Hk p7

[Quat]

Hello, a while back I had asked about the HK P7 and a few other smallish pistols for carry. I was going to reply to that thread, but it appears to be out of date.

I bit the bullet so to speak, and bought a P7 (PSP). So to speak, because there aren't any around that I could try. I figured I could resell it fairly easily if I didn't like it. It was a very good deal and came with a set of Karl Nil grips, it looks very good with them on.

I'm not big on the 9mm cartridge, which was kind of a hold up for me since I was interested in the p7 as a defensive tool, but I realized I was fairly happy carrying a 5 shot 38 special.

It is heavy, I suppose, but that doesn't really bother me, though I wish it was slightly more barrel heavy. Outside of that, its a great pistol so far. It points well for me; squeezing it to make ready and to release the slide/releasing it to uncock all feel very natural. The size is just right, it feels like a full size pistol while not being very large. My hand stops right at the bottom of the grip on a full size 1911 and on the P7 (the p7 is shorter by a small amount), while I get pinky dangle off an officers frame. I do wish the trigger was moved forward somewhat.

I put about 70 rounds through it, crummy federal ammo the vast majority, and a few old silvertips, it failed to cycle one old silvertip, I am not sure what happened there. At about 30 yards the federal ammo didn't group very well, but it shot a slightly sub 2" group with 3 silvertips which is about as well as I shoot.

Thanks everyone who took the time to give feedback on theirs, I think this will be with me for a long time. Time to spend some money on a good holster or two.

 

[LiquidTension]

I had a P7 briefly, they shoot very well. Unfortunately it was one of the guns that got sold to finance college but I'll pick up another one if I ever find a deal.

 

[gotboostvr]

I love the trigger on mine, and double taps are automatic.

The squeeze cocker was surprisingly easy to get used to.

I really wish someone made a poly framed one in 45.

 

[johnnydollar]

The P7 is, for me, the finest concealed carry gun made. Accurate, reliable, slim, flat, and compact, it shoots like a service pistol and carries like a compact. As to leather, anything from Matt Del Fatti will work well, as will the Milt Sparks Versa Max II. I also like the IWB#3 from Kramer Leather, and the Stronghold Phoenix (designed by Tim Thurner of TT Gunleather) from Occidental Leather. The Alessi CQC/S is a fine OWB holster as well. Congratulations on your purchase and best of luck with it in the future!
JD

 

[Onmilo]

Don't shoot silvertips through a P7
The aluminum bullet jacket material can shave off and clog the barrel gas port.
Same goes for hard cast lead bullets and copper washed lead bullet ammo, avoid these loads for your P7
Stick with good quality ammo tailored on the hotter side and avoid shooting bullets heavier than 125 grains as the gun is not designed to function with heavy bullet ammo. HTH

 

[HKGuns]

Watch yourself, proceed with caution. One HK will lead to another, then another and so on.....Congrats, practice with it as you'll find it is one of the most accurate and natural pointing pistols you'll ever hold. I ran my M8 in IDPA and the only drawback to it in those games was the magazine limit. Otherwise it was excellent at getting into action and pulling off double-taps.

I did have one incident where I racked the slide back and exerted upward pressure and the whole slide came off and flew into the dirt in front of me. That got quite a few laughs from the folks watching. The SO didn't know what to do.

 

[VA27]

Don't worry about new SilverTips, they haven't had aluminum jackets on the 9mm since the 80's. Do stay away from lead reloads.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I did have one incident where I racked the slide back and exerted upward pressure and the whole slide came off and flew into the dirt in front of me. That got quite a few laughs from the folks watching. The SO didn't know what to do.

You should avoid putting pressure on the takedown button when racking the slide

 

[usp9]

Stick with good quality ammo tailored on the hotter side and avoid shooting bullets heavier than 125 grains as the gun is not designed to function with heavy bullet ammo.

Where did you see this about bullet weight? The manual says nothing about heavy rounds, but it does say don't shoot light rounds less then 100 gr. I've shot 147gr. with no problems whatsoever.

 

[Onmilo]

I didn't see problems with 147 grain ammo, I experienced problems with 147 grain ammo.
Misfeeds, sluggish cycle, erratic ejection.
It was good quality stuff too.

 

[johnnydollar]

Where did you see this about bullet weight? The manual says nothing about heavy rounds, but it does say don't shoot light rounds less then 100 gr. I've shot 147gr. with no problems whatsoever.

This is an old debate. The gas system on the P7 was designed to run with 124 gr bullets, period. Shoot them if you want, but it is not recommended. There was a rather long and very contentious debate on this topic over on The Cult of the P7 some months ago if anyone is interested.

 

[tominct]

I'm not generally a fan of HKs, but I love the P7. Don't own one yet, the right deal's never come along, but the first time I shot one it was like magic.

It's a very accurate pistol, and very controllable, due in part to the low height of the barrel axis above the hand.

Plus, as soon as you let it out of your hand, it goes on safe.

Aside from the price they usually get, what's not to like about them?

 

[Onmilo]

What is not to like?
Spare magazines are expensive
Replacement grip options are expensive
The gas system requires frequent cleaning and maintenance
The guns break springs
It is getting harder to find replacement sights for the P7s, M8s and M13s are easier to locate sights but the other issues apply as well and again, the replacements are expensive.

I have no plans to sell the P7 I own but like the Colt Single Action Army, the guns aren't the "all that" that cult followers make them out to be.

 

[Quat]

Thanks for the warning about the silver tips, the ones I currently have are the first generation. It was the only 9mm ammo I possessed outside of the cheap stuff I picked up on the way home with it. I'd heard not to use cast and bought a bunch of plated to reload. I can pick my spent brass out of a pile of other identical 9mm cases. In the process of figuring out which more modern ammo to try for carry.

It keeps growing on me more and more, its just right is how I can sum it up. Size, function, just pretty much everything.

It would be more appropriate to ask about holsters in that forum?

 

[rellascout]

What is not to like?
Spare magazines are expensive
Replacement grip options are expensive
The gas system requires frequent cleaning and maintenance
The guns break springs
It is getting harder to find replacement sights for the P7s, M8s and M13s are easier to locate sights but the other issues apply as well and again, the replacements are expensive.

I have no plans to sell the P7 I own but like the Colt Single Action Army, the guns aren't the "all that" that cult followers make them out to be.

Winner winner chicken dinner!!!!!

I do not plan on selling my P7 but it is not one of my favorite pistols. It is accurate but it has a lot of negatives working against it.

Its one of a kind, in my collection at least, manual of arms is the biggest thing working against it IMHO.

 

[Walther P99]

Had one of these several years ago, loved it, but my hand was not strong enough to hold the cocking lever down for very long. While shooting it, my hand would involuntarily relax and when I pulled the trigger...nothing.

Got bad enough that I had actually had dreams about confronting an intruder with the gun, pulling the trigger and getting nothing.. I then knew it was best to sell for something more conventional.

 

[usp9]

The gas system on the P7 was designed to run with 124 gr bullets. Shoot them if you want, but it is not recommended.

Not to argue the point, but please cite the source from HK that says "not designed", or "not recommended". I've looked and can't find anything except internet chatter from internet experts. If you've found something from HK that answers the question, I'd certainly like to read it, then conceed the point.

 

[Onmilo]

My P7 user manual states that bullet weights of at least 100 grains and ONLY jacketed bullet ammunition be used.
Remember the guns and the manual were printed and manufactured long before heavy 9mm ammunition came on the market

Standard German NATO ball ammo uses a 124 grain full metal jacket bullet and the German State Police were fond of a cartridge known as the BAT(BlitzAction Trauma) round which was a 105 grain hollowpoint driven at hyper velocity.
I think this ammunition is now known as the THV load in Europe.

 

[Ankeny]

I carried a P7M8 for several years. They are a nice pistol and I wish I would have kept it just for the cool factor.

 

[righteoushoot]

Not to argue the point, but please cite the source from HK that says "not designed", or "not recommended". I've looked and can't find anything except internet chatter from internet experts. If you've found something from HK that answers the question, I'd certainly like to read it, then conceed the point.

Not sure if this helps the "Discussion" or not, but it helped me make my decision.

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handgun-talk/119413-p7-147-grain-ammo.html

G3Kurz seems to give a convincing argument. Your decision in the end though.

Good luck.

 

[usp9]

Not sure if this helps the "Discussion" or not, but it helped me make my decision.

Thanks for the link. The one post that really caught my eye was #55, made by Bruce Gray, in which he says;

"Hi! I saw this thread and thought I'd add my three cents. As HK-USA's factory sponsored shooter in the mid-1980's I had a lot of practical experience with P-7's, particularly the M13's we ran in competition and demos. (I had fired at least 200,000 rounds through P7's during that period and have had the orthopedic surgeries to prove it.) I recall a meeting with Dr. Deltgen, Herr Shumacher and Herr Weldley (sp?) in which the issue of heavy bullets and cycling came up in technical discussion. The fact that we were successfully running 175 PF loads through M13's loaded with heavy bullets was of interest to them. I recall the opinion being expressed that the 147's then coming into vogue were likely to casue issues with magazine timing in stock guns, and that changes were being considered to attenuate these issues. I don't recall HK ever issuing a directive warning against this ammo, but I do know that changes to feedlips in the M8 and different magazine springs were introduced, ostensibly to deal with this issue. I do not believe that firing of standard-pressure 147's will negatively affect the service life of an otherwise correct and feshly-sprung M8 or M13. If it works, good for you. Thank you for letting me revisit old memories a bit. That was a fun time, other than the permanent nerve damage from recoil. -Bruce "

Sounds like 147gr works in The P7 to me. Shoot what you want, but please don't use the phrase "HK says or recommends not to" as the reason not to shoot 147gr ammo. They don't. They do have prohibition on light rounds and lead... these for a reason.

 

[rellascout]

What does Bruce Gray know about German Pistols?????

 

[mmitch]

I'm big on mine:



Mike

 

[HKGuns]

Sounds like 147gr works in The P7 to me. Shoot what you want, but please don't use the phrase "HK says or recommends not to" as the reason not to shoot 147gr ammo. They don't. They do have prohibition on light rounds and lead... these for a reason.

Looks like you read what you wanted in that thread. :banghead:

G3Kurtz specifically said on at least 3 separate occasions in that thread that it would cause problems in less than perfectly working guns and that the gun was designed to shoot >100grain and <147grain 9mm ammunition. He further said that a perfectly running pistol could fail to run properly at any time. + He updated the manual to include the warning about 147 grain ammunition.

 

[johnnydollar]

Not to argue the point, but please cite the source from HK that says "not designed", or "not recommended". I've looked and can't find anything except internet chatter from internet experts. If you've found something from HK that answers the question, I'd certainly like to read it, then conceed the point.

I didn't intend to start an argument on this one. Anyone who has read all 13 or so pages of that argument over on the HKPRO forum is--hopefully-as tired of it as I am. That the P7 was not designed for the 147 grn round is not in debate. It has been clearly stated time and again that the P7 was designed around the 124 grn NATO spec round. As to "HK" not recommending the practice, I'll admit that I don't have a source for that admonishment. G3Kurz does not recommend it and that's good enough for me. I hope I haven't raised anyone's hackles; if I have, it was not my intention, and I apologize for so doing.