HK P7-Wow!

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kBob,

I recall reading that one tough German outfit really hated to turn in their ,357 Magnums for 9mms. Most agencies it was an upgrade from .32, but not them.
I also saw a gunzine article that the Dutch bought a bunch of Walther P5s.
 
Most German LE chose to go with the P6 (SIG), mostly based on cost...even the Swiss went with the P6, but with the heel release

Other the GSG-9, the only other German agencies that I recall choosing the P7 were German Army Special Forces, Bavarian State Police and Lower Saxony Police
 
I know the french used a top end .357 revolver for their police and SWAT type units, not sure about Germany... I didn't think they really used any kind of revolver since the Reichsrevolver....
 
Some websites list GSG-9 having used S&W model 19s, for what it's worth.
 
Monac said:
I did a Google search on the words new jersey state police accidental discharge p7. One of the results was a link to the e-book version of Massad Ayoob's 2007 book "The Gun Digest Book of Combat Handgunnery". The link is VERY long, so I will not post it here. But in the book, Ayoob does mention the adoption of the HK P7 by the New Jersey State Police in 1984, but does NOT mention any accidental discharges in service with them. In the next paragraph, speaking of the gun in general and not New Jersey in particular, Ayoob remarks "Many instructors associated the design with a likelihood of accidental discharge." He does not elaborate on this.

I could not come up with any actual incidents of accidental discharge by the NJSP, but given how long the guns have been out of service, that does not mean much.
Click to expand...

Finding an incident will be rather tough, as there are were no reported incidences of a AD/ND in the thigh, as claimed earlier in the thread. NJSP carried P7M8's (and some P7M13s) until the pistols were starting to wear out. However, a real push to replace the P7s started after Trooper Gonzales was killed in a shootout with a robbery suspect. A lot of things happened during that incident, but it was discovered afterwards that the trooper's P7 had a broken firing pin spring. NJ troops rallied around the fact that they were carrying 15+ year old firearms, and made the claim that Gonzales' pistol ceased to function during a firefight because of its time in service. That got the ball rolling (pushed along with some disobedience by NJ officers) towards the P7's replacement.

So, S&W eventually got a much less costly contract for the Model 99 in 2001 to replace the P7. And the Model 99 turned out to be a pistol that the NJ troopers really did not like (including some troubling reliability issues). So NJSP ordered some more P7M8's to fill the gap of P7s that needed to be retired. But HK could not deliver as fast as NJSP wanted, and some of the P7s that arrived allegedly had some QC issues (sights that were a bit off).

Sig ended up getting the contract from NJSP to supply p228s to replace the P7. In 2014/2015, the p228 was replaced with the p229 Enhanced Elite in 9mm.
 
"...and made the claim that Gonzales' pistol ceased to function during a firefight because of its time in service."

Just to point out a little considered fact... If it did cease to function, it was after he fired 7 rounds.
 
usp9 said:
"...and made the claim that Gonzales' pistol ceased to function during a firefight because of its time in service."

Just to point out a little considered fact... If it did cease to function, it was after he fired 7 rounds.
Click to expand...

Just to point out the actual facts, the above is not correct. A magazine was discovered on the driver's side floor of the vehicle beneath the officer. It had one or two rounds left in the magazine. The P7 (which had been fired) itself was found with a fully loaded magazine. It was clear to most troopers that the officer fired at least five rounds, and then the pistol malfunctioned. The immediate suspicion among Troopers was that the Gonzales' then dumped the first mag, loaded another, but the pistol would still not fire. Tragically, he was then killed by the assailant.

The pistol was later discovered to have a broken firing pin spring. Hence the uproar among the NJSP rank and file about the older pistols they were carrying, and how a 15 year old part may have failed, causing Trooper Gonzales' P7 to malfunction.
 
wojownik said:
Just to point out the actual facts, the above is not correct. A magazine was discovered on the driver's side floor of the vehicle beneath the officer. It had one or two rounds left in the magazine. The P7 (which had been fired) itself was found with a fully loaded magazine. It was clear to most troopers that the officer fired at least five rounds, and then the pistol malfunctioned. The immediate suspicion among Troopers was that the Gonzales' then dumped the first mag, loaded another, but the pistol would still not fire. Tragically, he was then killed by the assailant.

The pistol was later discovered to have a broken firing pin spring. Hence the uproar among the NJSP rank and file about the older pistols they were carrying, and how a 15 year old part may have failed, causing Trooper Gonzales' P7 to malfunction.
Click to expand...
How is it not correct? A P7M8 hold 9 rounds. If 1 was left in the magazine and 1 cleared from the chamber, then the trooper fired 7.
 
Had the opportunity to squeeze (or more truthfully, provocatively grope) an H&K P7 today at the gun show.

I was super impressed how lightweight and compact it was for a 9x19mm handgun. It was pretty well worn with lots of finish wear and had a price tag of $1700. No, I did not buy it. I'm sure these are very neat guns to fire but they're too rich for my blood!
 
RX-79G said:
How is it not correct? A P7M8 hold 9 rounds. If 1 was left in the magazine and 1 cleared from the chamber, then the trooper fired 7.
Click to expand...

It's late and my gray matter is misfiring this evening. NJSP confirmed two rounds in the mag, one on the floor (cleared), so the malfunction happened on round 6. Either way, whether 6/9 or 7/9, something very bad happened which is still not totally clear to this day - but it was confirmed the P7 had a broken spring.
 
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Dr.Rob said:
I had never heard of nor seen a P7 in 45.
Click to expand...
There's been an article about it on HKPro for the last decade or so. It, like the compact P9S, was a prototype. Since .45 is low pressure, the gun used a hydraulic buffer instead of a gas delay to slow down the slide.
 
p7m7left.jpg


p7m7right.jpg


HKGray-M7grip.jpg


I have to admit that I've only shot a mag out of it and it was during a H&K LE presentation
 
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