Well, as a second rifle (Nagant first!) I was thinking of a cheap 9mm carbine plinker. I have narrowed the search down to a Hi-Point Carbine and a Kel Tech SUB 2000. What are your opinions on both of these, and which do you like better? What are the advantages and disadvantages of both?
Hi-point or SUB?
- Thread starter N3rday
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I totally forgot to ask...is the Sub2000 +p and +p+ rated? I know the hi-point is.
Also, how hard is it to mount optics on a SUB?
edited to add: How long after the ban will it take Hi Point to come up with some good hi-caps and get them circulating?
Also, how hard is it to mount optics on a SUB?
edited to add: How long after the ban will it take Hi Point to come up with some good hi-caps and get them circulating?
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Ive torn a friends Hi-Point down with no problems...it actually comes from the factory disassembled.
Hi-point is the choice for me, as soon as I can find some way to get some Hi-caps. Looking at Sten and Uzi mags right now...maybe I can make one work.
Hi-point is the choice for me, as soon as I can find some way to get some Hi-caps. Looking at Sten and Uzi mags right now...maybe I can make one work.
I would go for the High-Point. The ergonomics are much better than the Kel-Tec in every respect. It feels much sturdier and costs much less. However, it lacks "high capacity" magazines (until September, in my opinion) and it doesn't fold in half, so the Kel-Tec beats it in those respects.
varoadking
Member
SUB 2000.
Mine's pretty darn accurate and I like the ergos better than even the Beretta Storm. Handy that it folds. Hard to beat it for $249.00...
Mine's pretty darn accurate and I like the ergos better than even the Beretta Storm. Handy that it folds. Hard to beat it for $249.00...
Pepe Domingo
Member
Kel-Tec all the way.
I have owned both. I sold off the Hi-Point long ago. Don't get me wrong, the Hi-Point was a heck of a shooter for what I paid ($120 I think). However, double your money and I believe you get a rifle more than twice as versatile.
IIRC, the Hi-Point uses a single stack magazine. If and when a hi-cap is available, I think it would be mighty long. Also, I believe overly long single stack mags do not have a reputation for reliable feeding.
My SUB is set up for S&W mags. I have a bunch of cheap 30 rd. ($15) mags that feed fine.
Both were about the same accuracy wise (ragged hole out to 25 yd. and consistent hits out to 100 yd.).
The Hi-Point, while not impossible to strip, can be confusing and hard to get the hang of. The SUB is simpler.
I have a custom case (WRB) for my SUB that holds it and four mags. The whole package tucks neatly under the truck seat. I think that is a MAJOR benefit.
Pepe Out
I have owned both. I sold off the Hi-Point long ago. Don't get me wrong, the Hi-Point was a heck of a shooter for what I paid ($120 I think). However, double your money and I believe you get a rifle more than twice as versatile.
IIRC, the Hi-Point uses a single stack magazine. If and when a hi-cap is available, I think it would be mighty long. Also, I believe overly long single stack mags do not have a reputation for reliable feeding.
My SUB is set up for S&W mags. I have a bunch of cheap 30 rd. ($15) mags that feed fine.
Both were about the same accuracy wise (ragged hole out to 25 yd. and consistent hits out to 100 yd.).
The Hi-Point, while not impossible to strip, can be confusing and hard to get the hang of. The SUB is simpler.
I have a custom case (WRB) for my SUB that holds it and four mags. The whole package tucks neatly under the truck seat. I think that is a MAJOR benefit.
Pepe Out
cidirkona
Member
Anyone happen to know if a sub2000's gripframe (in .40s&w in glock magazines) could be cut down to take g27/33 magazines?
Has anyone tried taking a 9mm barrel and a .40sw receiver together (with quite a bit of machining) to make a .357sig sub2k?
-Colin
Has anyone tried taking a 9mm barrel and a .40sw receiver together (with quite a bit of machining) to make a .357sig sub2k?
-Colin
hi-point carbine
i have a hi-point. it is accurate and loads of fun. it has NEVER jammed with quality ammo. i bolted a cheap BSA red dot scope on it (scope mount was included with the carbine) and that even takes the fun to a higher level. for some reason, though, the recoil seems heavier that it should for a 9MM. no biggie, just an observation.
i hear several police officers carry them in their patrol cars. even hi-point advertises that in some of their magazine ads.
i have a hi-point. it is accurate and loads of fun. it has NEVER jammed with quality ammo. i bolted a cheap BSA red dot scope on it (scope mount was included with the carbine) and that even takes the fun to a higher level. for some reason, though, the recoil seems heavier that it should for a 9MM. no biggie, just an observation.
i hear several police officers carry them in their patrol cars. even hi-point advertises that in some of their magazine ads.
Pepe Domingo
Member
Maybe Mayberry RFD is carrying them in their patrol cars. The Hi-Point is not a serious police weapon and I would not like to see my officers running around with them. While reliable and a good bang for the buck, the Hi-Point does not have a wonderful safety system. That flimsy lever that they pass off as a safety does not belong on a serious defensive weapon. Mine bent easily and was extremely difficult to manipulate.
I also noticed the recoil. Maybe because it has an extra heavy bolt to make up for low design tolerances? It kicks more than the SUB, but nothing unmanageble. It is, after all, a 9mm rifle.
I also noticed the recoil. Maybe because it has an extra heavy bolt to make up for low design tolerances? It kicks more than the SUB, but nothing unmanageble. It is, after all, a 9mm rifle.
Third_Rail
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Whoa! The Hi-Point is only $120??? My local dealer here in MA said it would be "three to four hundred if I can get one"..... grr. Same guy tried to tell me that an 870 Marine Magnum was worth $1200. 
epijunkie67
Member
I own the Hi-Point
Brand new price was $160 before tax and background check. MSRP $199.
Weapon has a little weight but I think it helps make it a more stable platform. The mags are the same ones used in the Hi-Point 9mm pistols so you have one of those you can interchange.
I bought mine because I was looking for some inexpensive plinker. To that end it works well. Not my first choice as a primary defensive weapon but if money is tight it will certainly work well in that capacity.
Main downside for me is that the bolt doesn't lock to the rear on an empty mag. Of course that means there is one less thing to break on it so it depends on how you look at it.
Cleaning is a bit of a pain because you have to actually unscrew 3 bolts to get the weapon apart and have to use a hex headed wrench to do it.
Still, for $160 I think it is a great gun. Accurate, dependable, sized well.
Just my $0.02 worth
Brand new price was $160 before tax and background check. MSRP $199.
Weapon has a little weight but I think it helps make it a more stable platform. The mags are the same ones used in the Hi-Point 9mm pistols so you have one of those you can interchange.
I bought mine because I was looking for some inexpensive plinker. To that end it works well. Not my first choice as a primary defensive weapon but if money is tight it will certainly work well in that capacity.
Main downside for me is that the bolt doesn't lock to the rear on an empty mag. Of course that means there is one less thing to break on it so it depends on how you look at it.
Cleaning is a bit of a pain because you have to actually unscrew 3 bolts to get the weapon apart and have to use a hex headed wrench to do it.
Still, for $160 I think it is a great gun. Accurate, dependable, sized well.
Just my $0.02 worth
I am NOT placing my vote for either one, and most of the good and bad I've noticed about the two have already been mentioned...
But one thing to note IF you plan to use an optic on either...
Unless things have changed, the Sub2K scope mount is a 1" ring that attaches directly to the receiver and folds out of the way when the carbine is folded. Neat and all, if you're going to use a 1" optic... There were some complaints on www.KTOG.org about the "cheap" feel of this mount. I believe the description was "like a hose clamp on a door hinge" or something like that.
I have a Beretta Storm, and I like that I have a top picatinny rail to mount whatever wherever, but I also like that it uses Hi-caps (more fun for plinking)... If I didn't have the $$$ to buy the Storm, I think I'd have gone with the HiPoint, but it would have been CLOSE. I like the iron sights on the HiPoint better, and I like the rail instead of the fixed ring. After all, it's just a plinker.
But one thing to note IF you plan to use an optic on either...
Unless things have changed, the Sub2K scope mount is a 1" ring that attaches directly to the receiver and folds out of the way when the carbine is folded. Neat and all, if you're going to use a 1" optic... There were some complaints on www.KTOG.org about the "cheap" feel of this mount. I believe the description was "like a hose clamp on a door hinge" or something like that.
I have a Beretta Storm, and I like that I have a top picatinny rail to mount whatever wherever, but I also like that it uses Hi-caps (more fun for plinking)... If I didn't have the $$$ to buy the Storm, I think I'd have gone with the HiPoint, but it would have been CLOSE. I like the iron sights on the HiPoint better, and I like the rail instead of the fixed ring. After all, it's just a plinker.
I believe this thread has died twice, and has ressurected again!
I think I am leaning towards the SUB simply because the Hi Point is single stack and I know there will never be any mags above 10 rounds that don't portrude below the pistol grip...if only there were a double-stack Hi Point!
I think I am leaning towards the SUB simply because the Hi Point is single stack and I know there will never be any mags above 10 rounds that don't portrude below the pistol grip...if only there were a double-stack Hi Point!
"Looking at Sten and Uzi mags right now...maybe I can make one work."
I doubt it, since a STEN mag is too wide and an UZI is double feed, but if you could you might be violating the law banning manufacture of high cap magazines. BATFE says altering a hi-cap mag to fit in another gun is a no-no unless it will still work in the original gun.
Jim
I doubt it, since a STEN mag is too wide and an UZI is double feed, but if you could you might be violating the law banning manufacture of high cap magazines. BATFE says altering a hi-cap mag to fit in another gun is a no-no unless it will still work in the original gun.
Jim
Mannlicher
Member
Hi Point is just too ugly to be in my house. KelTec has a bad rep for their stuff not working right until its been back to the factory at least once for a 'fluff and buff', (what ever that is.) I would not own either of them.
I would sell the Mosin Nagant and use the money (yeah, all $60 bucks), for a down payment on a decent, modern rifle, in the AK or AR family, or better yet, a FAL, or M1A.
I would sell the Mosin Nagant and use the money (yeah, all $60 bucks), for a down payment on a decent, modern rifle, in the AK or AR family, or better yet, a FAL, or M1A.
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