HK because we love you! :)

[Pulse]

No, they have haters because they cater to military and law enforcement and leave us mere civilians as an after-thought. Take, for example, ANY of their rifles.

here i would like to add that geting a HK Rifle in europe is not very hard.
not many Stores carry them for price reasons and HK does not make a neutered version of the G36, but if you find a store with H&K Rifle and have all the needed Permit to get a fullauto Rifle, you can get a G36 without any problems.
a HK36C goes for about 2800 here, Consider that a Saber Defense Ar15 clone goes for 2500.

 

[jerkface11]

nowhere does the article say that it won't take pmags. it just says that it won't be able to swap lowers with AR-15s.

No it doesn't say it in the article. The 416 has an elongated mag well. So the curve of a P-Mag keeps it from working. I'm sure HK's $70 Crap-Mag will work though. At least for a little while.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

Read my post again, USGI's should work just fine in it,

I don't appreciate their attitude towards lowly civilians, and I think they massively over-price their products. They make quality guns. Then they sell them for almost twice what they are worth. And if HK feels like being nice, they might eventually release a "civilian approved" version of their weapons that even Sarah Brady wouldn't have a problem with

Their attitude is due to the .gov screwing them with laws

I don't see people here complaining of FN;s high prices when they sell the FiveSeven for $1,000 which is polymer,

Sarah Brady would hate the 556 I bet we could send the group an email and they would start a campaign to stop import they are not about stopping scary guns the want to stop all guns save for a few "privileged" people who can have them.

No, they have haters because they cater to military and law enforcement and leave us mere civilians as an after-thought. Take, for example, ANY of their rifles.

Again FEDERAL LAWS, the reason HK has hater is because people read that letter (which I have been told was a joke) and rode with it, BTW if you look at the said American manufacturers you will see the catering too.

 

[expvideo]

Their attitude is due to the .gov screwing them with laws

Cry me a F-ing river. Sig can manage to build a quality rifle. If they would just build them in the US, like everyone else, then they wouldn't have to worry about our import laws. But they don't want to do that because they don't care about the civilian market.

 

[againstthagrane]

I don't appreciate their attitude towards lowly civilians, and I think they massively over-price their products.

are you talking about colt? haha

Call it a hunch. You might notice that I up-ed my estimate from $3000 to $3500.

based on what? your expert opinion?
honestly i would MUCH rather pay $3000 for an HK than than $2500 for a noveske or sabre defense.

Well it would be the first of HKs "civilian approved" rifles that did accept regular mags.

yeah, so? it still will, no matter how much you want it not to.

I'll bet you $1, payable with PayPal, that the HK does not readily take standard AR-15 magazines without modification.

http://www.hk-usa.com/rifles_mr556_details.html

read the caption under the third picture. you can send the dollar you owe me to the NRA. somehow i don't think they'll ever get it. lol

That is a complete load of BS. Their fit and finish rivals Sig, Beretta, Glock, Kimber, etc. Sorry, but you're not in some exclusive club for having handled an HK. So telling us that it is leaps and bounds better than its competitors is pointless, because most of us already know that this is not true.

i own or have owned at least one of every gun you mentioned other than kimber. none of them other than sig can rival HK fit and finish. i'm talking about the quality of part when you take the gun apart not just external appearance. kimbers are pure garbage and they normally cost more than HKs.

No, they have haters because they cater to military and law enforcement and leave us mere civilians as an after-thought. Take, for example, ANY of their rifles.

your ignorance is shining through.

I don't think that's really a fair comparison. I think a better comparison would be a Ford Taurus and a Mercury Sable. They're the same car, but one of them has ever so slightly nicer features and costs more $$$.

another statement that proves you have no idea what you're talking about. taurus and mercury are made by the same company. so essentially they are the same car with different options. like comparing a springfield GI 1911 to a springfield loaded model. same gun, one has more "options".

ferraris and corvettes do not share one single component. sables and taurus share EVERYTHING other than rims/interior panels/exterior panels.

Yeah. Because they aren't plastic. Plastic guns are cheaper because they cost less to make. Name one other mainstream plastic gun that costs $750. Just one.

FN 5.7 at $1000. polymer costs more than even the finest gun grade steel anyways. i have metal and poly guns. i have no preference, people get too hung up on it.

i have an AR and i would still buy the 416, because i recognize a quality product. you just keep hating so there will be more for the rest of us.

btw, you shouldn't buy anything made by FNH or colt from now on. they focus too much on the military and hate civilians. how dare those jerks try to make money? the nerve...

 

[againstthagrane]

Cry me a F-ing river. Sig can manage to build a quality rifle. If they would just build them in the US, like everyone else, then they wouldn't have to worry about our import laws. But they don't want to do that because they don't care about the civilian market.

ok, this guy is a troll.

HK DID build a factory in the US that's how the 416 is coming out in the first place. man, you are totally ignorant. it took them a while, but they did it so what's your beef?

 

[AJD]

I'm glad to see this happen.

I won't buy one because of the cost but its always fun to see new, quality firearms that were not available brought to the general population.

 

[expvideo]

another statement that proves you have no idea what you're talking about. taurus and mercury are made by the same company. so essentially they are the same car with different options. like comparing a springfield GI 1911 to a springfield loaded model. same gun, one has more "options".

ferraris and corvettes do not share one single component. sables and taurus share EVERYTHING other than rims/interior panels/exterior panels.

Yeah, that was my point.

FN 5.7 at $1000.

And it is also massively overpriced.

ok, this guy is a troll.

HK DID build a factory in the US that's how the 416 is coming out in the first place. man, you are totally ignorant. it took them a while, but they did it so what's your beef?

If that's true, the rifle's incompatability with other ARs is not a government regulation. And that makes HK even worse.

Having a negative opinion about HK does not make me a troll. My points are just as valid as yours, and that's giving you some credit.

http://www.hk-usa.com/rifles_mr556_details.html

read the caption under the third picture. you can send the dollar you owe me to the NRA. somehow i don't think they'll ever get it. lol

OK, you're right. Give me an email address and send it yourself. I'm not going to have you calling me a liar because I can't prove I paid a dollar to the NRA. PM me.

 

[Old Dog]

againstthagrane says

your ignorance is shining through.

man, you are totally ignorant.

Ah, nothing like a good ol' fashioned intellectual debate, fueled with topical, researched and documented statements ...

New lows are being reached on THR (both sites) daily.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

kimbers are pure garbage and they normally cost more than HKs.

This /\.

No one is challenging their price point yeah I can get a POF upper colt lower (which is marked LEO only) for probably less than the 556 but I like the 556 looks and name better, the price point on the pistols is same too for a polymer pistol I could just get a Glock,

Anyone here familiar with Oberland AR's?

As for the factory it shows guts still going through with this even after Obama has been elected.

 

[hankdatank1362]

honestly i would MUCH rather pay $3000 for an HK than than $2500 for a noveske or sabre defense.

Have you ever dealt with HK customer service?

I know from first hand experience at Sabre that after-sale support is phenomenal, and have only heard good things about Noveske.

HK, I can't say the same.

polymer costs more than even the finest gun grade steel anyways.

Aren't Glock frames like $5 and some change to mold? Compare that with a forged SIG or 1911 frame.

 

[Kino74]

repair frequency in a sports car has to do with how hard it's driven. corvettes have better records because their MAIN buyers are casual fans. they buy them so they have something cute to drive to work when it's nice out. MOST ferrari's are driven hard and purchased by people who really have a respect for pedigree and performance. you obviously would rather eat bologna sandwiches every day. i mean, they'll keep you alive the same as a well balanced diet and they're cheap. right?

[/QUOTE

Uh no. Yo ugot that backwards. I know some Ferrari owners and the word poser comes to mind in quick order. Furthermore for those of us who spent time on a track, Vettes can and will walk a Ferrari. A Chevy small block is very easy and cheap to make very potent in short order. The Corvette may have a $10 interior and cheap parts but it works and runs. A buddy of mine owns a Ferrari and if he gets 20,000 miles without a complete engine rebuild, its a miracle. Even has to replace the timing belt. Yep a timing belt.

As to the rest of the thread dealing with HK being a victim of gun laws is just a bunch of nonsense. I'd love to hear how Arsenal of Bulgaria is selling preban style AKs and has anyone heard of FN? FN has not one but two non nuetered bullpups and is/has brought in the SCAR in non neutered form. The only product FN has that I don't see sold is their AR15s and given the numerous makers here, I can excuse them on that one.

And FN makes weapons the military ACTUALLY uses and in widspread numbers.

 

[ljnowell]

againstthagrane: Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, or are you looking for a weenie waving contest? Grow up.

 

[Gunnerpalace]

As to the rest of the thread dealing with HK being a victim of gun laws is just a bunch of nonsense.

No it is not I kindly state you read The GCA, and the 1989 import ban, and the 1994 import ban, and the Hughes Amendment. And the numerous state ban that State HK firearms by name. After getting pimped every time they brought something in when the idea of them putting a plant here probably seemed like a waste of time, but now they see something and are putting a plant even after Obama got elected.

Have you ever dealt with HK customer service?

That is a vague argument as well . I know it sucks but almost all CS does too, if you are a civilian and have a 6920 call Colt, how about Ruger with ordering parts? pretty much all CS sucks because dealing with the public is a pain.

 

[againstthagrane]

Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed, or are you looking for a weenie waving contest? Grow up.

haha, you're right. i was in a bad mood and i couldn't control myself.
sorry guys.

when i originally posted the article i did so to encourage a positive conversation about what i believe to be the premier piston driven 5.556 on the (future)market IMHO. instead, i got sucked into a pissing match.

 

[greenr18]

i thought there already was a civi 416 it just wasnt in the US yet

 

[expvideo]

when i originally posted the article i did so to encourage a positive conversation about what i believe to be the premier piston driven 5.556 on the (future)market IMHO. instead, i got sucked into a pissing match.

You mean all of us talking about how great HK is and how happy we are that they are finally allowing us lowly civilians to buy the rifle we've had to beg for years for*?

Sorry. Not everyone loves HK as much as you do.


*well, it's really a neutered civilian version, but close enough, right? I'm sure you think so.

 

[againstthagrane]

anyone who has a standard AR mag can un-neuter their 556 in about 1-7 seconds depending on skill level

 

[ljnowell]

haha, you're right. i was in a bad mood and i couldn't control myself.
sorry guys.

when i originally posted the article i did so to encourage a positive conversation about what i believe to be the premier piston driven 5.556 on the (future)market IMHO. instead, i got sucked into a pissing match.

Its easy to get suckered into them, I see it happen here all the time, and sometimes I do too. The internet will do that to ya.

 

[againstthagrane]

And FN makes weapons the military ACTUALLY uses and in widspread numbers.

according to wiki.

* Indonesia: Detasemen Jala Mengkara (Denjaka) is equipped with the HK416.[7]
* Netherlands: The Netherlands Army special forces unit Korps Commandotroepen selected the HK416 over other tested assault rifles to replace their Diemaco C8 carbines. The weapon is featured on several photos from the unit's recruitment day.[8] The HK416 is currently (2008) the standard assault rifle of the unit.
* Norway: On April 11, 2007, the Norwegian Ministry of Defence signed a contract for an initial order of 8,200 rifles to serve as the new standard service rifle for the armed forces.[9] The HK416 will replace the AG-3 that has been in use since 1967. The new rifle is slightly modified, with a different stock and pistol grip.[10] The deal also included the purchase of 6,500 MP7 submachine guns. Delivery began in March 2008. The first weapons are scheduled to reach soldiers by the end of 2008. Officers have already become familiar with the weapon and will soon be ready to instruct their soldiers. Groups that recruit people to INTOPS (International Operations) will receive priority, that includes the Norwegian Army 2nd Battalion, Telemark Battalion, Combat Service Support Battalion, Norwegian Army Engineer Battalion and the Norwegian Army Armoured Battalion. The 2nd Battalion, Engineer Battalion and Combat Service Support Battalion has already received the rifle and training.
* Poland: Adopted in small numbers as the primary weapon of GROM. Purchased both D10RS and D14.5RS variants that will replace current M4A1 clones made by Bushmaster and Knight's Armament Company.[11]
* Turkey: Turkish Army The Turkish Army has developed a Turkish version of the HK416 in co-operation with Heckler & Koch, Germany, named the Mehmetçik-1 [1]. MKE of Turkey has also currently produced over 9000 Mehmetçik-1 for testing and evaluation purposes and it is envisaged that the Turkish Army will replace all of its G3 rifles with the Mehmetçik-1 by 2010. This equates to a requirement of 500,000 Mehmetçik-1.
* United States: It is used by the U.S. Army's direct action group Delta Force (1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta),[12] various other United States Special Operations Command (USSOCOM) units including DEVGRU, and formerly, the US Army's Asymmetric Warfare Group. The latter has since had to turn in their HK416.[13]. It is also in use with various elite law enforcement units, including United States Capitol Police SWAT.

sorry, i just can't help myself.

You mean all of us talking about how great HK is and how happy we are that they are finally allowing us lowly civilians to buy the rifle we've had to beg for years for*?

yeah, a few years. i'm pretty sure it takes a little while to build a rifle factory from scratch. 3 years doesn't sound too unreasonable.

 

[jerkface11]

It's still a nonstandard ,overpriced ,piston AR. When it breaks you won't be able to get parts for it AND HK won't deal with you.

 

[Jaws]

And FN makes weapons the military ACTUALLY uses and in widspread numbers.

FN's case is slightly different. They have facilities in US and produce many of this "millitary like" rifles in US. The laws are different for something made here.
But FN too had to do certain things to make sure the civilian SCAR 16S won't be able to use millitary receivers, so civilians can't turn them into autos.
Because the SCAR is so modular this was part of the reason it took a while to get them ready for release.

 

[MachIVshooter]

i know it pisses you off that people who will be able to afford it will have an accurate and superbly reliable rifle that they will be happy with

Yeah, that's it

I have absolutely no problem paying for quality, and I own many firearms that equalled or exceeded you beloved HK's price points. What I won't do is pay a 100% premium for the name, which is exactly what HK charges. I'd put any of my S&W 3rd gens or M&P's up against a USP/P2000/P30/HK45 any day. Like I said, I sold my HK USP stainless .45 in order to buy a LNIB S&W 1006. The USP was bulky, blocky and the trigger guard rubbed my finger raw after a couple hundred rounds. The S&W 10mm is more pleasant to fire, more accurate, and generally more robust, with equal qaulity fit & finish.

I've never called HK firearms junk. But I've yet to handle or fire one that justified it's price tag.

You can have your 416, and for the same amount of money, I'll buy another Armalite M15 carbine, outfit it with the best optical sight and weapon light, and still have enough left over to buy two cases of ammo. I don't have a problem dropping three grand on a rifle, and I have in the past. But you can bet that it wasn't and never will be a gas-piston AR.

 

[WeedWacker]

Oh for crying out loud! Forget about price! Just do what I do: wait for a friend to buy it then use them to get your grubby hands on it for a few mags at the range

 

[CYANIDEGENOCIDE]

I don't own any H&K products. I had a chance to test drive a few of their pistols over the years and Im really not impressed. You can buy more accurate guns for the same price or less, you can buy more reliable guns for the same price or less.
In fact here is a test that pits the Glock 21 against the HK USP and Glock comes out on top. http://www.theprepared.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=90
In my opinion this just proves H&K can't make a better pistol than Glock but they are going to charge you for one.