will tell you why I'm asking him about the 3000.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
For those coming in late....
Back in the 80s, Md DOC bought some 3000s to be a cost cutting alternative to the 870. The 3000 was made in Japan, came as a near clone to the 870, and was widely touted by S&W as the next big thing in police style shotguns.
In a Correctional setting, the 3000 came up short. Under the usual conditions of under maintaining, neglect, abuse and bad weather tower guns work in, the 3000s went belly up, were surplussed quietly, and new 870s popped up like mushrooms after a good rain. On a wider scale, the 3000 was discontinued, the 870 was so good its grip on the market was nigh a monopoly. The 3000 did get Remington off their collective rumps, the 3000 functioned if a shell was not pushed past the latches far enough. Remington responded with the Flextab, found on all newer 870s.
I recall using up most of a can of 3 in 1 oil to free up the slide on one. The things did well when clean and new, but grunge and corrosion did horrible things to them. The fact that most Correctional Officers are sheer idiots with firearms didn't help either. A rawhide mallet was also involved in disassembly.
Back to the present.....
Last night I drove through BAD traffic to meet Mike Irwin and another THR member, MtnBkr, for the first time. The excuse we used was to shoot some wobble trap, a different game with some nice variants. Wobble is a fairly close range game, with lots of report pairs, odd angles, and flight paths ranging from daisy cutters to clays heading for the stratosphere. It's as much fun as I can have fully dressed and I plan on doing more soon.
I used Frankenstein and a skeet choke with a spreader variant of my 7/8 oz target cruncher. Mike used, you guessed it, a S&W 3000. He has oft taken polite umbrage at my "Dissing" of the 3000, though I've made it clear that my objections were to it as an agency weapon, not a personal or sporting arm.
But he had his vengeance last evening. To put it bluntly, he trounced me. Thus his posting this, to gloat(G)....
He hit 44/50. I hit 30/50. New game and all that. And maybe a Skeet choke and spreaders was a little too much of a good thing patternwise. At least, that's my excuse....
Thanks for the invite, Mike, had a great time. And this crow doesn't taste all THAT bad....
Back in the 80s, Md DOC bought some 3000s to be a cost cutting alternative to the 870. The 3000 was made in Japan, came as a near clone to the 870, and was widely touted by S&W as the next big thing in police style shotguns.
In a Correctional setting, the 3000 came up short. Under the usual conditions of under maintaining, neglect, abuse and bad weather tower guns work in, the 3000s went belly up, were surplussed quietly, and new 870s popped up like mushrooms after a good rain. On a wider scale, the 3000 was discontinued, the 870 was so good its grip on the market was nigh a monopoly. The 3000 did get Remington off their collective rumps, the 3000 functioned if a shell was not pushed past the latches far enough. Remington responded with the Flextab, found on all newer 870s.
I recall using up most of a can of 3 in 1 oil to free up the slide on one. The things did well when clean and new, but grunge and corrosion did horrible things to them. The fact that most Correctional Officers are sheer idiots with firearms didn't help either. A rawhide mallet was also involved in disassembly.
Back to the present.....
Last night I drove through BAD traffic to meet Mike Irwin and another THR member, MtnBkr, for the first time. The excuse we used was to shoot some wobble trap, a different game with some nice variants. Wobble is a fairly close range game, with lots of report pairs, odd angles, and flight paths ranging from daisy cutters to clays heading for the stratosphere. It's as much fun as I can have fully dressed and I plan on doing more soon.
I used Frankenstein and a skeet choke with a spreader variant of my 7/8 oz target cruncher. Mike used, you guessed it, a S&W 3000. He has oft taken polite umbrage at my "Dissing" of the 3000, though I've made it clear that my objections were to it as an agency weapon, not a personal or sporting arm.
But he had his vengeance last evening. To put it bluntly, he trounced me. Thus his posting this, to gloat(G)....
He hit 44/50. I hit 30/50. New game and all that. And maybe a Skeet choke and spreaders was a little too much of a good thing patternwise. At least, that's my excuse....
Thanks for the invite, Mike, had a great time. And this crow doesn't taste all THAT bad....
Mike Irwin
Member
No crow involved, Dave...
I went home last night, put the gun case on the floor, and when I walked into the kitchen I heard this loud BANG!
When I ran back into the hall, all that was left of the 3000 was a smoking crater in the floor.
I guess it saved up all of that malfunction energy and simply super nova'ed...
I went home last night, put the gun case on the floor, and when I walked into the kitchen I heard this loud BANG!
When I ran back into the hall, all that was left of the 3000 was a smoking crater in the floor.
I guess it saved up all of that malfunction energy and simply super nova'ed...
El Tejon
Member
I purchased several SW3000s in 96 from a PD in Ol' Kentuck and had excellent results with them. One was beat to heck, but all functioned and patterned well. Even took two of them to skul. No issues that I observed.
After my armoury's reorganization, they now reside in the trunks of the Battle Ground (Indiana) Police Department. Keeping residents safe from rampaging chipmunks or crows. Allegedly, purportedly, perhaps they have been used to shoot rats by the river bank by the rail freight depot but then later decided .22CBs were the better (quieter) option.
Was not aware SW3000 had questionable rep.
Not to worry, 870s now.
After my armoury's reorganization, they now reside in the trunks of the Battle Ground (Indiana) Police Department. Keeping residents safe from rampaging chipmunks or crows. Allegedly, purportedly, perhaps they have been used to shoot rats by the river bank by the rail freight depot but then later decided .22CBs were the better (quieter) option.
Was not aware SW3000 had questionable rep.
Not to worry, 870s now.dfariswheel
Member
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After the disastrous 916 episode, S&W imported the Howa-made 3000.
At the time, S&W OWNED the police pistol market, was making moves on the holster market, and thought the 3000 would put them on top of the law enforcement shotgun market.
This would have made S&W the top dog in police supplies.
They went head-to-head against the Remington 870........ and Remington handed them their heads.
S&W shortly slunk away, and the 3000 was passed to Mossberg and oblivion.
Shortly after that, holster makers like Bianchi kicked S&W butt in the holster market, and S&W announced the disposal of most of the non-pistol lines so they could "get back to our core market of pistol making".
Strangely, the 3000 briefly had a cult following among some police officers, being somewhat of a status symbol.
Since Winchester discontinued the Model 12, Remington has the law enforcement shotgun market absolutely sewed up.
Mossberg sells a few, Ithaca sells a few, Winchester sells about none, the foreign makers sell a few, and Remington skips laughing to the bank.
We get a lot of questions on the gun forums about Remington vs. Mossberg vs. Winchester HD guns.
It's kind of tough to argue with somebody who so totally dominates the field, and the S&W 3000 found it out the hard way.
At the time, S&W OWNED the police pistol market, was making moves on the holster market, and thought the 3000 would put them on top of the law enforcement shotgun market.
This would have made S&W the top dog in police supplies.
They went head-to-head against the Remington 870........ and Remington handed them their heads.
S&W shortly slunk away, and the 3000 was passed to Mossberg and oblivion.
Shortly after that, holster makers like Bianchi kicked S&W butt in the holster market, and S&W announced the disposal of most of the non-pistol lines so they could "get back to our core market of pistol making".
Strangely, the 3000 briefly had a cult following among some police officers, being somewhat of a status symbol.
Since Winchester discontinued the Model 12, Remington has the law enforcement shotgun market absolutely sewed up.
Mossberg sells a few, Ithaca sells a few, Winchester sells about none, the foreign makers sell a few, and Remington skips laughing to the bank.
We get a lot of questions on the gun forums about Remington vs. Mossberg vs. Winchester HD guns.
It's kind of tough to argue with somebody who so totally dominates the field, and the S&W 3000 found it out the hard way.
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