HK P7-Wow!

[Rock185]

I've owned two or three and still have the P7M8 I bought new back in the '80s. Small but very solid feeling little pistols. I've never shot it much, but have tried a variety of ammo. Flawless reliability. I have occasionally been able to shot groups with it as small as with my Swiss or German P210s. Just easier for me to accomplish small groups with the full sized guns. But the intrinsic accuracy is sure there.

OK Speedo, They're actually terrible

 

[9mmepiphany]

They both look like something out of the U.N.C.L.E. Museum!

They are from The Return of the Man from UNCLE.

You can tell by the non-functional extended magazines....wrong angle of insertion into the frame

 

[Panzerschwein]

Neat guns, but too valuable and expensive to afford these days.

 

[bannockburn]

9mmepiphany

They are from The Return of the Man from UNCLE.

That's what I thought. I really liked the original P-38 carbines they use to have, though the P7s were certainly more than up for the part in the new version. Open Channel D!

 

[ozarkhillbilly]

I still use one of mine for a daily CCW, they are fantastic guns.

 

[Nuclear]

Accurate, actually very simple to use, but the prices now are out of this world!

So glad I bought one when they were affordable (except for the magazines).

They are a little heavy for carry, and the mechanism is a bit complicated.

I love mine.

 

[Havok7416]

I apparently picked mine up for quite a deal (well under $1000). To top it off, I have a 4-digit s/n. I have had some problems with one part, but the gun itself is fantastic.

 

[Tirod]

Yes, the GB asking prices are pretty high. They are now in the province of the well healed collector, like $80,000 for a 69 Chevelle 396. People who never owned one and passed them up years ago now have disposable income and they are seen as a "Rolex" gun for carry.

While that might seem to preclude making new ones - they sell plenty of $1,100 1911's, don't they? The issue with the expense of the P7 was the slide, not the frame. The squeeze cocker parts are cheap to stamp out compared to the milled frame which cost more than a complete Glock, and it was noted back then, too. Otherwise, it was a fixed barrel with no tilting links, ramps or other complicated timing that forced a close watch on fit to get reliable function. It's just a gas delay with the piston pinned to the slide. Not that hard to make.

No one ever tried to explain why the slide was so expensive - It's a striker fired gun, Glock got it cheap enough and the barrel lug locks into the ejection port. That requires more precision. Walther recently came out with a gas delay pistol but then used the current trend in polymer styling and I rarely read about it in posts anymore. Apparently there is a rush to the bottom and its taking styling down with it, look what Ruger did to the new LCP II. If it goes much further Kel Tec or Diamondback will start being collected for their restrained good looks.

Nope, not selling the farm to buy a P7 at these rates, if one came around at the reasonable price of $675 then it would be worth it. Not going to happen now as they have become boutique antiques for show and tell.

 

[Pilot]

I have a pristine P7M8 that I rarely shoot anymore due to its value, but I do carry my BMI surplus P7 PSP. However, those are getting pricey also. They are fantastic pistols, and I actually like the squeeze cocker mechanism.

 

[Michael Tinker Pearce]

9mmepiphany

They both look like something out of the U.N.C.L.E. Museum!

Exactly my thought!

 

[Speedo66]

OK Speedo, They're actually terribleView attachment 225799

Thanks, I needed that. lol

 

[Jim K]

I am going to come down on the negative side. First, pictures are deceiving - the P7 is a BIG, heavy gun, not the small pocket pistol those who have seen only photos seem to think it is. But it works differently. It was one of sevral guns produced to meet the requirements of a West German state for a poliic service pistoll that would avoid the "mistakes" of previous designs. The mechanism is not necessarily bad, but different enough that its handling and functioning is different from anything else on the market at the time. If the P7 was the only pistol you had, you could learn to use it. But to someone who used many guns, H&K created a nightmare that went against the training and instinct for using other guns. Example: to keep the gun cocked, it is necessary to keep constant pressure on the grip safety,, and it requires a hard and constant squeeze to do that, unlike the easy grip safety of the 1911.

If pressure is relaxed, even for an instant, the gun reverts to a hard squeeze and trigger pull, even if the firing pin had been cocked previously.
I could go on, but that is one example of the gun's unique handling characteristics. In a gun fight, there is no time to think about how to do this or that or to remember how the gun you have is different and what has to be done to make it fire.

Yes, I have one; It is well made, well thought out, and (to me) highly dangerous; a gun you have to figure out how to use is not good in an emergency situation.

Jim

 

[RX-79G]

First, pictures are deceiving - the P7 is a BIG, heavy gun, not the small pocket pistol those who have seen only photos seem to think it is.

A P7M8 is 6.73" long, 5.04" high, 1.14" at the widest and weighs 28 oz. I'll leave it to everyone else to decide if that is large or heavy, but it has about the same dimensions as a SIG P239 while being narrower, 1.5 oz lighter and having a barrel .5" longer than the SIG.


I found transitioning to a P7 much more intuitive because it is so different from other guns. I found going from other guns to a Sig much more challenging because of the backwards frame controls.


The cocking lever popping to decock is not something that anyone has problems with. It is so easy to keep compressed that any one of your three fingers will hold it. But if you do release, you simply recock it - which can be done before, during or after pulling the trigger.

 

[9mmepiphany]

First, pictures are deceiving - the P7 is a BIG, heavy gun, not the small pocket pistol those who have seen only photos seem to think it is. But it works differently. It was one of sevral guns produced to meet the requirements of a West German state for a poliic service pistoll that would avoid the "mistakes" of previous designs.

I'm not sure how you define BIG, but the P7 is much the same size as its competition the Walther P5 and SIG P6...while sitting lower in the hand and retaining a 4" barrel. It is about the same size as a Kahr K9 with a 1/2" longer slide

Example: to keep the gun cocked, it is necessary to keep constant pressure on the grip safety,, and it requires a hard and constant squeeze to do that, unlike the easy grip safety of the 1911.

We must define hard differently also. Once depressed the cocking lever only requires about 4lbs of pressure to remain cocked...less than the trigger pull on a Glock trigger

 

[JohnBiltz]

I think Jim K has it right,

A P7M8 is 6.73" long, 5.04" high, 1.14" at the widest and weighs 28 oz.

A Glock 19 is 7.3 inches long 4.99 high, 1.18 wide and weighs 23.5 oz when loaded. When concealing, barrel length is the least important factor.

 

[9mmepiphany]

4.99 high, 1.18 wide

So you're calling .05" taller and .04" narrower, significant enough to be referred to as BIG(ger)?

The P7 has the same length barrel as the G19 in a slide that is .57" shorter

 

[usp9]

Kahr T9 and P7. Real close in every way... weight, barrel, capacity of 8+1, height, and striker fired.

 

[RX-79G]

I think Jim K has it right,

A Glock 19 is 7.3 inches long 4.99 high, 1.18 wide and weighs 23.5 oz when loaded. When concealing, barrel length is the least important factor.

Yeah, and a polymer frame Sig P320 Compact is 25.8 oz, an SP2022 is 29 oz.

It isn't that the P7 is heavy, but that the Glock is about the lightest compact firearm available. Considering that compact 9mm firearms range in weight from 20 oz up to about 34 oz, a 28 oz gun seems moderate in weight.

Barrel length isn't a criteria for concealment, overall length is. The point in mentioning the P7's barrel length is that you get the added velocity from .5" extra barrel with zero impact on concealability.

At the time, the P7M8 directly replaced the G19 I had. It did everything better, including concealing.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Not to say that there aren't BIG P7s,

There is the P7M7 which was chambered in .45ACP

 

[9mmepiphany]

Kahr T9 and P7. Real close in every way... weight, barrel, capacity of 8+1, height, and striker fired.

That is an excellent comparison

 

[ttarp]

The squeeze cocker requires about 12-14 lbs of pressure to initially cock the firing pin, only 2-4 lbs to maintain. Not that big a deal, if you're holding on with a death grip, you're doing it wrong and need to either practice with and put the least bit of effort into learning the pistol, or go back to something more conventional.

Its not for everyone, thats a fact.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Massad Ayoob used to call the P7 a jealous mistress and he wasn't wrong.

In return for the requirement to learn how to use it. it was likely the safest striker fired pistol available (blocked striker if you let go), very accurate (fixed barrel), and very reliable (will continue to eject cases without a working extractor). The slide can become more difficult to retract as fouling builds up in the gas chamber, but the pistol will continue to function when fired

 

[wojownik]

The P7 was "love at first squeeze" for me. I was very surprised what I could do with that pistol in terms of accuracy - after my first 8 rounds with the P7, I looked at the tiny group on the target and literally exclaimed "how the (heck) did I do that." It's definitely not everybody's cup of tea - its is an oddball - but it is the only HK handgun I actually like. I picked up my PSP for under $700 a few years ago - I could not afford to replace it now.

 

[JohnBiltz]

So you're calling .05" taller and .04" narrower, significant enough to be referred to as BIG(ger)?

The P7 has the same length barrel as the G19 in a slide that is .57" shorter

I don't consider a Glock 19 a small gun. Its on the smaller side for a service sized pistol. Which is what the German police bought it for, a service pistol. I would not care to carry one everyday all day which is why I don't.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I don't consider a Glock 19 a small gun. Its on the smaller side for a service sized pistol...I would not care to carry one everyday all day which is why I don't.

Ah, okay that makes more sense.

My choice in a general carry gun is a bit larger, usually a S&W M&P9 or SIG 320c. My service sized gun is the G34

When dressing more formally, I'll usually go with a Springfield EMP or the P7. So the P7 is the smallest primary carry gun I use. As a BUG, a Kahr CW9 has replaced my S&W 642

Which is what the German police bought it for, a service pistol.

Actually the P5, P6, and P7 were adopted to replace the commonly issued Walther PP. They chose the 9 x 19 mm as an upgrade to the 7.65 x 17 mm (.32 ACP)